Talk:Herbie Hide

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How come we have two different Dates of birth for him??? 77.100.142.47 17:31, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Fixed --LiamE 00:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

As a heavyweight Hide weighed as high as 231lbs and often fought above 220. He "only" gave away 27 and 24lbs to Bowe and Klitschko respectively. The article overplays the 'small heavyweight' theme - in terms of weight he was at least as big as Tyson, Holyfield and Chris Byrd. Hide was found wanting in major fights due to physical and mental frailty, rather than simply a lack of size.

Hide's campaign at Cruiserweight being "eagerly anticipated" is debatable. He this far has fought two fighters with losing records, and seems less than eager to test himself at a higher level. The assertion that other fighters ducked Hide is without firm basis and should be removed. Benbrindon 17:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As for the the small heavyweight being overplayed, its mentioned but not not overplayed to my mind except for the Bowe man/boy comment which I think has to go. Yes he fought as heavy as 230ish but he was clearly bulked up and not in great shape at that sort of weight as he was 15 to 20lb lighter. Its odd that you compare him to Holyfield and Tyson. Tyson was NEVER small for a heavyweight, only a bit short. Holyfield on the other hand is a better comparison. Holyfield, like Hide is more a natural crusierweight - in fact he was nigh on untouchable at that weight. When he moved up to heavy he managed to put on solid muscle, which Hide has appeared unable to emulate. I can't recall Holyfield carrying any extra weight into any fight to get his weight up unlike Hide. Holyfield's ability to step up from cruiser to heavy is truly exceptional. In comparison to the top echelon of heavyweight fighters over that last decade or so he was/is indeed small - closer to Tyson and Holyfield than the others such as Bowe, Lewis and Klitchhko. None of those guys could realistically fought at 200lb let alone 190lb other than of course Holyfield. 24-27lb is far from an insignificant margin to give away to a world class boxer. Bowe has even been known to enter the ring at 280! The old addage comes into play, the good big'un will always beat the good little'un. Frankly, when he fought the naturally big and skillful fighters (ie Bowe, Tucker and Vitali) he looked like a fighter from a lower division. The "eagerly anticipated" bit is a direct lift from a boxing site article - should be sourced but doesnt appear to be. I think that was me that put that in so I deserve a slap but hey. I'll see if I can find the article again and ref it. Finally, fighters ducking Hide has very firm basis at domestic level. Audley Harrison is the most recent good example. He was probably right to do so too judging by his performances since. Basically, if you were the manager of a decent up and coming boxer would you want to put him in with a fast, awkward opponent with a great knockout record? --LiamE 02:33, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Further to me comments above this article gives Hide's normal weight as 206. "When I fought Riddick Bowe my natural weight was only 14 stone 7 lbs, (203lbs) but I forced myself to eat 6 times a day and drink protein drink after protein drink. It never felt right to bulk up like that" This one says he used weights under his tracksuit to appear heavier than he was. "I was never really a heavyweight, I fought them because I could beat heavyweights, but I was never a heavyweight." Surely any heavyweight that can make the cruiserweight limit without effort is, by definition, small for a heavyweight. As for being less eager to test himself to test himself at a higher level, that is obviously complete rubbish. he didnt't need to fight Bowe or Vitali when he did - he could of opted for far easier fights, frankly he could hardly of opted for any harder. I don't exactly see any decent cruiserweights lining up to fight him or calling him out - either at domestic or world level. --LiamE 16:49, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry about the unsourced change - should really have brought it here first. I think if Hide himself says that he was naturally around 203 without artificial bulk, then I don't think I can disagree with that (you could argue that he is talking up his chances at cruiser of course). Think on reflection I may have let a dislike of Hide get in the way - the entry now appears balanced and well sourced --Benbrindon 21:23, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

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