Talk:Hercule

Mr Satan vs Android 18
I have just made a few minor edits to this page, changing some references to "Satan" to "Mr. Satan". I have also changed the reference to the battle between Mr Satan and Android 18, in that it was 18 who initiated the ¥20mln discussion, and not Mr Satan. Admittedly, the only DBZ I've seen is a badly-subbed version, though I've been told that the dialogue and storylines are quite different in parts. So if my edits are not correct according to the English dub, please re-edit.

I've also added a heading to the next section to this discussion page (so it doesn't seem part of my addition). For the sake of adding my 2p to that issue, I would also be reluctant to change the name of this page. From a technical point of view, it would mean tracing links to avoid secondary, tertiary, ... redirections and redirect loops.

On another note, the name "Hercules" is from Roman mythology; his Greek equivalent is "Heracles".

--Kain 21:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Renaming of this page
I disagree with the renaming of this page. Although "Mr. Satan" has the advantage that it does not need to be disambiguated, the "Google test" shows that "Hercule" is the most common name this character is known by. I know that some hardcore fans are disappointed with Funimation's name change, but the reality is that "Hercule" is the common name and "Hercule" should stay the title of the Wikipedia article. (A lot of DBA articles fail this test, we should probably clean them up to common usage. That would be a good project.) JRP

I feel that the best solution to this problem would be to have a link to a "Mr. Satan" page on the Hercule (disambiguation) page. Following this same logic, "Hercule (Dragon Ball)" should be a redirect page to "Mr. Satan." 

Google test:
 * 18,200 hits on Google for "Mr. Satan" dragonball
 * 34,900 hits on Google for Hercule dragonball

Hercule is the more common name and it should be how Wikipedia refers to the character, at least for the main article. "Mr Satan" should continue to be a redirect and we should have a good explanation paragraph about the new name and explaining why Viz/Funimation changed it. Only the extreme fans even know the name isn't really Hercule and we should not be catering articles to them. This is a general purpose encyclopedia. (That said, there are a lot of DBZ articles with worse names. Some of them I am even responsible for and regret.) JRP

I disagree. As long as the redirects are there, keeping the page at "Mr. Satan" should work fine. Since the redirects are (relatively) instantaneous, there is no difference in the amount of effort needed to direct people to the right page.--Julian Grybowski 04:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Mr. Satan is the official US name, on the uncut DVDs. Hercule is the censored name. The most accurate name is the best name, and even then, this is the official English name, so it should remain the same. -- A Link to the Past 20:33, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

Character image
I would like to add a picture to this article, though there seems to be an issue. The image markup for the "Dragon Ball Characters" template would appear to be hard-coded, so there is no choice but to upload it to "Mr._Satan_photo.jpg". However, this doesn't work because of the period in "mister." Therefore, I vote that this page be moved to either "Mr Satan" or "Mister Satan" (or that another suitable workaround be used) so an image will work.

I have an image uploaded. Please let me know if this is acceptable for the article.



--Julian Grybowski 2 July 2005 03:11 (UTC)
 * Does Sushil Rudranath own the copyright on the derived work? (And therefore can only be included with permission?) My *understanding*, though not certainty and I can't get a good admin answer on the question, is that manga scans and anime captures are fair use, but using a copyrighted image directly is not. But it gets murky with fan art and such. But the picture is a perfect representation of the character. :) JRP 01:37, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Do NOT move it boldly.
I don't care if you're told to be bold, there is a debate over this, and if you have no consensus for you, do NOT move it. There's more people for Mr. Satan, and Mr. Satan is the official English name.

Peceding unsigned comment by User:A Link to the Past 23:30, 25 July 2005


 * I agree. Concensus here has been reached with "Mr. Satan" as the title. I only mention this because I made the opposite argument above and while I do believe that we should follow the public's lead, this name is more correct technically. But there will be tons of these DB debates and we should adopt a uniform policy, whatever that is. What "Kuririn" vs "Krillin"? "Son Goku" vs "Goku"? "Tenshinhan" vs "Tien Shinhan"? "Master Roshi" vs "Muten-Roshi" vs "Kame-sennin" vs "Turtle Hermit"? The list goes on and on and on... JRP
 * That's true, but Hercule is only more common because it's what appears on the edited for TV shows. In the unedited version, this is official. FUNi acknowledges Mr. Satan's officiality. As for Kuririn, I'm not saying that we should use the Japanese versions, or the proper translations (Kuririn would be Kulilin), but Mr. Satan is the official name all over the world. -- A Link to the Past 01:48, July 26, 2005 (UTC)


 * The main reason I moved it was to upload an image, but i still couldn't get it to work. Anyway, I put an image on the page now so it doesn't matter. Supersaiyanplough|(talk) 07:48, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually "Kuririn" is the more "correct"; Japanese has "r" but no "l", although in romanising, the Japanese tend to take liberties in some of the ambiguities, hence we see Kuririn with a "Kulilin" cap (I think in one of the early episodes when he, Gohan, and Bulma first arrive on Namek). --Kain 21:16, 27 March 2006 (UTC)