Talk:Hendrick Theyanoguin

Hendrick and Brant
This article says that one of these "Kings of America" was Sagayonguaroughton who is said to have been Joseph Brant's grandfather. A source for the Joseph Brant article said that King Hendrick himself was Brant's mother's grandfather. I guess they both could be true, but not likely, so one of these articles probably needs to change -- I'm guessing the Brant one. Nonenmac 20:52, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe it is neither-- the Mohawk word for grandfather covered a number of grandfatherly relations, including, in this case, both that of step-grandfather (Sagayonguaroughton) and solicitous older family friend (Hendrick). It wasn't important to be precise since it was the matrilineal descent that mattered. You can also find sources that claim that William Johnson was Brant's father(!) Mwanner June 28, 2005 23:45 (UTC)

Appearance and birth date
Hinderaker doesn't subscribe, or perhaps even know about, the veil hypothesis that appears in Appletons'. On pp. 267-273, Hinderaker has a discussion of three different portraits, including the one used for this article, which were all made soon after the Battle of Lake George. Interpreting the portrait used for this article, Hinderaker refers to a "crescent scar on the left cheek" (p. 269), which for someone seeing a veil would be the lower edge of the veil. The veil interpretation seems reasonable to me as I see some streaks in the detailed version of the portrait that Hinderaker exhibits. The faint, long streaks cross diagonally and pass closely or just inside either edge of Hendrick's left eye. These seem to me to be an attempt to represent a veil. However, there is no difference in skin tones which one might also expect in an attempt to represent a veil.

The three portraits Hinderaker discusses are fairly different, though with similarities, and neither of the other two has anything remotely resembling a veil, or horizontal scars on the cheek for that matter. Hinderaker's book is an interesting read, but has no indication of what would motivate a Mohawk warrior to wear a veil in battle, which I was curious about.

Appletons' description of his waistcoat as the "uniform of a British officer" I think is probably a bit off, and it more likely just one of the fancy gentleman's coats which Hinderaker mentions Hendrick received as gifts from the English. His wearing it in battle seems credible for a Christian Indian. Given Hinderaker's obvious scholarly depth of knowledge on this matter, I would certainly feel more comfortable about Appletons' statement about the veil and his battle dress if there were some independent backup elsehwere. One of the other portaits does show Hendrick wearing an English dress coat of some sort.

I also found this article with an exact birth day in 1692 which neither Hinderaker nor Appletons' has. It doesn't seem credible to me, and I changed it to Hinderaker's approximate date of c.1691. Bob Burkhardt (talk) 20:01, 7 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see a veil in any version of the image. Instead of a veil, the Appleton's writer may have been referring to what might be better called a "head scarf". The engraver who made the version of the image for Appleton's clearly interpreted the white flowing material at the back of Hendrick's head to be a head scarf, and this artistic impression perhaps influenced the writer, who chose the word "veil" to describe what he saw. It's possible that this is a head scarf, but it could be, in Hinderaker's words, "flowing white hair". —Kevin Myers 01:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

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