Talk:Herbert of Winchester

Is Herbert of Winchester really Herbert fitzAlberic?
There seems to be some confusion about the Herbert fitzHerbert data. This shows Herbert of Winchester as the same as Herbert fitzAlberic but it seems using Charles Clays Early Yorkshire Charters these seem to be different people. EYC shows that the brother of William, Archbishop of York, was indeed Herbert FitzHerbert, Chamberlain to the King of Scots. Emma, daughter of Count Stephen Henry of Blois is, from a chronicler, William's mother. Their father was Herbert FitzAlberic. Albericus, or Aubrey, of Tourp was the Chamberlain to Matilda of Scotland, Queen of King Henry and is known as "of Tourp", because he gave some land in Tourp, in the Cotentin, to the Monastery of Montebourg. Herbert FitzHerbert, Chamberlain to the King of Scots was married to Millisent daughter of Maud and neptis of Osbert the Sheriff of Yorks

Herbert FitzHerbert, Chamberlain to King Henry was the son of Herbert of Winchester, but they apparently were not of the same family. Herbert FitzHerbert the Chamberlain of King Henry married Sybil Corbet and had issue another Herbert FitzHerbert who married Lucy of Hereford and had sons Piers fitzHerbert and Matthew fitzHerbert.

Has anyone else run in to this or see a different way this all fits? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.188.247.24 (talk) 14:32, 4 June 2013 (UTC)


 * I think you are relying too much on Clay - who is much older than the sources used in this article. Keats-Rohan Domesday Descendants p. 199 has "Cameraius, Herbert II son of Herbert fitz Alberic and brother of William archbiship of York. He was given in marriage Milisendis, grand-daughter and heiress of Osbert the sherif of Lincolnshire, by Henry I. Around 1156 he became chamberlain to David King of Scots." Keats-Rohan also in Domesday People p. 250 "Herbert Filius Alberici Domesday tenatnt of the archbishop of York; identifiable from Lindsey Survey 16.4. Father of Herbert camerarius (regis Scotiae) and William archbishop of York." Burton's Oxford Dictionary of National Biography article on William fitzHerbert states "His [William fitzHerbert] father, Herbert of Winchester, has traditionally been identified as the illegitimate son of Herbert (II), count of Maine, and his mother as Emma, illegitimate daughter of Stephen, count of Blois, and thus half-sister of King Stephen. However these identifications appear to be late additions to his genealogy. Herbert's parents are unknown, and there is evidence that his wife was not a member of the house of Blois but rather the daughter of Hunger fitz Odin, Domesday tenant of Broad Windsor, Dorset. Domesday Book shows Herbert to have been a Hampshire landowner, of local significance only. Under William II he was chamberlain of the Winchester treasury and after c.1100 combined the office with that of treasurer. It has been traditional to place Herbert's death in 1129 or 1130, when the pipe roll records his son, Herbert, paying a relief for his father's lands. However, there is no definite record of Herbert after 1111, and a convincing case can be made for his identification with ‘H. the Chamberlain’ whom Suger of St Denis named as the would-be assassin of Henry I in 1118, mutilated by Henry in punishment." Norton in his biography of William of York is clear that Herbert fitz Alberic is the same person as Herbert the Chamberlain.Ealdgyth - Talk 19:33, 5 June 2013 (UTC)