Talk:Hephaestus/Archive 1

Picture
Does that Wellstone! man have anything to do with anything? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.44.115.14 (talk • contribs).


 * Uh, no. That was inserted by a long-term vandal. 16:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Juvenilia
I've removed the following:


 * Hephaestus appears in the Justice League Unlimited episode "Hawk and Dove"; he is voiced by Ed Asner. In the episode, Hephaestus builds the Annihilator, a heavy-armored automaton which is fueled by rage. He sells it to Ares, who uses it to start a civil war in a third world country.


 * Hephaestus is mentioned in the webcomic Questionable Content in the comic titled "Number 547: Mythology".


 * In the computer game Diablo II, there is a unique foe guarding the "Hellforge" located in the River of Flame, which the character must defeat in order to progress with a side-quest. The demon is named Hephasto, which has possible relevance to the God Hephaestus.


 * In the anime Digimon one of Zudomon's attacks was called Vulcan's Hammer.

It all seemed too trivial. Still, I'm aware that I'm less than averagely bewitched by the charms of anime, etc. -- Hoary 22:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Aye, the point that seems to pass over many heads is that a little acquaintance with Hephaestus may explain some characters and details in these market-driven productions, and so a link is relevant there, but that the converse is not true. It depends partly in understanding converse, I suppose. --Wetman 10:00, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If BioShock is worth a mention I think the Soulcalibur games are deffinitly worth one.81.227.124.234 21:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

CooL!
I saw the epsoid of hawk and dove i must of missed it.

BUNNY! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.205.21.15 (talk) 23:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

That has nothing to do with the Hephaestus discussion. ~ Rhana ~ {♦} talk page 19:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes it does — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:2BB1:2EC0:8506:1B89:B472:1F7C (talk) 15:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Concern regarding portrait
While it is acknowledged that many forms of artwork regarding this period of history do not have the prohibition on nudity, there may be a reasoning for replacing the portrait due to potential issues regarding age appropriateness. I leave it up to the WikiProject Greece and WikiProject Mythology groups to make the final call on this as I am a newly "born" wikipedian Hasteur 05:06, 13 November 2007 (UTC) idc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.124.225.130 (talk) 17:37, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Just came back to Wikipedia after a while and noticed this. No objections to the page now. Hasteur (talk) 00:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Article Flow
Sorry if I'm stepping on toes, but I just wanted to point out that the paragraph about Hephaestus getting revenge against Hera is repeated, once in the introduction and once about his birth. I thought that to be unnecessary.

Also, the introduction section holds other unnecessary information, such as his attempted rape of Athena. A double spacing makes me assume that this may have been moved from another section of the article.

Whilst not confidant enough to alter these myself, I thought I would bring it to the attention of someone who is. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.81.200 (talk) 10:38, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Unprotected!
Unprotected! an invitation for vandalism to resume, no doubt.--Wetman (talk) 19:42, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

God of what?
Hephaestus is actually only the god of fire. The only evidence to prove he is also god of smithing and the forge is speculation from Homer's poems The Iliad and The Odyssey, which tell the story of Troy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by D43m0n1c kn1gh7 (talk • contribs) 11:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Not exactly. In a book I've read, it does say Hephaestus is the God of Fire and Blacksmith. It really depends on what version of the myth you read or have heard. ~ Rhana ~ {♦} talk page 19:33, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

A better specific citation is needed than "in a book I read," but I agree that smiths and forging are an essential part of the perceived nature of Hephaestus. However, I disagree with several places that specifically say "blacksmithing." As noted elsewhere in the article, the Mycenaean worship of Hephaestus is suggested by both a reference in their Linear B script and his presence in the Homeric epics. Granted the latter could be anachronistic, but the point remains that the Mycenaeans were a Bronze Age society. There's no clear evidence that Hephaestus' association was specifically with blacksmithing iron and not metalworking in general. I think the evidence points toward the latter, but in any case, there's no reason for the article to imply a limited association with iron-working rather than a broad association with metal-working. Ftjrwrites (talk) 22:29, 5 September 2020 (UTC)

Someone really likes the word "lame"...
This is an excerpt from the article:

Hephaestus was reported in myth as cholōs, "lame",[5] crippled, halting (ēpedanos) misshapen, and "lame" or sometimes "lame".

Is it really necessary to repeat the word 3 times? And is it just a repetition, or did someone think it would be funny to replace other adjectives with "lame"?Devil Master (talk) 21:43, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

lol. No, it isn't necessary. Two of them should be removed. ~ Rhana ~ {♦} talk page 19:35, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It's because lame is also meant crippled or injured. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.0.24.166 (talk) 01:37, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it's like people are being rude to the god like how the Greeks portrayed him as well, needs some clean-up. 174.4.163.53 (talk) 10:55, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

"Hephacules"
"He had a follower who named himself Hephacules after him." This insertion, made 22:28, 21 February 2007 by an anonymous passer-by, lasted until today. I have eliminated it. Since this article is not given any protection, I shall probably make up for the half-hour I've just spent tracking down this joker by reverting all the anon. IP edits I notice at this article, without wasting my time checking them. --Wetman (talk) 18:04, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

His name
If he was Hēphaistos in Greek and Vulcan in Latin, mightn't it be better to retitle the article Hēphaistos or Hephaistos? -- Hoary (talk)

Actually, he was Ēphaistios in Greek. I know that because: Megasquid500 (talk) 00:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) There's no letter "H" equivalent in the Greek alphabet.
 * 2) As for the 2nd "I", just look at the name "Athanásios" (which is a Greek name).


 * The English-language name is Hephaestus. In English, excruciating attempts for "correctness" have a pretentious air to them, which may be hard to detect if you are Greek or German or Hungarian. French, Spanish and Italian all have their own equivalents of familiar Greek places and names: unfamiliar ones are sometimes transcribed more accurately. But Hephaestus is familiar to most adults.--Wetman (talk) 02:06, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

reckon it's the same... lol it's Hephaestus to me —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inkweaver96 (talk • contribs) 08:55, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

adulterer's fine
What is this adulterer's fine that is mentioned in the article?

Yes I'm quit confused on this too, I'll try looking it up Ohhaieveryone (talk) 03:25, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

"Siblings" indeed
I deleted a clownish random list of "siblings" that are linked in no myth with Hephaestus but are simply other children of Hera. Listmakers (a disinfobox is just a pretentious type of listing) are unaware of misleading runaway "listings". Aphrodite, as daughter of Cronus, might be "listed" as Hera's "aunt" and thus as Hephaestus' great aunt, which would make Eros his first cousin once removed: silliness knows no boundaries. Responsible editors stick, therefore, to texts—— in which no "siblings" of Hephaestus appear. --Wetman (talk) 10:36, 19 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Though Hephaestus has been co-opted recently for a "smart" wheelchair system, I wish there were a reference to some Greek literary or pictorial source for:
 * In some myths, Hephaestus built himself a "wheeled chair" or chariot with which to move around, thus helping him overcome his lameness while showing the other gods his skill. (reference given: Jay Dolmage, "'Breathe Upon Us an Even Flame': Hephaestus, History, and the Body of Rhetoric," Rhetoric Review Vol. 25, No. 2 (2006), 119-140. 120.).
 * Has anyone seen an image of Hephaestus in a wheeled chair? --Wetman (talk) 01:05, 9 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The cited article in fact has such an image, captioned: "Figure 1: Hephaestus on a winged throne. Red figure cup by the Ambrosius Painter. Attic, ca. 510 BCE. Late Archaic. Inv. F. 2273. Destroyed in WWII. Antikensammlung, Staatliche Museen zu Berlin, Berlin, Germany." The article says of it: "In Figure 1, Hephaestus appears “able-bodied,” yet he rides a proto-wheelchair, a chariot with wings. ... In Figure 1, because he holds his tools and he rides a chariot that he has crafted, his abilities as an artisan are also depicted, and these skills are valued." Do we believe that this can reasonably be interpreted as a "proto-wheelchair" rather than, say, a "proto-ornithopter"? I don't know -- it would be nice to have confirmation from, say, a classical archaeologist or art historian rather than an English professor. --macrakis (talk) 03:06, 9 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Good call! I can't get the image through JSTOR. A winged throne is not a wheeled chair unless it has wheels: a winged chariot. Were the wheels depicted on the Ambrosius Painter cup? Then I'd be satisfied: often vase-painters followed parallel traditions, not represented by poets.--Wetman (talk) 20:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Interesting. Dragonlover21 (talk) 17:21, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

the Lame Smith in Pop culture
Should we make a section on that? especially since he was one of the main story driving characters in God of War 3-71.198.56.19 (talk) 05:36, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Question and comment
I shuffled some sections for a better sequence (epithets, mythology, symbolism) and created a section out of another one (comparative mythology from symbolism). I add a question and a comment.

1. "In one version of the myth, Prometheus stole the fire that he gave to man from Hephaestus's forge."

What's the source?

2. "There is a Temple of Hephaestus in Athens, the Hephaesteum (miscalled the "Theseum"), located near the agora, or marketplace. An Athenian founding myth tells that the city's patron godess, Athena, refused a union with Hephaestus because of his unsightly appearance and crippled nature, and that when he became angry and forceful with her, she disappeared from the bed. His ejaculation landed on the earth, impregnating Gaia, who subsequently gave birth to Erichthonius of Athens"

This is not consistent with the article on Erechtheus.

ICE77 (talk) 07:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Etymology
In a Linear B inscription appears the name a-pa-i-ti-jo who is probably Hephaistos or "Haphaistios" The name seems to be related with the Minoan city Phaistos but I admit that it is unsourced. I took into account that in the well-known genealogical tree of Kinaithon ( Pausan. VIII 53,5) Malten interpreted rightly "Phaistos" instead of "Hephaistos". (Some other translators interpreted "Hephaistos"). In Linear A the name for Phaistos is Pa-i-to. Jestmoon jest 22:05, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Creator god?
Is he not the Creator god of the earth and all nature in ancient Greek religion? He was equated with Ptah so this only seems logical to include that in this article. 174.4.163.53 (talk) 09:33, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Definitely not. Pretty sure the creator god/goddess is Gaia. Maybe Rhea, but I think it's Gaia. Dragonlover21 (talk) 17:18, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

The creator God is Cronos because he created time/ existence. Before him the world was "timeless."--Mr. 123453334 (talk) 01:08, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Parentage subsection
I rewrote most of the subsection on the parentage so each available classical source I could find can be compared, avoiding confusion and contradictions. Sources and links for each are provided (Hesiod, Homer (2) and Pseudo-Apollodorus).

ICE77 (talk) 08:35, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

A suggestion for improving this article
This article is written and organized as though Hephaestus is an actual living-and-breathing character. It’s written like it’s an article on a person or on a zebra. In that way, it isn’t as much help as it could be to those who are interested in studying the myths and the literature. The important sources tend to be confined to footnotes, or sometimes fragmentary, or scattered about or jumbled together. I think the article would be improved if it had a section on Hephaestus in Hesiod, and another section on Hephaestus in The Iliad, etc. Another illustration of this same problem is that if a reader wants to find out about Hephaestus — as he plays an important role in Aeschylus — you have to read the entire article just to find out whether Aeschylus is included or not.GümsGrammatiçus (talk) 15:25, 16 October 2020 (UTC)