Talk:Hellmuth Kolbe

Hellmuth Kolbe
Hi Myrtlegroggins Please explain why you changed the Hellmuth Kolbe article. Regards, Marcel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schneidex (talk • contribs) 10:10, 20 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Marcel,

Certainly. There were a few different reasons: the article came up on a list of articles needing copyediting and so I was working to be able to remove that tag; secondly, the layout and the tone needed to be more encyclopaedic (for example, there was too much information in the image captions); and thirdly, one could argue as to how much detail on the subject is appropriate but I hope the article is in a good basic shape for future improvements. I think there were some parts that were lacking appropriate citations. Was there something in particular which concerned you? Please let me know so we can continue to improve the article, Myrtle.Myrtlegroggins (talk) 11:03, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Myrtlegroggins One can argue about every article. This is no excuse. My version was based on interviews with many people and was supported by them, especially by Mrs. Kolbe and the Kolbe family, and other experts in audio recording and technology. It is now a castrated article where many important items are missing. Everything was carefully cited, btw. It seems to me (and others) your interest is more in formally nice looking articles than in those containing valuable information. In this case we all prefer no article at all over just nice looking ones. Marcel — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schneidex (talk • contribs) 17:59, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Marcel, I am going to move our discussion to the Hellmuth Kolbe article talk page so it will be archived in the correct space.Myrtlegroggins (talk) 07:45, 21 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Hello again.

When I read your reply, I sensed you are feeling some anger and frustration and I am sorry if that is the case. There are a few things we can look at in order to move forward. When I first saw the article, this was its set of tags for improvement:

So, I am not alone in thinking the article needed improvement. This is also reflected in its C grading in terms of quality. Perhaps you could have a look at what those tags might refer to in relation to this article. We can also ask the bio project group to take another look and give some guidance.

Secondly, you mention that the information you put in the article was from interviews. But, the key thing is whether that information has been published anywhere else - is it a secondary or a primary source? Reading here may help explain some of my editing.

I think from here there are two choices - you could revert the article back to how you had it before I started the edit (I would not change anything again) but that would leave it open to other major copyedits in due course and discussion with other editors who might not be greatly open to collaboration or we could work towards reintroducing information together with the appropriate tone, layout, citations and so on. I'd also be open to this.

Let me know what you think. Regards again, Myrtle. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 08:17, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Myrtlegroggins, All of the persons who knew Hellmuth Kolbe and even have worked with him are appalled about your non-constructive, incompetent and fraudulent intrusion in this Bio about him. I am speaking in the name of Mrs. Ursula Kolbe, her two sons and their families, of Hans Leonhard (a longtime partner of Kolbe), of Paul Zwicky who knew him well, of Walter Stutz who worked with him, of August P. Villiger, ex-director of CBS records Switzerland, and of Markus Erne and his colleagues from the Audio Engineering Society – in particular Jim Brown – who wrote the Eulogy in JAES 2002. All of them would never interfere without consultation with the people concerned and rewrite articles written by others and rewrite them according to their pleasure and obviously with the intention of showing how profound they are in corrupting the work of others. This is plagiarism in its purest form and clearly shows the character of such a person. We can only repeat: We do not approve such behavior and would rather have no article in Wikipedia about Hellmuth Kolbe then such an unfriendly rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schneidex (talk • contribs) 08:17, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Dear Marcel,

I have read very carefully what you have said and again I am deeply sorry you are upset. There are, however, some basic tenants upon which WP is founded. Articles do not 'belong' to any one person or group of people; it is for all to reach a consensus for steps towards continuous improvement. Also the article should aspire to a neutral encyclopaedic tone. Furthermore, Wikipedians always assume that other people edit in good faith. In this case, the article had and still has some deficits. At the very least I was able to remove the need for copy edit tag which was my good intention.

It would seem to me that what you are really looking for is a memorial to honour your friend. That is something very admirable indeed but perhaps Wikipedia is not the best place to do that. You call the article a "bio" about him but that is where we differ in opinion. It is not to be a biography, it is to be an article for reference in an encyclopaedia, something very different.

If you were to create an official Hellmuth Kolbe website, for example, with all the personal information you have presented in the way you and Mr Kolbe's family would see fit, then that I believe could be used as a secondary source for proper citations in the WP article. (Last night, I did search for good secondary sources for the article but sadly could find very few.)

Why not ask the appropriate project groups for their advice and opinions? I would be happy to be guided in that way. I am also happy to discuss any specific information you feel should be reincorporated. Regards, Myrtle. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 11:50, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

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