Talk:Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr./Archive 1

First Splendid American Award (Oct. 1964)
Disbound volume. This volume contains photographs of Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. receiving the first Splendid American Award from the Thomas A. Dooley Foundation in Oct. 1964. The photographs depict Lodge at the Foundation's reception and ceremony in his honor, with author William Lederer, singer Peggy Lee, and Bounlieng Chounramany, governor of Sithandone Province in Laos ... RJBurkhart 23:04, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
 * MAHS: Splendid American Award Ceremony, October 1964.

Why is he "Junior" and other questions
Why is he designated "Junior" and not "II" if he was named in honor of his grandfather, not his father? What is his connection to William Lederer other than they were both part of the Cold War, and that Lederer attended the awards dinner where he got the Splendid American Award? I don't see anything else about either article as written about either man. Were they friends, related, etc.? Is it because some critics linked Lodge to an Ugly American character? If so, where are references to this?
 * I too am curious, as to why he's named 'Jr' & not 'II'. Perhaps an explanation, can be added to this article. GoodDay 18:47, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Isn't he named junior simply because he's the second of that name? Occam's Razor people! Don't make things needlessly complicated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian Tjoe-Nij (talk • contribs) 13:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I figured it out. After his father (George Lodge) died, little Henry Lodge (at the time 7-yrs) was un-officially adopted by his grandfather Henry Lodge & thus as the grandson/adopted son, changed his name from Henry C. Lodge II to Henry C. Lodge Jr. GoodDay (talk) 21:29, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

"coincidences"
By an interesting coincidence, in 1916 Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr. had defeated Kennedy's grandfather, John F. Fitzgerald, for the same Senate seat. In yet another coincidence, Lodge's son, George C. Lodge was defeated in his bid for the seat by Kennedy's brother, Ted Kennedy in 1962.

Well, except, it's hardly a coincidence that two of the most powerful political families in Massachusetts contested this seat repeatedly. It is certainly interesting; how can we better present this? --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 04:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

His Role as Ambassador —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.10.176.74 (talk) 23:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

The section on his role in South Vietnam and especially the Diem coup, is highly speculative and in parts completely erroneous, while it is very arguable that his actions as Ambassador did lead to the fall of Diem, it is another thing entirely to say that he lead a coup under the name operation Bravo 2. In fact operation Bravo 2 was a plan created by the Vietnam presidency as a fake coup in an attempt to remove their opposition, see Howard Jones 'Death of a Generation'.

I wonder the person who wrote about Cabot Lodge and his time in South Vietnam around 1963-1964 was a true and professional historian? Remember this person has to look himself into the mirror every morning and would say,"I am proud of that I am doing!"

Quan D. Truong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.83.168.253 (talk) 19:51, 4 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't see any evidence of the article saying he led Bravo II, which was supposed to be a fake by Ton That Dinh and Le Quang Tung anyway  YellowMonkey  ( bananabucket ) 00:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Ambassador to South Vietnam
I'm confused here about the dates. On top of this page, you find that Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr. was appointed ambassador to South Vietnam between 1964 and 1967 and succeeded by Ellsworth Bunker (who indeed is reported himself to start in 1967), while in this paragraph, he is reputedly an ambassador between 1963 and 1964. I have scant memories of that epoch, but I suspect there is some mistyping there. 1964 should read in fact 1967, although the author mentions he was re-appointed ambassador to South Vietnam in 1965 by President Johnson. I can hardly figure out why a man of this stature had to be confirmed in his job at such a critical time. Is there anything to be brought to the reader's attention to explain why this happened then ? Indeed, we have been hearing about and from Henry Cabot Lodge for quite a while at that time, not just for one year. Can the author check his/her sources and state down the real duration of this commission, please ?
 * According to United States Ambassador to South Vietnam, Lodge was appointed August 1, 1963; he presented his credentials on August 26, 1963; and left his post June 28, 1964; he was then re-appointed July 31, 1965, presented his credentials on August 25, 1965, and left his post April 25, 1967. The infoboxes need to be corrected to show he served twice, with Maxwell D. Taylor in the middle. --jpgordon:==( o ) 16:41, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see, the succession boxes on the bottom of the page are right, just not the infobox. --jpgordon:==( o ) 16:44, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

The page for Henry Cabot Lodge Jr.'s may have been protected due to a "editing war" concerning his time as Ambassador of South Vietnam. As documented by Mark Moyar’s well researched book "Triumph Forsaken" Henry Cabot Lodge Jr. probably did more damage to the U.S. war effort in Vietnam than any other single man. Here's what I posted. I suppose I could tone the language down a little but the conclusion will not change unless significant new information is presented.

Some revisionist historians have taken Lodge to task for his performance as ambassador to South Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Though lodge was likely appointed by Kennedy to enmesh a prominent republican in a controversial cause, Lodge attacked Diem's loyalty based appointments, which in hindsight were much more practical than Kennedy's in this case. Some also point to Lodge's lack of understanding of the Vietnamese culture and Vietnamese politics as well as his reliance on misinformed and crusading foreign correspondents such as David Halberstam and Neil Sheehan. They argue that these factors led him to relentlessly undermined and eventually support the coup that ultimately brought down the Diem Regime, against military and CIA recommendations. There is no doubt, based on the aftermath of the Diem coup that Lodges actions severely destabilized South Vietnam and was a major factor in the slide towards defeat for the United States. In order to accomplish the removal of Diem he disregarded orders from Kennedy against encouraging a coup, deceived the administration and disregarded better informed personnel from the military and the CIA. Kennedy eventually discovered Lodge's conniving. Most likely due to political reasons, however, he elected not to replace him. This would not be the first time that the Lodge family went in with the answer and then sought to generate the supporting evidence. Lodge Sr., who headed a special commission in 1902 to investigate U.S. attrocities in the Philippines, "ensured frienly witnesses predominated, badgered hostile witnesses, barred the public, issued no final report, and allowed only pet reporters access to its findings."(Millet and Maslowski "For The Common Defense", p296)