Talk:Hereditary hemorrhagic telangiectasia

For
For some reason, this condition has been reported to respond to sirolimus. Enter the trials. JFW | T@lk  04:57, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Loeys-Dietz syndrome, a hereditary aneurysmatic condition, has also been linked to abnormal TGF signalling. JFW | T@lk  22:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Redirection Wrong
Osler Weber Rendu should redirect to this page.

Currently Rendu Osler Weber and Rendu Weber Osler redirect here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.88.105.250 (talk) 13:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

I don't know how to add it, but I searched for Osler-Weber-Rendu and got nothing. Does anyone know how to add a redirect? 24.99.86.24 (talk) 03:13, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Differences in clinical expression
The different genetic variants have differing clinical expressions: JFW |  T@lk  09:43, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Osler
Is this Osler's original paper: http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/os1/1/53 JFW | T@lk  22:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No, it was 1901. This is about the eponym: JFW |  T@lk  19:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Liver
HHT does the liver. JFW | T@lk  19:31, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Bevacizumab
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/360/20/2143 is an early report of anti-VEGF treatment, with interesting results. Might be notable. JFW | T@lk  09:04, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Mechanism
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/39482 - real-time AVM formation studied in animal model of AKT1 mutation. JFW | T@lk  23:07, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Reviews for expansion
Some sources that might be useful for an eventual expansion:
 * J Thromb Haemost 2010 ( - French)
 * CMAJ 2009 ( - Canadian)
 * Eur J Hum Genet 2009 ( - British)

I might do some work here soon. JFW | T@lk  09:32, 4 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Have just discovered the 2009 J Med Genet consensus guideline. I shall be quoting from this when it comes to diagnosis and treatment. JFW | T@lk  20:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Updating
I've started updating the article from a number of sources. For the backbone I'm using Govani & Shovlin, which is readable, free and comprehensive, but for the diagnosis and treatment I shall have to source much of what I write to the Canadian 2006 consensus guidelines. I might supplement particular sections with the ERJ and Liver Int reviews (already cited). If there are still gaps in the content I might dip into textbooks, but currently there is plently for MEDRS available.

Sections:
 * Signs & symptoms
 * Genetics
 * Pathogenesis - will be mostly from Govani, but may use NEJM 1995 too
 * Actually, Dupuis is very good on this. Now this section needs an image!
 * Diagnosis - to cover the clinical and genetic diagnosis
 * Criteria - expand to include Govani's mention of those not meeting criteria but having strong family history
 * Treatment - need a source from an ENT perspective
 * Epidemiology - age at diagnosis, international distribution & should include prognosis
 * History

As always, any help is appreciated, but I'm going to do the usual and keep on working on this until it is a GA candidate. JFW | T@lk  09:57, 19 July 2010 (UTC)


 * HHT is clearly in the air, what with the Lancet case report this week, which reminded me to find a source for platypnea in pAVMs. JFW | T@lk  22:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


 * HHT is definitely in the air! NEJM (clinical problem solving) in June: JFW |  T@lk  19:04, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Some people kindly pointed me to the identity of F.M. Hanes. has him as a professor of medicine at Duke. Rather appropriate that most early genetic linkage work was done there! JFW | T@lk  20:27, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Quandary
I'm having trouble with the inclusion of the following reference:



On the one hand, it is a very interesting paper with both experimental and clinical data showing that thalidomide markedly reduces bleeding and telangiectasia formation. At the same time, it is not technically a WP:MEDRS and needs to remain in the incubator unless there is a secondary source to support its actual relevance to patients. Thalidomide is toxic (it can cause polyneuropathy and thrombosis) and has a lugubrious teratogenic history; acceptance in the HHT community may take a while.

There is more secondary sourcing about bevacizumab, but again this is still experimental and probably does not warrant inclusion on this page. It is not mentioned in the 2009 guideline, for instance. JFW | T@lk  06:51, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Finishing touches before GAC
I have now expanded the entire article. I've left a number of items uncovered, which could of course be developed if deemed important by others or reviewers.
 * The first is migraine - it is reported in people with CAVMs as well as PAVMs and may have something to do with shunt phenomena, but its exact place in HHT is unclear and I don't recall reading anything about the symptoms responding to embolisation of PAVMs. (Added: is a review that provides some context.)
 * The second is PAH. I've mentioned it as an aside on two occasions, and the link with TGF signalling is more than simply interesting, but its diagnosis and treatment are a whole separate chapter that is best dealt with in the mother article on PAH; Faughan's ERJ 2009 article has a lot of material on it, but then this appeared in a theme issue about PAH and it is probably not representative. Govani & Shovlin have some nifty content (including sample L&R heart catheter data) on the subject (but their institution is the national referral centre for PAH in the UK).
 * The third is spinal AVMs. I've mentioned it in passing, but even the Guideline regards it as so uncommon that it cannot make recommendations other than concerning the mode of imaging.
 * The fourth is the thrombotic diathesis and immunodeficiency alluded to by Govani & Shovlin.

Very keen to hear if anyone has strong feelings about these matters. I've emailed Dr Faughnan to enquire when JMG will be printing the Guideline, which was formulated in 2006 but only submitted in 2009. JFW | T@lk  20:41, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

More review
10.1016/j.blre.2010.07.001 is Shovlin's review in Blood Rev 2010. Shall read. JFW &#124; T@lk  22:22, 19 May 2011 (UTC)


 * 10.1097/GIM.0b013e3182136d32 is a GeneTests review from Genet Med (2011). JFW &#124; T@lk  21:00, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Another review
Am FP http://www.aafp.org/afp/2010/1001/p785.html -- Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:29, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Not too bad, but bases itself on lots of slightly outdated sources. Also makes no reference to the international consensus guidelines. JFW &#124; T@lk  10:41, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Clinical trials
added the following content:

Because HHT is most likely due to abnormally increased angiogenesis, several studies have investigated the potential therapeutic effect in HHT patients of approved angiogenesis inhibitors. Bevacizumab (Avastin) is a humanized monoclonal VEGF antibody that prevents endothelial cell proliferation and angiogenesis and is licensed to treat various cancers. Bevacizumab has been used off-label in the treatment of HHT-associated complications since 2008. In 2012, a study published in JAMA reported that bevacizumab infusion (5 mg per kg, every 14 days for a total of 6 injections) in 25 HHT patients followed up for 6 months after the beginning of the treatment, was associated with a decrease in cardiac output and reduced duration and number of episodes of epistaxis

Thalidomide, an anti-nausea and sedative drug associated with anti-angiogenic properties, was reported to induce vessel maturation in an experimental mouse model of HHT and to reduce the severity and frequency of nosebleeds in the majority of a group of 7 HHT patients. The blood hemoglobin levels of these treated patients rose as a result of reduced hemorrhage and enhanced blood vessel stabilization.

I am aware of experimental work with bevacizumab and thalidomide, but none of the aforementioned sources is a WP:MEDRS-compatible secondary source. Even recent reviews (i.e. the ones I used in the writing of much of the article) don't spend much time on them. I would much prefer trying to identify a good secondary source to discuss these experimental treatments, either in the "Treatment" section or in a new section to be called "Research directions". JFW &#124; T@lk  20:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * 10.1016/j.blre.2010.07.001 is a good secondary source in Blood Rev (already mentioned above) which discusses both treatments. For some obscure reason, bevacizumab is consistently spelled "Bevazicimub". If I find the time I will work the conclusions from this article into this entry. JFW &#124; T@lk  20:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

disagrees that the mentioned sources in the above section "Clinical trials" are not WP:MEDRS-compatible. All citations are peer-reviewed scientific articles and thus represent "reliable, third-party, published sources and accurately reflect current medical knowledge". I agree, however, that this section is not accurately named and could be incorporated in the "Treatment" section. I would suggest to rename it "Experimental treatments" and make it a sub-section of the "Treatment" section. Please advice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cytoscape55 (talk • contribs)


 * I think you're misunderstanding the purpose of MEDRS. If secondary sources are available, these are vastly preferable over small case series (these were not even randomised controlled trials, because HHT is too rare to have properly designed RCTs). You will notice that the best medical articles on Wikipedia are built almost entirely on secondary sources. JFW &#124; T@lk  22:48, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

The goal of the section is not to conclude that the 2 mentioned drugs are effective treatments (a conclusion that, I agree, you only reach after RCT), but rather to report promising pre-clinical and clinical data published in high-profile scientific journals, e.g., JAMA (impact factor: 30) and Nat Med (impact factor: 22). I think it is a reliable and important information for the reader. In that context, I agree that referring to "clinical trials" could be misleading. Would you agree to maintain the section under another title? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cytoscape55 (talk • contribs) 23:53, 26 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Primary research remains primary research, even in journals as prominent as JAMA and NEJM. Secondary sources really trump primary sources, even if they refer to bevacizumab as "bevazicimub". JFW &#124; T@lk  17:40, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

This discussion is not going anywhere. You are clearly getting confused between primary research (first report of a specific set of data) and primary source ("one in which the authors directly participated in the research or documented their personal experiences"). Further, a review article of the literature is not necessary a secondary source. The author of the review paper can cite its own research. The review is in this case a primary source. Read and understand WP:MEDRS before using it to block correctly referenced information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.14.187.81 (talk) 22:56, 27 May 2013 (UTC)


 * I presume you are the same editor, just editing from an IP account. I know perfectly well what I mean by a primary source. I am not delighted that the content has been reinserted without discussion, but at least it now prominently features some secondary sources (Shovlin's review and the Franchini review). JFW &#124; T@lk  22:23, 29 May 2013 (UTC)


 * The new addition can stand, but I have removed a source that is of historical interest only. JFW &#124; T@lk  23:43, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Review
Br J Haem 10.1111/bjh.13606. To be used for updates. JFW &#124; T@lk  09:49, 28 July 2015 (UTC)


 * Neuroradiology 10.1016/j.neurad.2016.02.005 JFW &#124; T@lk  08:52, 27 June 2016 (UTC)


 * 10.1017/S0022215115000365 Evidence-based management of epistaxis in hereditary haemorrhagic telangiectasia JFW &#124; T@lk  10:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

AV Malformation Redundancy
AV Malformation is already covered in considerable detail here. Can we reduce it's redundancy on this page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Iiibalesiii (talk • contribs) 20:08, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Second international guidelines
10.7326/M20-1443 Annals JFW &#124; T@lk  13:47, 9 September 2020 (UTC)


 * 10.1016/j.ejmg.2021.104370 - European framework. JFW &#124; T@lk  16:37, 9 February 2022 (UTC)