Talk:Helsinki/Archive 1

older comments
If someone has info on the origin of the name "Helsinki", I'd be interested to know. - Quirk 18:13, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * The Swedish name for Helsinki is Helsingfors, and there are other places named Helsing-something in Scandinavia. I think they share a common ancestry, but I don't have a clue what the original "Helsing" is.   &mdash; J I P | Talk 18:15, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * A rivulet (an å) was in the 14th ct known as Helsingå. It was a waterway (which was the only good ways in those days) between Tavastia and the Gulf of Finland. A church-village was established there, close to its mouth. -fors means rapid. Helsingfors was later moved some kilometers from the actual rapid for reasons I've forgotten. Around year 1900, the town Helsingfors, that had been the Grand Duchy's capital for some 80 years by then, due to urbanization became the predominantly Finnish-speaking town Helsinki. /Tuomas 09:36, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * The area, sparsely populated after earlier viking raids, was settled by people from the Swedish province of Helsingia (in Swedish Hälsingland, or especially earlier also Helsingland, which meant something like "holy land") in the 12th century, after Finland was concured by Sweden. Therefore the Parish of "Helsinge" (was known in Finnish "Helsingin maalaiskunta", in Swedish "Helsinge", the Parish of Helsinki, as opposed to "Helsingin kaupunki", in Swedish "Helsingfors" the "City of Helsinki".) When the city of Helsingfors was founded, it was founded beside the rapids (in Swedish fors) of the river Vantaa, in the Parish of Helsinge, therefore Helsingfors, Helsinge rapids. Later, when the City of Helsinki grew quickly after the war in 1940's-1960's, large parts of the Parish of Helsinki were annexed to it. However, also the population of the Parish grew, and it was first raised to a borough ("kauppala", I think borough is the closest translation, or maybe a market town) in 1972 and then to a city in 1974. As there couldn't be two cities with the same name, it was renamed as "Vantaa" in 1972 after the river flowing through it.
 * There is the Norse god Hel, mabye there is some sort of connection to her in the namesake of the Finnish Capital?

Demographics
There is no demographics section in this article, so, could somebody to write it? I would like to know is the Finnish or Swedish language dominant in Helsinki? User:PANONIAN
 * I will be writing a demographics section at some point (unless someone else writes one first, of course). Meanwhile, approximately 87% of the population speak Finnish, 6.3% Swedish and the remaining 6.7% other languages. --KFP 15:02, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Buildings and structures in Helsinki
Should a separate category Category:Buildings and structures in Helsinki be created? It could be a subcategory of both Category:Helsinki and Category:Buildings and structures in Finland. There's no need to create further subcategories for different types of buildings and structures in Helsinki, as that would be overcategorisation. &mdash; J I P | Talk 10:37, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I see this has already been done. There are also separate categories for Espoo, Jakobstad, Tampere and Turku, do we need subcategories for them as well? &mdash; J I P | Talk 17:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I have created three subcategories for Turku. The other three cities seem to have too few articles to warrant subcategorisation. &mdash; J I P | Talk 19:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

IAAF World Championships in Athletics
It should be mentioned that Helsinki has hosted the World Championships twice: 1983 and (currently running) 2005

article improvements
I think there's quite a bit of things that need to be changed in this article... allthough there is the needed information it is not as wel lcomposed as other similar articles about other cities...

A few things i noted:

Economy of helsinki
The link under economy of helsinki leads to "helsinki ICT and digital media culture", what's up with that? i know there are some IT-companies in Helsinki but still that has very little to do with Helsinki's economy! maybe the whole heading should be removed unless something regarding the economy is not written there.

Of course there is allot to write about the economy in helsinki, which at the moment isn't very good due to the "kuntaverouudistus" some years back.

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, i removed it from teh headings. Someone with the rights might want to remove the main article too. Gillis 19:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

architechture vs. culture
Under the heading "culture" about three fourths of the text is about Helsinki's architecture... maybe this should be another heading? and something mroe written about cultural events etc. in the city?

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, i changed this Gillis 19:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia vs. wikitravel
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a travel guide, that's what wikitravel's for. So maybe the "sites of intresest" part should be re-written to at least not contain clauses such as "If you are into architecture, Temppeliaukion kirkko is worth seeing. Built inside of stone, this unconventional church is regularly visited by tourists.".

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Education and universities
Why can't universities in Helsinki be a subheading of education in Helsinki? and also, universities is the wrong word when AMK-schools are also lsited, the correct term is institutions of higher education or something like that is it not?

Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay, i changed this Gillis 19:13, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

A doubt: "Half of the 41 upper secondary schools are private or state-owned." Who owns the other half? - sooraj 11 June 2006


 * Well my guess would be here that they are owned by the municipality of helsinki(which basically is state owned), atleast most gymnasiums are administered by "helsingin kaupungin opetusvirasto" while my guess would be that practical schools are directly state owned. But this is just a guess. And makes the text unclear any way you read it. In Helsinki or Finland as a whole there aren't many private schools "for the rich kids" as you might find in the states, due to moremoney in good public education. Gillis 19:29, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Sites of interest
This section looks awful. It should either be made into an alphabetised list or reorganised with actual structure. &mdash; J I P | Talk 10:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * yeah as i noted udner "wikipedia vs. wikitravel", wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a travel-guide. All those places could maybe be placed in a category "places in helsinki" or something, but i feel they are in a bit in the wrong place in the Helsinki article itself. wikitravel.org is more suitable for such a list. In fact i think i'll add in http://wikitravel.org/en/Helsinki under See also.
 * The whole section is like a travel guide. Perhaps it should be trimmed down to just the most famous city parts, or deleted altogether? We could have a "List of sites in Helsinki" as a separate article. &mdash; J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 19:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah i think something like that would be a good idea. Maybe a short "freeflowing" text (not a list) and then al ink to the list-article.

Helsinki Still Capital
Boy, Finland nearly lost this one. Add this in, folks!

Helsinki nearly lost its title as capital of Finland on April of 1967. Apparently, the government had put in a bad law, causing riots everywhere.

I'm surprised this isn't in school textbooks.
 * The above is by, whose only contributions are on December 3, 2005, to talk pages of several country and city articles. I personally have never heard of Helsinki almost losing capital status. This is to be taken with a grain of salt. &mdash; <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 10:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Notable natives
Below are some past discussed names i moved from the improvementslist just so that we don't need to go through these names again. But i recommend that if you want to add a new name then before doing it take it up here as a subheader.

Below are some points that maybe should be reviewed before nominatign someone or adding someone the list (please feel free to contribute more points or dissagree, i am not trying to be a self-proclaimed profet here ;))


 * We are not speaking about just "helsinki natives" here, but notable natives, so please don't add just anyone who happends to have an wiki-article or is not very well known. The category Category:People_from_Helsinki serves that purpouse.
 * This is the international wikipedia, just because someone is very "famous" in finland does not mean they qualify for the list. Try adding only names that are known internationally to a "relatively broad audience".
 * It's Helsinki natives, not people living or associated to Helsinki, so as an example, the fact that Kimi Räikkönen owns a big flat in the center of Helsinki does not qualify him for the list. Discussion can be held on people who maybe were born somewhere else but have grown up and lived in Helsinki for a considerable time.
 * 15 minutes of fame does not qualify, although wikipedia is very frequently updated i think it is a bad move to list people who may be very passing phenomenons. The rasmus and Ville Valo are currently part of the list, but IMHO they are at the brink of being removed if they do not stay "trendy".
 * Keep it short, well as Helsinki is a city of .5-1 million inhabitants this should automatically apply if these pointers are followed, but try not to add names so that the list surpasses 10-15 names?

Add possible add's rm's for discussion here:

Ben Zyscowitz and Sami Garam
well ummh... it seems people have just splatted in their idols into the list since... well... is it really important on an itenrnational encyclopedia to note that Kirka and Zyscowitz are from helsinki? they are not that famous relly :) Sami Garam i can understand in the sence that he is well-renowned in Helsinki for being an expert in Helsinki-slang. Gillis 18:04, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
 * IMHO Kirka should stay there, but now that I think about it, Ben Zyskowicz (that's how it's spelled!) isn't really any more notable than any other Finnish MP. And I'm a Green League supporter anyway. =) &mdash; <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 10:56, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, well i partly agree with you that Kirka should stay (he rocks ;)), but still if you loo kat what other cities have noted as "Notable natives" they are really world-wide superstars... while i doubt pretty much anyone outside of Finland has much of a clue who Kirka is... but not that it is a big deal really... and i agree that Ben should maybe be removed since it could be seen as unfair to consider him "notable" over a dozin other Helsinkians in parliament.

(I think we have decided on these as no)

Tove Jansson, Michael Monroe, AIV, R. Granit, Mika Waltari

 * I removed some people who I think are only famous in Finland. The president of course is staying, and so is Tove Jansson, whose Moomin books are famous pretty much throughout Europe, and in Japan too. Ville Valo is of course staying too but I'm not sure about Michael Monroe. Nobel-winning scientists are of course staying. But I removed Zyskowicz and the Rasmus. &mdash; <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 19:09, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I took the liberty of re-arranging it a bit. i Put the Rasmus back since they are at the moment still a bit pop around the world (try a google search and UK and SE fan-clubs appear), they can be removed in a month or two when they are "totally out" ;) i also arranged the list so that it comes a bit in order of importance (very roughly of course!). I think Mika Waltari deserves a place on the list, after all sinuhe the egyptian was qutie popular and was made into a Hollywood movie etc. so he is probably known by some litterature fans abroad too.Gillis 21:21, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay seems the following should be be No or No later:


 * Michael Monroe: No
 * The Rasmus: yes but for the time being
 * Ville Valo: yes, unless he goes out of being pop ;)

Linda Brava
Okay... all good to linda, but... is she really famous outside of finland... no... and is she really famous for her (probably quite nice) violin playing? no. Sorry but i don't think a centerfold is merits enough to be a "notable native" in the class of the others listed here. If Linda should be listed then i could probably say 50 other listable names.... any objections to removing her?

Gillis 16:56, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay i removed Linda Brava, any objections can be aired here. Gillis 18:09, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Linda Brava is a notable native
Linda has played as a soloist with orchestras like La Scala Orchestra, The BBC National Orchestra of Wales and Stockholm Sinfonietta.

She has been an international model for Björn Borg and Christian Lacroix.

Linda has toured and performed in Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, the Philippines, USA, Canada, Great Britain, Belgium, Spain, France, Italy, Switzerland, Scandinavia et cetera.

She has released a classical album worldwide after being singned up for EMI Classics.

Linda has graced the covers of numerous European fashion magazines, and newspapers and magazines like Gramophone (excellent and positive review on Linda's classical album), Classic FM (Linda was called as a violin sensation on the cover story), The Times, The New York Times, The Sunday Times (on the cover of its cultural enclosure), Evening Saturday, The Sun (Linda on it's cover and rated her above Vanessa Mae), The European, Hello! (a five-page article), ELLE, Vogue, Maxim, Café (coverstory), GQ, Q-Magazine, Details (named Linda the best newcomer in music- and sex-categories) and Playboy Magazine (a ten-page article with photos) have written about Linda´s musical career.

Linda has performed and been interviewed on many TV shows all over the Europe, USA and Asia.

Her performance in Royal Albert Hall was shown on BBC and Eurosport worldwide, and her performance in Unicef gala was shown on RTL.

Linda´s music video for Ave Maria is still one of the most watched on Classic FM TV. Classic FM TV´s star search gives you Linda as a one of the stars of the classical music.

I think that Linda deserves her place as a notable native.

User:80.222.58.49 on 07:11, 12 March 2006


 * Okay, Linda Brava has a fair career as a succesfull violinist, and i see you have kept quite well track of it as the vast majority of your edits have to dowith Linda, this showing she has her fanbase (uneless you are her or her manager, although your ip-address goes to Finland while she is located in sweden at the moment as far as i know). I still disagree though that she ranks among names such as Linus Torvalds, Tove Jansson or AI Virtanen, and as the last rever was not done by me it seems to be a position also held byt others. Gillis 17:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

The Rasmus
Atleast i haven't heard much about them lately in the "mainstream", so i took the liverty of removing them. I think the notable natives lsit should be more of a list of long-term notable people, not the makers of this years summer-hits. (Don't know if Ville Valo should stay, but he seems to at least be a little longer-lived artist. + The Rasmus is mentiond under the "culture" heading already.

Gillis 17:10, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Pop-stars
I did a revert on the addition of some pop-signers fro mthe notable natives on 8.7.2006.

I feel that Ville Valo (lead singer of HIM), the rasmus or the 69 eyes are not really worth to make it on the current list. These are 15-minutes-of-fame pop-artists, and i feel the list should be of the kind that it doesen't need to be modified every sumemr depending on what's playing in teh radio, not that that in itself would be a problem, but i think having more people that have done things that they will be known of in 10,20 or 100 years is more encyclopedic. I think that the lead singer of the rasmus (or maybe it was HIM i can't remember) himself said when he heard they had been played more than jean sibelius that year "Well this is great and all, but i have no doubt about who of us two [he or sibelius] will be more played in 50 years."

There is a category with people from helsinki or helsinki births or something like that, that i think is notability enough for pop-stars. Also it is notable that many of the mentioned bands are already listed under "culture".

furthermore the names listed should be world-wide renowned people. And although the Finnish gossip-press wants to make it look otherwise Finnish pop-stars are not really big outside of Finland. Okay they might be played here and there but they aren't really "big names".

Gillis 19:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)


 * - 15-minutes-of-fame pop-artists? HIM has been a million-selling rock band since 2000, and popular in Finland since the release of their debut. Their popularity is based on loyal fanbase, not so much on the radio hits. They are a big name, and I don't see any change coming there anytime soon. The Rasmus - I agree with you, their popularity is more sensitive to current trends and how well their songs get played on the radio, so I wouldn't add them to the list yet (of course things might change in future). The 69 Eyes aren’t really known outside Finland (and possibly Germany), so I wouldn’t list them either.

- I would also consider adding Michael Monroe back there. Hanoi Rocks was one of those bands that never sold well, but had a big influence on the scene and on other bands, and Michael Monroe is well known among rock-musicians. Of course this depends whether we’re listing of people who’ve had influence (in this case he should be added), or just names that are widely known everywhere in the world (in this case he doesn't qualify). Manatar 04:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * True, i agree with you in the way that if the list was compiled for only Finland HIM would no doubt be right in there. But honestly i am a bit doubtfull of a very large long-term fanbase of HIM outside of Finland, and not, as you put it for the rasmus, sensitive to current trends. It's very important to remember this list is on the en.wikipedia, where most people can be assumed not to come from Finland. Usually its best to evaluate pop-stars once they've dropped from the hit-charts for good, which is the case with Hanoi rocks. I would maybe be more in favour of adding in Michael Monroe, but i guess Hanoi Rocks is more the type of band that is known well to people into the rock scene, as they never really got that huge mainstream breakthrough. Gillis 14:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

What if...
...we make a separate article about notable people from Helsinki? -- TonyM <sup style="color:orange;">ｷﾀ━( °∀° )━ｯ!!  19:02, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There is already one, or well it is a category(people from Helsinki or something like that i guess) And that is one of the reasons why i dont like adding a gazillion names to this article. Gillis 19:46, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Really, HIM and the rasmus
Come on having Ville Valo and Lauri Ylönen on the list is just stupid in my humble oppinion. Him is the more renowned and so far longer lasting of the two, but still the best HIM has done internationally could be pictured pretty much by "only" having made it to a gold record and as best somewhere around the top30 line on the billboards. And i doubt they will stay on the billboards around the world for many years. In comparison an article about Stockholm could probably present 10-20 people with similar merits(but doesen't). HIM and the rasmus are both listed under the culture part of the article and are part of the "list of people from Helsinki" article. I believe this is sufficient. Gillis 01:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Adolf Ehrnrooth
Just hit me when i reverted jean sibelius (Sibbe is not a helsinki native, if he would have been he'd surely qualify) from the list, that Adolf Ehrnrooth is a helsinki native that could maybe qualify for the list? he was voted the fourth greatest finn in "suuret suomalaiset" of all time in front of a bunch of other names that are on this very list. Of course he is not world-famous, except perhaps to some extent among a small group of WWII fans and historians. But he could be considered to have had a relatively big effect on the path Finnish history. Thoughts? Gillis 22:10, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Selänne
Without splitting hairs, isn't selänne fro mespoo judging from his junior club being one in Espoo? Gillis (talk) 20:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Some old bloke
Okay, so is it only me that takes the addition of "aarne arvonen" as largely a joke? I mean what merits him for the list other than living a long life and having taken part in the civil war? Him still living todayis something i do not see as meriting him for the list. All honour to veterans etc. but if he is there then why aren't a whole bunch of other civil war veterans? the list isn't for living people. Does this to someone else seem mostly as someone adding their old relative to wikipedia? Gillis (talk) 12:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Bogus inhabitants?
It seems 62.165.185.143 has been adding tens of thousands of inhabitants into the population statistics of Helsinki without any given source (and checking the users other contribs probably to other cities too)

i have a hard time believing the population would have changed this radically in a year with a average population change of around zero percent. The below Finnish väestörekisterikeskus data also proves me right, i put in this as the amount of helsinkains, and reverted the data about greater helsinki.

http://www.vaestorekisterikeskus.fi/vrk/home.nsf/pages/B3E010C5FB6FB33AC2256FFC00464D40

But please be on the lookout for this kind of changes.

And 62.165.185.143, you are allowed to prove me wrong, but then present some viable government or other neutral source.

Gillis 11:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Economy
"Gillis (→Economy - this paragraph is not really true. Since Helsinki has one of the smallest social inequalities of any city in the world it's size.)"

How come isn't it true? Please, could you specify a bit? :)

Helsinki *has* its fair share of problems, although not to the same extent as many other cities in the world. For example, its murder rate is highest in western Europe and there are more homeless people per 100,000 residents than in many American cities. Also, to my knowledge, violent crime has been on the increase recently. Let's not make the article too biased. ;)

One of the sources for murder rate http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/150000/images/_153988_murder_rate2-150.GIF

As of 2004, the number of homeless in Finland was estimated to be 7,700 single people and 350 families, of which more than half lived in Helsinki metropolitan area. Sadly, I don't have the link where this was compared with statistics in USA and Sweden immediately available, but if you wish I can try to locate it. It was shown at www.finlandforthought.net blog some time ago. http://www.ymparisto.fi/default.asp?node=17791&lan=en

Although you definitely are true that there aren't really proper slums in Helsinki, can we say it's unique in the world? Certain suburbs or areas in Helsinki would definitely qualify as areas (almost) explicitly inhabited by poorer people. The average income in some eastern suburbs, for example, was 15,000 euros per person. That's about one third of what the average income is in the neighbourhoods of southern Helsinki. Also, given the fact that crime rate among some immigrant groups his far above the national average, we could conclude that Helsinki isn't exactly egalitarian city, while the general situation there is extremely good.

Cheers! Thanks for the feedback.

-T


 * Well, 15,000 euros is not that much less than the overall Finnish national GDP per capita, which is $31,208 (this is US dollars = Monopoly money). The big inequality between (say) Eira and Kontula is not because Kontula is 'poor', it's because Eira is so much richer than the rest of the country.


 * The reason for the high murder rates is not social inequality, it's just that Finns in general tend to kill each other more often than most other people - it's in our genes. :) - ulayiti <font color="#226b22"> (talk) 15:14, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

True on both accounts, the murders don't usually take place on the streets but at people's homes, often between family members. However, they tend to be more common among less well-off people. Also, regarding the homelessness issue, I know that here the society provides at least something, so that the people don't have to try to manage by themselves alone. Still, I would stick to my claim that like all big cities in the world, there's difference between the various areas of Helsinki. :) It's not all that big problem, as I said (I did, after all, only write to the page that "the social inequality is on the rise"), but the article shouldn't be too much of a tourist advertisement. Looking at the economics part, I think it could more clearly and further underline the city's importance to Finland's economy.

If it's ok, I think I could write something about the services part later. I think the "Also police and fire departments serve citizens." has been there too long already. It has fair share of comedy value, though. :)

-T


 * I remember this slum thing being featured on the news at some point. I think it was an UN study or something like that. Of course the finnish news likes to hype anything good said about Finland, but i remember the point being that Helsinki has the smallest social inequality in the world of a city it's size(could have been capital too). Of course there is big differences between districts in Helsinki too etc. but they sure are smaller then in many other similar cities i've visited. You won't have to go further then to Stockholm to find bigger contrasts (much due to there being more immigrants there). Also Helsinki has seen much of the socialist politics for districts: homeless shelters are built in top-districts in order to get around social inequality, something i haven't seen elsewhere. And at the threat of sounding too right wing I think that with the highest social benefits in much of western europe i would say the homeless aren't a good meter of poorness, especially as i think there is a difference in homeless and homeless, when i came from scotland a few weeks back i met more beggers in glasgow and edinburgh in two days than i've done here in years. but my point: there are problems in Helsinki, but as they are the same or smaller than in msot other cities of similar size i think it's not really worth commenting on. Gillis 16:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

"And at the threat of sounding too right wing" Nothing wrong with that. :) Despite the impression I may have given my political views on Finnish political spectrum lean bit towards there... But nah, I fully understand your point now. Thanks for the explanation.

How should the Helsinki article as a whole be expanded and improved? I think we should use Wikipedia articles on well-covered cities like Berlin as an example. There's much to do, but I think that with some work it can look a whole lot better at the end of the summer.

-T

Why is the Sami name of Helsinki shown?
Sami isn't spoken in Helsinki... And spoken by only a few thousand in whole of Finland too.--80.186.100.180 22:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Because it's one of the three official languages in Finland? <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 05:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually it is not, it is a recognized minority language as Roma and sign-language also are while not a official national language such as Finnish or Swedish. This said I still think it is worth a mention in the article somewhere. Gillis 10:08, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree. It's also notable for being one of the few languages where the name isn't "Helsinki" (or "Helsingfors") or a minor variation thereof.  Whether it deserves to be in boldface in the lead sentence is a different matter — it doesn't bother me having it there, but I don't really care much either way.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 13:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The reason it was there is that 1) it adhered to the way the "native name" has been added to numerous other articles and 2) Helsinki has one of the most sizeable populations of Sámi in Finland. That said, the same rule should probably be applied to the Finnish version of this article, where we have:


 * Helsinki (ruots. Helsingfors, puhekielessä Stadi tai etenkin Helsingin ulkopuolella Hesa) on Suomen pääkaupunki.


 * Helsset should be added to the Finnish article, as well.


 * Perhaps it would be a better idea to have a list or table listing the names in the 3 Sámi languages, in stadi and in slang because right now that addition does not really fit in the paragraph where it is. If anyone know what it is in Roma, that would be a good insertion, too. -Yupik 13:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Sámi is spoken in Helsinki; ignorance of that fact is not really an excuse. For that matter, Northern Sámi is spoken by so many people that there is actually a language immersion program for children here (kielipesä). I can't say what the situation is for Inari Sámi, but there are also a number of Skolt speakers here. -Yupik 07:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Trivia or no trivia
User Ulayiti removed the trivia part a month back or so... was this really necessary, is not having trivia in articles a general policy on wikipedia. I agree that there is useless trivia, but some could just as well be written under other headers, but would just be more accessible facts when put under trivia.

Gillis 19:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I figure this was caused by the too trivial trivia I added, for example Helsinki being the friendliest city in Finland. Ulayiti removed all the useful trivia along with the useless. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 11:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Walking on ice
In winter, I and my father routinely go on skiing trips on the sea ice in Haukilahti, Espoo, very near Helsinki. We never have to worry about the ice breaking or melting, or otherwise falling into the sea. So therefore the statement "much caution must be taken" struck me as odd. But it is true that because of all the ship traffic, and complete urbanisation of the entire downtown Helsinki (Haukilahti is a more rural district), the ice in Helsinki never grows as thick and undisturbed as the ice in Espoo. There is ship traffic from Helsinki to Stockholm (see Ruotsinlaiva) all year round. The only ship traffic in Espoo is intra-city, and even that only in summer. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 20:16, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes and places with strong currents and for instance places outside power plants where they dump out warm water don't have to be all that thick, and for someone foreign this might not be directly obvious, as was seen last winter when someone from Spain nearly drowned when out walking on the ice in the wrong place. Gillis 22:13, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

New category for the nordic/scandinavian capitals?
I would like to suggest a new category for the capital cities of Scandinavia/the Nordic, including Copenhagen, Helsinki, Oslo, Reykjavik and Stockholm. (I've posted this message on the talk page for each city.) Comments, anyone? /M.O (u) (t) 15:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have notthing against a category itself. But it might be wiser to call it "capital cities of the nordic countries", as in a strict sence scandinavia should be only sweden-norway and maybe denmark, although Finland and Iceland are usually coutned in due to the common cultural heritage. Although it seems it is quite debated in many articles whetever Finland and Iceland should be should be addressed as "scandinavien" on wikipedia, but afaik the common sensus is to count in Finland and iceland into "the nordic countries". Gillis 16:00, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Complement EU
On December 16, 2004, The World Factbook, a publication of the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) added an entry for the European Union. According to the CIA, the European Union was added because the EU "continues to accrue more nation-like characteristics for itself". Their reasoning was explained in this small statement in the introduction:

The evolution of the European Union (EU) from a regional economic agreement among six neighboring states in 1951 to today's supranational organization of 25 countries across the European continent stands as an unprecedented phenomenon in the annals of history... ... for such a large number of nation-states to cede some of their sovereignty to an overarching entity is truly unique... ... the EU ... has many of the attributes associated with independent nations: its own flag, anthem, founding date, and currency, as well as an incipient common foreign and security policy in its dealings with other nations. In the future, many of these nation-like characteristics are likely to be expanded. Thus, inclusion of basic intelligence on the EU has been deemed appropriate as a new, separate entity in The World Factbook. However, because of the EU's special status, this description is placed after the regular country entries.

I might add that EU citizens have EU- numberplates, -passports, drivinglicense, the EU institutions, and regular election. I hope you support the small extension I made... all the best Lear 21 18:31, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The EU is not a country, look it up. I have reverted your edit, as others have done on the Berlin article. Please stop pushing your POV. --Bob 01:27, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Is it possible for us to get a Helsinki accent recording of the city's Swedish name? Because the one now sounds awfully like Sweden-Swedish, especially the "fors" part. Andelarion 17:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you are correct on that one, if someone pronounced Helsingfors like that in Helsingfors he most likely would have just gotten off the Ruotsinlaiva. Also the Finnish language pronounciation is incorrect, or wended before the person ended the word (she says "Helsin" right now). Gillis 19:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree, it sounds very very odd! As it's now I think Helsingfors is spoken by someone with Stockholm accent while it should of course be spoken in the local Fenno-Swedish accent. I could possibly provide the audio clip myself. However I did not grow up in Helsingfors, so I should disqualify myself? I can let a friend speak. My question is: How do I submit such an audio file? Drquick 12:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, though the pronunciation isn't quite rikssvenska either, because of the lack of the proper pitch accent. I'd advocate moving the current Swedish version to the Swedish Wikipedia entry Helsingfors which doesn't have a sound sample yet, proactively soliciting for samples from native speakers of standard Swedish, and then obtaining a separate sample from a native speaker of the Finnish dialect of the Swedish language. Decoy (talk) 16:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I also find much to be hoped for even in the pronunciation of the native Finnish version: 1) the sample seems hastily cut at the beginning, so that the initial glottal stop and harshness of a fully pronounced, dictionary-style 'h' are more or less inaudible, 2) there's severe breath on the microphone which might fool some learners of the language into believing there is a kind of plosive at the start, 3) most likely due to pronunciation in isolation from running prosody, and also performance stress, the characteristic falling tone of Finnish from initial accent is largely absent, 4) the syllabic timing somehows seem a bit off from the standard/average, as if the word was read aloud instead of just being spoken, and finally 5) the recording should be done at a higher amplitude and using a professional microphone, so as to avoid smearing the detailed phonetics.

If you agree, I just might be able to help, both here and elsewhere -- some of my friends are in the recording and narration business, and then a session to properly rerecord a single word wouldn't make nearly as much sense as to work through the 100-1000 most referred-to Finnish concepts at once. If you're interested, please update my talk page. Decoy (talk) 16:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Helsingin?
The intro sentence claims that the Finnish name is "Helsinki" and the Swedish name is "Helsingfors". If so, then what does the "Helsingin", which is neither of those two spellings, in the city template mean? If you answer this question here, could you please let me know on my user talk page so I'll know to come check this page? Thanks. &mdash;Lowellian (reply) 12:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Helsingin" is the Finnish language genitive case of "Helsinki". So, "Helsingin" means "of Helsinki" or "Helsinki's" and in this case, "Helsingin kaupunki" translates to "City of Helsinki". --KFP (talk | contribs) 13:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay, makes sense. Thank you! &mdash;Lowellian (reply) 13:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Freedom to work seasonably?
I find strange this quote. What does it mean "freedom" to work seasonably and sporadically? "Freedom" to die for hungry in the other seasons? This sounds like right-wing propaganda and not neautral. Val
 * I personally think that that quote might have been put there by staff of one of those types of agencies. Originally it featured links to a few such companies, which I removed as obvious spam. Generally i don't find that point really noteworthy in the article as i doubt it is so specific to Helsinki as it looks in this article. And yes, that sounds exactly how it could be put in a broshure of one of those agencies ;) Gillis 07:09, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

slang-term IPA?
I think the slang terms that are poined out to the Helsinki slang in many cases are quite useless without a IPA on how they are pronounced. They differ from names of places etc. people still know what place it is even if it's misspronounced, and very well may be pronounced in a different way in a different language. And many of the Helsinki slang terms don't have a definitive spelling. But for slang terms, such as "hietsu" in the article, pronouncing it as a english-speaker, which i guess is the most plausible for reader of this article not familiar with the term would pronounce it as one would pronounce in finnish~the gibberish "hai jietsy"(stadi would be about "steidj" and so on). I'm no good at IPA so someone who is fluent in that could put in the slang terms? Gillis 18:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Umm, actually written Finnish corresponds quite well with its phonetics (hence the saying "Finnish is written like it is spoken"). What you most likely are referring to are pronunciation guides for English speaking people (such as APA). I can't really claim to know much about phonetic discriptions but anyone willing to write them should give a moment of reflection to the famous Helsinki variant of the fricative s (/z/?). Juhoi (talk) 00:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Architecture in Helsinki
I have been thinking of moving the architecture subsection to Architecture in Helsinki, but the problem is, there is already an article there, about an Australian band who happens to be named Architecture in Helsinki. I can't change the band's name, and all incoming links to the article are about the band, not about actual architecture in Helsinki. So I would have to call the new article Architecture in Helsinki (something), but what? "Real"? "Not band"? <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 19:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
 * IMHO the actual architecture could well deserve that article name over a coming and going band. But of course you could try "Helsinki architecture" and then put in a disambiguation on the bands article?
 * Also JIP, imho you can be a bit too eager with moving stuff to sub-articles that people usually don't bother going to anyway... Keep at least mentions of the different styles and eras of the Helsinki architecture in the main article please. But a separate article is indeed a great idea: that way the article could have loads of pictures to exemplify the different styles and so on without kludging up this main one. Gillis 20:38, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

multi-culturality
well the introduction to the article is a bit misleading imho...

"Helsinki is the international gateway of Finland. The city has Finland's largest immigrant population in both absolute and relative terms. There are people from over 130 nationalities resident in Helsinki. The largest groups are from Russia, Estonia, Sweden, Somalia, Serbia, China, Iraq and Germany."

This makes it sound like the streets are full of people from all around the world meeting in the one multi-cultural friendly meeting place and metropolitan city of Helsinki. But honestly, our immigration policies in Finland are embarrassing, i think we have the least amount of immigrants from around the world in the whole of western Europe. A black man in the metro is something unusual that everyone notices etc. not to speak about the bad quality of average ethnic food ;) Although Helsinki maybe has the most immigrants per population in Finland it is nowhere close to big metropolitan cities in the amount of immigrants. If i remember correctly Sweden has more than ten times the amounts of immigrants compared to Finland.

So any suggestions to change the intro to reflect reality a bit more?

Gillis 20:49, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

The rason for the move
I think it was because it was hard for the ships to get in the harbor due to strong currents (I ain't sure)  Peacekeeper II, too lazy to log on since -06  12:34, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? Gillis 13:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The move of Helsinki's centre from the mouth of the river Vantaa to the Vironniemi peninsula, perhaps? <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 10:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

He-he
That panorama is quite silly because the sun looks like a nuclear explosion! :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by Peace keeper II (talk • contribs) 12:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Helsinki is the second most sparsely populated European capital after Brussels?
"Today Helsinki is the second most sparsely populated European capital after Brussels"

Doesn't make any sense to me.

Helsinki's density 3 048.6/km²


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andorra_la_Vella density ~763/km²
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarajevo density ~2149/km²
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofia density 1030/km²
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagreb density ~1215/km²
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague density ~2400/km²
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallinn density ~2506.9/km²
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo density ~1300/km²

and so on.

No one answered, but I removed that sentece anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.152.165.200 (talk) 21:39, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


 * That should say Helsinki metropolitan area which is around a thousand. Also the source lists EU capitals (as it's EU-figures it sources), so that should also be clarified. Also it's notable that the definition of what is part of "the city" is rather vague and differs in different figures. And please, don't remove only sources - especially if they are legit sources such as that one. Gillis (talk) 00:08, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Demonym is wrong
"Stadilainen" is a slang word, Finnish demonym is "helsinkiläinen", and English something else.

Demonym
The demonym for Helsinki should be "helsinkiläinen", which means "person from Helsinki". "Stadilainen" means "person from stadi", using a slang name for Helsinki. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 10:01, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Climate table
Why do the colours in the high temperatures go the wrong way? I would associate orange with hot and gray with cold. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 18:14, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Public transport
Please correct the parts where Finland is claimed to have 3 municipalities with tramway traffic. Helsinki, Turku and Viipuri are the obvious ones, but the Helsinki tramway used to extend itself to Kulosaari, that was a part of Helsingin maalaiskunta, i.e. the modern day Vantaa. I made the same request in the article "Public transport in Helsinki". -Juhoi, 10 July, 08 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.243.150.152 (talk) 13:40, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Visithelsinki.fi
How come the link to City of Helsinki official tourism site was removed as spam? Tourism site distributes valuable information for tourists and dwellers alike. Most of the major city's pages in wiki have a like to a current city's official tourism site - how it is not kosher in this case? Pls comment Beetstra - Subdependent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.163.145.226 (talk • contribs)


 * Well, you are adding this site to many wikipedia (see m:User:COIBot/XWiki/visithelsinki.fi), and the pages you are adding the link to is about Helsinki, not about tourism in Helsinki. And what is there on other pages is not a reason to add it here as well, I hope that others will have a look at this site and see if it is appropriate or not.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 13:52, 2 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Seems appropriate enough to me. We're not a web directory, but given that we do provide some external links, this one seems as reasonable as any.  I've restored the link accordingly.  —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 17:16, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Climate table
The climate table isn't sourced, and will be removed unless sources are added. The usual source for climate tables on Wikipedia, weather.com, gives the Helsinki climate as being significantly colder than the table presented here. If the table isn't sourced, and it can be shown to be more reliable than the weather.com data, the latter will be inserted here. JdeJ (talk) 11:58, 29 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't know where that data was coming from, but I know that is was not from Helsinki. I used the official Finnish climate data from the Finnish Meteorological Institute and fixed the table. There is also a reference. I hope it is better now. The colors are still funny, but I don't know how to change that. NMS (talk) 01:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the whole climate table mentioned above and replaced it with one copied from Stockholm, but with the data changed to the same as in the old table. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 17:39, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

CITE ERROR (!)
Can someone fix it now and faster? --Querto (talk) 09:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I fix it. --Querto (talk) 10:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Helsinki winter time
There should be more pictures of wintery Helsinki in the article. It's not always summer in Hki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.27.110.230 (talk) 17:36, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I could go out some weekend and take some pictures of wintery Helsinki once winter actually begins. For a city that many foreigners think is perpetually covered in snow, I haven't seen even a thin sprinkling of snow in Helsinki for the past two and a half weeks. There are already some nice pictures of wintery Espoo on the English Wikipedia, but I don't know if that counts, as Espoo extends both further south and further north than Helsinki. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 21:30, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
 * My comment above strikes me as funny now, because since Christmas, it has been very cold and snowy in Helsinki. Temperatures have very rarely climbed above -10 °C and there is snow everywhere, especially outside the centre, where absolutely everything is covered in snow. I have some pictures now, but I haven't yet selected which ones to upload. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P | Talk 21:35, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Naming conventions
In Brussels-related articles, they refer to placenames with a "first French/Dutch, then French" policy. The lingual history of Brussels and Helsinki are quite similar: Helsingfors was a predominantly Swedish-speaking town until about 1900, similarly Brussel was mostly Dutch-speaking in the 19th century. Today the Bruxellois speak mainly French and Helsinkiläiset mainly Finnish, but the minority language is heard and seen everyday on the streets. Therefore I'd suggest a Brussels-like naming convention that when first mentioned, use the both names (like Huvilakatu/Villagatan) and when mentioned thereafter, use only the Finnish form. Ultrix (talk) 18:19, 21 September 2010 (UTC)


 * As a 10 year resident of Helsinki, I believe that comparing the situation with Brussels is not appropriate. Finnish speakers replaced Swedish speakers in 1890, when the helsinki metropolian area (pääkaupunkiseutu) had less then 100 thousand inhabitants. Today, The pks has a population of 1.1 million people, and is pretty much exclusively Finnish speaking, unlike the situation in belgium. Immigrants learn Finnish exclusively to adapt to the environment and learn the language. Finnish and Swedish speakers tell newcomers and tourists addresses in Finnish, not swedish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zedkoman (talk • contribs) 05:45, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree here, I think a double-mention is the only correct policy to go about it in an encyclopedic way really, because the city is legally bilingual. And in the historical perspective the Swedish names usually preceded the Finnish version. Gillis (talk) 04:45, 18 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope. Standard Wikipedia policy is to use only the one most common name for everything, and in Helsinki, that most common name is invariably in Finnish, not Swedish. Swedish alternate names should be covered in the leads of articles on specific topics. Jpatokal (talk) 22:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Infobox picture
Could people settle on one of these images and not constantly switch between the two? <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P &#124; Talk 06:46, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The other picture is flawed if you look closely at it - the blur is non-uniform and the right edges are not in line. I could fix it in 5 minutes in GIMP if someone explained me what is the point of replacing the image in the first place? AFAIK the new collage just has fewer images, which hardly sounds like any development to me. --hydrox (talk) 22:38, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The current montage isn't that good I think, as three of the five photos are from the small empire area around the cathedral and senate square. Some photos of the notable jugend architecture, business districts etc. would be good.89.27.57.41 (talk) 16:57, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Greater Helsinki and Helsinki metropolitan area
Hi, Greater Helsinki (Helsingin Seutu) and the Helsinki metropolitan area (pääkaupunkiseutu) are two - distinct - geographic areas. Whomever did the editing probably does not live in Finland and know the difference. The Helsinki metropolitan area consists -only- of Helsinki, Vantaa, Espoo and Kauniainen. Greater Helsinki consists of these cities and several others (hyvinkää, järvenpää, kerava, kirkkonummi, nurmijärvi, sipoo, tuusula, vihti, mänsälä.) It's confusing but that is how it's classified in Uusimaa, Finland. Without showing a distinction between the 2 entities you are misinforming wikipedia readership. In the edit someone wrote that Greater Helsinki consists of Helsinki, Vantaa, Espoo and Kauniainen and has a population of 1.3 million people. This is incorrect. Please fix it. Zedkoman (talk) 10:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Population growth in the '70s
An unsourced claim was removed and then re-added with the justification that this is a "well-known fact." That isn't how it works: Verifiability is a core policy, and the burden of evidence is on the editor who restores material. Even a Finnish-language source will do as long as one of us can translate the relevant portion. Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 20:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Would this suffice as enough clear source? It says 1960s was the pinnacle of expansion, which is also my understanding. --hydrox (talk) 21:31, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
 * That seems to work, thanks. Although I notice that the abstract of that paper doesn't cite lack of housing as the only reason for slow growth, which is what the statement here implied. Orange Suede Sofa  (talk) 21:45, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Helsinki from the Spot satellite
The caption claims this is Helsinki as seen from the Spot satellite. Actually, the big landmass on the left, constituting about a third of the image, belongs to Espoo. The big island in the middle is Lauttasaari, which is in Helsinki, but the continental land west from it is in Espoo. <font color="#CC0000">J <font color="#00CC00">I <font color="#0000CC">P &#124; Talk 20:30, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I guess the point here is that most of the urbanization (eg. gray) seen in the image forms the Helsinki city centre. --hydrox (talk) 20:48, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Still, this article is about the city of Helsinki. That being the case, isn't it a bit off the mark to display an image with a) a large portion of another city in it and b) lacking half of the area of the city in question? Clarifer (talk) 17:46, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You are welcome to go dig up a better image! Jpatokal (talk) 23:00, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Nickname Stadi vs. Hesa
That Helsinkians use Stadi and out-of-towners Hesa is a widely spread cliché but not true. Born in Helsinki, me and schoolmates have always used Hesa, Stadi-users being a snobbish minority. Anyone telling someone their hometown is Stadi would be considered a jerk. 88.113.130.224 (talk) 12:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I've removed this claim altogether from the article, as it is inherently imprecise and most probably not verifiable. --hydrox (talk) 12:39, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Surely both Hesa and Stadi are verifiably nicknames for the city though? Jpatokal (talk) 23:12, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Problem is, as there is no governing body over spoken Finnish or stadin slangi, it depends entirely on whom you ask, and one way or another many will agree and disagree. In kirjakieli Hesa and Stadi are surely both non-existant, as is easily verified. A well-conducted statisical study of a large random sample of Helsinkians correlating the inhabitants' original place of birth to whether they primarily use 'Stadi', 'Helsinki', 'Hesa' or something else would deliver. --hydrox (talk) 00:16, 22 September 2011 (UTC) Okay, and how fittingly, here's a rather recent study (Ainiala 2009). The article BTW argues that Hesa is actually a proper slang word, having found its way to the language already pre-1950s. --hydrox (talk) 01:20, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Helsingfors in English
The English name continued to be Helsingfors for some time. I was still hearing or reading that name in the 1960s. When did English make the transition from Helsingfors to Helsinki? Varlaam (talk) 19:02, 5 December 2011 (UTC) (Canada)
 * I have a map fromn the 30's that says helsinki, but then says åbo for turku... So i don't think any strict date has been around. If someone knew where finland was in the 30's was good enough in general i guess ;) Gillis (talk) 08:43, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Cities of Espoo, Vantaa, Kauniainen
It is highly misleading to call Espoo, Vantaa and Kauniainen "cities". Kauniainen is a small town (founded long time ago), and Espoo and Vantaa are administrative areas consisting of the suburbs of Helsinki. I know, Finns always insist of distinguishing between Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa, but de facto Espoo and Vantaa are just parts of the Helsinki metropolitan area. An analogous situation is e.g. in London, which administratively is split to a couple of dozen administrative "boroughs", which does in any way undermine the idea of London as a single city. I would suggest rewriting parts of the article to reflect this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.96.46.97 (talk) 03:18, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Why the status quo: A "city" (kaupunki) in Finland is just a municipality (kunta) that has decided to designate itself so. For example, Pudasjärvi is also a "city" in the same administrative sense as Espoo, Vantaa and Kauniainen, although its population density is only 1.55 people on a square kilometer. Sometimes, such small municipalities that are designated as kaupunki are translated as "town" in English rather than "city", but all the four municipalities of the Helsinki Metropolitan Area are officially designated as kaupunki and call themselves "city" and not "town" on their official homepages: City of Helsinki, City of Espoo, City of Vantaa and City Kauniainen.
 * My opinion: It is very confusing that the government has allowed any municipality to designate itself as a kaupunki without any demographic or urban development requirements at all. It would be much easier if a Wikipedia article explaining this situation was created, e.g. Finnish city, and the term "municipality" was always used to refer to any Finnish municipality regardless of its designation as a kaupunki or kunta, the designation as kaupunki or kunta perhaps being only relevant on the main article of the municipality. This seems to be the style used by the Metropolitian Area Environmental Servies Authority and Transport Authority on their web pages in describing their organization. --hydrox (talk) 13:29, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not like Finland is the only country that has municipalities called cities despite little urbanism. See for example Fort Yukon, city in Alaska, population 583. --89.27.36.41 (talk) 11:14, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Climate data
The link [16] about the climate data doesn't work anymore. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 717FX (talk • contribs) 05:59, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Helsinki urban area
Hey, should Helsinki urban area population count include cities such as järvenpää and kerava? Finnish statistics center seems to think so. It says that urban area, "helsingin keskustaajama" in finnish is bigger than just a pääkaupunkiseutu.

http://www.stat.fi/ajk/tiedotteet/v2008/tiedote_001_2008-01-15.html

This article talks about it and tells population count in 2005, but does not include proper definiton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inkogn (talk • contribs) 12:08, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:56, 1 May 2016 (UTC)