Talk:Henley Passport Index

List inaccessible countries
For the top 5 of maybe the top 10 passports, could we list the countries that they did not score and thus cannot enter without a visa? That would be helpful to compare where which of the top passports they cannot go — Preceding unsigned comment added by MathieuJobin (talk • contribs) 23:46, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Promotional
This article is highly promotional in nature. Using a large, centered image in the article, pulled directly from the subject's website, does not seem appropriate. I also collapsed the table because it is extremely long; MOS:COLLAPSE allows for these long tables to be collapsed, especially when these tables are lists of data.

I'd prefer not to get into an edit war about this, but this article as a whole is concerning. It has a history of WP:COI and WP:COPYVIO edits, which were recently deleted. Let's please discuss here how to resolve some of these issues so it doesn't return to an even more promotional state. – Broccoli &#38; Coffee (Oh hai) 23:25, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry that I've left you so long without a response, Broccoli &#38; Coffee. Unfortunately and because of my current flight schedules it may be some while before I can set aside the couple of hours or so that I need for a reasoned riposte to your main complaint.
 * For now may I just say
 * 1) I did not create, or contribute to, this article until relatively recently.
 * 2) I am not aware of any personal conflict of interest - I have never been employed by Henley, their subsidiaries, clients, or professional advisors and I am not and have never been either a shareholder or officer in the firm.
 * 3) Since the whole subject of the article is the actual ranking index, it is obviously most unhelpful and an annoyance to our readers to collapse it and hide it from plain view as you did here and again here.
 * 4) Have you misunderstood the BOLD, revert, discuss cycle? It was a very bold edit indeed that you made to hide the whole subject of the article from view with your edit summary stating "collapse long table" and (quite naturally) I reverted your bizarre edit.
 * 5) Consequently until we have now finished discussing your bold edit, and a consensus has emerged to hide the table listing the Henley Passport Index ranking, please self- revert your recent restoration of your bold edit. --BushelCandle 21:25, 14 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I did not mean to imply that you had the COI history. Instead, it is User:Mara.ispas, as seen in the template on this talk page, as well as that user's user page. This page was recently nominated for deletion due to copyvio concerns from this connected contributor. However, rather than delete the entire article, the reviewing administrator reverted about a year's worth of edits, which I think was the right decision (note that those edits are now hidden from the page history, which is why it looks like there is no history between 2016 and 2018). That said, the resulting version still has many problems -- one of them being that unfitting large image. That image was removed a long time ago, but came back during that mass revert. Frankly, it doesn't belong.


 * As for the long table, that wasn't added until a week ago with this edit . This, too, is unnecessary. The rankings will change over time, and it does not belong in an encyclopedia. The article should only cover details about the company and product, and it does not need to actually provide the listings. My "bizarre edit" to collapse the list was actually the tame response, since I would have preferred to delete it altogether. Also, because there is information in the article that comes after the very long table, it should be collapsed initially. – Broccoli &#38; Coffee (Oh hai) 05:49, 15 July 2018 (UTC)


 * I've commented out the table - I don't see that it can be included without being a copyright violation. And it isn't necessary for this article, this is an article _about_ the HPI. It is not a copy of the HPI, or an article about the travel freedom of any particular password. Ben Aveling 16:29, 7 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I see someone's put the table back in without explaining why they think it's OK. I'm deleting it. Please don't restore it without discussion. Ben Aveling 11:36, 2 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Ben, for what it's worth, my opinion hasn't changed since a year ago -- I support deleting the table. Thanks. –  Broccoli  &#38; Coffee (Oh hai) 14:57, 2 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Sorry, comment was to the world at large, not specifically to anyone. Might be time to take this to Copyright_problems for a few more eyeballs. Ben Aveling 02:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello, since the table is now removed, do we still need the Close Paragraphing template? I think it has become redundant. Waterpr8f 08:18, 9 December 2019 (GMT)

At the date of writing this comment, an updated HPI ranking table has reappeared. Just as useful, there is now another table, showing the historic movements in the index. I stand by my earlier comments above - not only is the DATA presented in these tables NOT a copyright violation, they are more useful to our casual readers if initially presented in non-collapsed form. --BushelCandle 23:56, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Link to passport rather than country?
Would it not make sense to link to a page discussing the passport rather than the country? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:7212:4400:6CDE:D4EF:2BAA:FC68 (talk) 20:18, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Absolutely!
 * That's just one of the problems with having all those pretty, little flags (not) waving in the breeze... --BushelCandle 00:56, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Couldn't agree more. I was surprised that when I clicked on Singapore for example, it linked to the page for that country in general and not Visa requirements for Singaporean citizens. Am I allowed to relink these countries?  Salmantino24 (talk) 18:21, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Arton v. Henley
There appear to be two principal authorities on this, as mentioned in the subject line, and I am amazed at the levels of variance. This is all the more bizarre when one considers that Henley has introduced its own comparison list, which only Arton previously had. Both sources would seem to base their findings on empirical research.

As of January 2020, for example, Arton places the Ireland passport in 3rd position globally, whilst Henley has it at number 6. Arton lists UAE at #1, whereas Henley has put Japan in the top spot. This makes no sense, particularly when both outfits claim up-to-the-minute data to support these placings.

Should Wiki even use these sources without further investigation?
 * PLEASE; no partisan Arton/Henley score settling. "Arton is generally recognised as the most reliable model for"... etc, etc, etc.

It isn't. It can't be. Neither of them are, it seems. Comments? Hanoi Road (talk) 16:23, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

I've raised this question in the Arton entry talk page also, since there seems to be a huge variance between these two. Neither methodology seems skewed, but rankings are so different as to raise the question of which is the more reliable source.

I only flag this since both are routinely used as sources for "Visa requirements for citizens of xxxxx". Any input welcome. Hanoi Road (talk) 18:49, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Discrepancies with the actual Henley website?
According to the Global Ranking on the Henley Passport Website, Japan and Singapore are on 192 countries, Germany and South Korea are 2nd on 190, Finland, Italy, Luxembourg and Spain joint 3rd on 189, Austria and Denmark 4th on 188, with France, Ireland, Netherlands, Portugal and Sweden 5th on 187. Culloty82 (talk) 15:23, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This happens for two reasons, 1) updates on the Henley Passport Website, and 2) random vandalism. Unfortunately without continuous checking it is very hard to distinguish the two. CMD (talk) 16:40, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Updates for 2022
I've updated the 2021 table to the newest data on 2022 passports from the Henley website. Now that I think of it, I may have needed permission before doing this (if so, sorry)[I'm new here]. I wanted to point this out mainly because I was wondering if the table below it for past data needs to be updated to 2021 data. Thanks! Haiiya(talk)
 * Possibly worth adding the 2021 data to the past table, but no issue regarding "permission", welcome to Wikipedia. CMD (talk) 08:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

2023 List
The list for 2023 is wrong. The quoted source put Japan in 3rd place, for example and Germany, Italy and Spain un 2nd. 101.56.23.35 (talk) 18:20, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Strength of a passport
Strength of a passport is determined by the number of countries the holder of the passport can enter visa free. I would like to suggest additional ranke: the procentage of land of the globe the holder can visit visa free. This will vancel the anomality of the same weight of a huge country and a tiny one. Both indexes will deliver a more reliable description of the strength of a passport 2A0D:6FC2:4540:1500:D543:A480:7951:CF37 (talk) 16:43, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Update on Chinese choice to allow visa-free travel
China allows citizens of selected countries to travel for tourism for no more than 15 days in China on an experimental and unilateral basis from 01/12/2023 to 30/11/2024. The countries that have this privilege are Italy, France, Spain, Germany, Malaysia. So Japan as the second strongest passport holder will soon make way for Germany, Italy, France and Spain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sandro kensan (talk • contribs) 18:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Wrong figures from another source
How something so simple can be wrong https://www.passportindex.org/fr/passport-power-rank-2023.php ? S.Debucquoi (talk) 14:05, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

And on oficial website another figures !!! https://www.henleyglobal.com/passport-index/ranking