Talk:Hereford

Founding Date?
This article has the founding as 'around 700 AD' but the article on the Bishop of Hereford says the See was founded in 676. Surely there must have been a settlement there before then or could the See have been founded on a 'green field' site? --Cavrdg 13:01, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

I think the point missing here is that Hereford really didn't appear out of the blue in either 700AD nor 676AD. It was re-named Hereford once the assimilation into Mercia was completed in the 8th Century. "Hereford" and the Welsh kingdom of Ergyng (the sister kingdom of Gwent) has many hundreds of years of history before the Mercians "founded" the town and you may be interested to learn that it was not until the Laws In Wales Acts of 1535 and 1542 that the uncertainty over the border was unilaterally put to bed by English Law. However, Herefordshire remained predominantly Welsh speaking until the 17th century with Welsh being spoken as late as 1750 in the Kentchurch area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.204.196 (talk) 15:58, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

By-pass
Is there a firm plan for a by-pass? All I could see in the Highways Agency A49 Route Strategy is, under Route Outcome 6, a target to undertake studies to identify appropriate measures with a timescale of complete initial studies by 2008.--Cavrdg 12:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * This is from a couple of years ago. Virginia said last year that an incoming Conservative government would fully commit to an up-to-date study of the volume of traffic which passes through and terminates in Hereford (the last one having taken place in the early 1990's. 21:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Pronounciation?
The Welsh name and pronounciation are provided, but a phonetic guide would be helpful in English as well. How is Hereford pronounced? Is it trisyllabic or bisyllabic?


 * It is pronounced trisyllabically, as something like 'hěrəfüd' 80.255 01:43, 21 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Why not add this to the article? Or am I the only one who thought it might be "Here" (not "there") "Ford" (Model T)?


 * Having lived in Hereford all my life.... Astrolox 02:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually in my last edit I didn't describe that correctly at all, (Please ignore it). I suppose I would describe it as Hair-Re-Fud. If using a local accent you usually drop the H, being more Ere-Fud. I would give you a phonetic guide but I haven't a clue how they work. Astrolox 02:32, 21 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, International Phonetic Alphabet gives you one option but I suspect the number of readers who would get it to display correctly and then understand it would be very small. I'd say Herry-furd and Erry-fud would do for renderings of the more and less posh versions respectively. --Cavrdg 08:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Some people do pronounce the end of the word as "Ford", as rhyming with Chord. But, most do say it more like "Fudd", rhyming with Could. The start of the word is just like as said. It's an easy word to pronounce, anyway --Cowards 16:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Redevelopment
How about a section on the redevelopment? Edgar Street, High Town, Asda, Left Bank, etc. Could be interesting.

Origins of the Name
I was always told that the name of Hereford stems from earlier Welsh names - as the area around Hereford was frequently under Welsh control in the early years of the city's existance. The idea of 'here ford' seems a little convenient and too close to modern English. I don't doubt that it may very well be that but surely a citation should be attributed to this? --80.43.95.32 01:54, 26 November 2006 (UTC) Is it possible that "Hereford" could just be an anglicized misrendering of "Henffordd"? There are plenty of examples of Welsh names being corrupted to create the English name. Is there any evidence that "Hereford" is derived from English rather than from Welsh? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.149.18.9 (talk) 09:32, 17 November 2019 (UTC)

Rewrite?
Or should I just say "write" since this article is quite small anyway? Is anyone interested in taking on this article properly i.e. doing away with pretty much everything that is on the page now and starting again with full sections on history, economy, demographics, etc. I'm not much of a history person so anything I write would be pretty poor but I'm happy to start writing a "Culture and society" section and a "Politics" section. There's a lot of information at the Hereford Times archive for pointers to economy and such like and the references here are an ideal starting point for a history section.WindsorFan 17:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Civil Parish
I've added a fact template to the claim in the section "Local Government" as it states that Herefors is one of only seven civil parishes to have city status, and yet the civil parish entry claims there are six. It may be that one is referring to just England, and the other to perhaps England and wales (where civil parishes no longer exist), but I think this apparent inconsistency needs resolving in some way. I wonder if anyone else knows how to check this quickly? DDStretch   (talk)  21:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * City status in the United Kingdom has a list of cities and their types of local government. The missing one of the seven is Truro.  I did wonder whether the omission was a result of Cornish Nationalists who claim Cornwall is not part of England but, from the history, it looks like it was just an oversight so I have updated the civil parish article.  --Cavrdg 13:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Welsh name of Hereford
This should stand because of the special realtionbship between the Marcher towns and cities and Wales. I, for example, was raised in Wales but born in Salop. Many border communities look East to England and always have done so. Many drover routes ended at Hereford, Gloucester, Chester & Salop. --MJB (talk) 14:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree - you will see the Welsh name on signposts in Wales and as another post here says Welsh is likely the origin of the name. Johnrcrellin (talk) 06:28, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Request for Consensus: Welsh Name (copied from Shrewsbury but same debate)
An anonymous user (User:217.39.132.9) has removed the Welsh pronounciation from the introduction repeatedly. I am not neccessarily opposed to this, because I personally don't see why it needs to be in the opening line either, but war-reverting with User:Maxburgoyne and User:Dpaajones is clearly not the answer. Perhaps a consensus needs to be reached with all editors. Asdfasdf1231234 (talk) 14:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC) Thank you. All the great Marcher towns and cities (Ludlow - once the capital of Wales and the Marches - Chester, Hereford and Shrewsbury) have a unique relationship with Wales. Alsace-Lorraine in France and its link with Germany is similar. I was raised in Knighton and we saw Salop, Ludlow and Hereford as our local centres; not LLandrindod Wells or Abergavenny (Y Fenni). The Welsh names are ancient and speak eloquently of this Marcher link. We are not suggesting a list of irrelevant Dutch, Spanish & Innuit names. Finally, English alternatives are usually given for Welsh towns. --MJB (talk) 15:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The reason Welsh towns have both names listed when available is because Wales has two official languages, English and Welsh. England has only one official language, English. As such only English names should be shown on articles for English towns. 217.39.132.9 (talk) 16:47, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you'd said that a long time ago rather than edit-warring and breaching WP:3RR you would have saved some unnecessary drama. As it happens, I agree. These are, although in the Marches, English towns. Even an edit summary would have helped. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 16:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * My two cents to this is that as a resident of Hereford, it would be wrong to include hereford's welsh name - as rightly said it isnt in wales. Does someone really want to be listing every town/city names in other languages? Its no different. Hereford is not in or belong to wales. H0sting (talk) 08:40, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

It's always been a city very much connected with Wales and Welsh affairs. Johnrcrellin (talk) 10:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Only because of its proximity. The city is still english, and doesnt speak welsh.H0sting (talk) 10:14, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Surely the point is that the Welsh name of Hereford might be of relevance to Welsh speakers, to whom it is an important city ? (And historically even more so - drovers etc). Is the article only for Herefordians - I think not ? I am English myself but I do find the additude of many on this issue insufferably "English" in a bad way ! Johnrcrellin (talk) 10:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

It is one tiny addition acknowledging a historic truth. My family on my father's side - Burgoyne - has been in Herefordshire for 300 yrs + and on my mother's side - Parry - in Wales for longer, so please do not overplay the ". . . I am from Hereford" trump card. --MJB (talk) 12:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It makes sense to include the Welsh name- but only if a cooked lump of dough is referred to either as "brith" or "bread" in Hereford, and by the same token, Shrewsbury. On the other hand, I am planning to go to Eboracum/Jorvik for a couple of days so may not have time to argue this out. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 13:23, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sadly your contribution lacks both wit and any attempt at research; the York page does make reference to the Roman and Latin names. QED. By the way, bread is bara in Welsh; brith is currant. --MJB (talk) 14:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I have now had a little time to do some research. Wikipedia policy and guidelines, as far as I can tell, are silent on this kind of situation. So I sought outside authority, without much luck. There are references to Hengoed, but not as a current alternative to Hereford. I have been unable to find any authoritative website (whether national or local government) making this equation. Sure, the article for York refers to Eboracum and Jorvik, but not in the very first sentence as current usage. So I'd suggest either authority is provided for this use or we raise a request for comment to assess community opinion. It would also help if we wound down the personal angle on this. It should be a matter of fact, and fact alone. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 15:02, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the Welsh name for Hereford, Henfordd, is in very common usage. Google it, or("Hengoed" is another place entirely.) It is also written "Henffordd", as in:.

I will add something with more subtlety that before. Howard Alexander (talk) 22:39, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Fine, if you can cite any authority that "Henfordd" is currently an official name for Hereford, that would be acceptable. What its name may be in Welsh is probably irrelevant, because, as far as I am aware, Hereford remains in England. It's OK for Cardiff to also be referred to as Caerdydd, because Wales has two official languages; England does not. What the Welsh Wikipedia does, with the greatest respect to it, is irrelevant to the English language Wikipedia. It's not a nationalist issue; it's a geographical and political (small "p") issue. My opinion, FWIW, is that "Henfordd" should not be referred to as an official alternative to "Hereford" in the lead, because legally, it isn't; as it is now, later on in the article, I don't have an issue with. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 22:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * In agreement of the solution, or at least until wikipedia bring up guidelines about this sort of situation H0sting (talk) 23:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The guidelines are here and here but neither is prescriptive in this case. Reading these together, I can see an argument for "Henfordd" being an acceptable alternative name for "Hereford" in the lead if it can be shown to be shown to have substantial acceptance, so I'd say the ball remains within the court of those seeking to have it there to provide evidence of this usage, otherwise, I'd argue the current status of the article adequately represents the situation without going through this argument ad nauseam. Propose it stays as it is. -- Rodhullandemu  (Talk) 00:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, agree it stays as it is then H0sting (talk) 08:25, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not going to re-instate the Welsh version as it looks like a consensus has been reached to leave it out for now, but just for information the Welsh name for Hereford is 'Henffordd' not 'Henfordd' and it's in use today. Here are examples: by the BBC discussing Hereford FC, and by weather warnings by the Environment Agency (where it preceeded by ' Sir ' it refers to Shropshire, and by ' Dinas ' it refers to the city itself). Brith BTW means 'spekled'.--Rhyswynne (talk) 16:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Beg your pardon, I see the Welsh name(s) is mentioned later in the article. I'm going to change the " Henfordd (or Henffordd) " to Henffordd (or Henfordd) ". I'd never come across the Henfordd spelling before, but as with a lot of Welsh names with a ff (which gives the English 'f' sound) in it, it may have been mis-spelt over time (a single f gives the 'v' sound').  On Google searches for instance, Henffordd appears 6,000+ times compraed to 129 mentions of Henfordd.--Rhyswynne (talk) 17:05, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Discussion about addition of Welsh names to articles about English settlements
Since this matter has been raised on a number of pages now, and is ongoing, I think it best to refer people to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements/Archive 2 and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements/Archive 2 where the matter is being discussed for a number of articles (at least 4) about English settlements in which Welsh names have recently been added. DDStretch   (talk)  17:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC) bollocks to the welsh............... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.10.26 (talk) 19:35, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject Herefordshire
I was wondering whether anyone would be interested in helping to start a Herefordshire WikiProject. I got WikiProject Edinburgh off the ground a few months ago and am looking to start a few others so we can get better coverage of some of the UK's cities and counties. As Hereford has a long and interesting history I think it could be a useful collaboration. Any thoughts? TheRetroGuy (talk) 21:03, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've started a very basic page for WikiProject Herefordshire to get it up and running. Feel free to help if you can. Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 19:26, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Hereford College of Education
Just wondering if Hereford College of Education and Hereford Teacher Training College were one and the same. It would seem odd for there to have two teacher training colleges in such a small place. Can anyone help? Cheers TheRetroGuy (talk) 21:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Does anybody know what year the college was established? I've Googled it to death without success so thought I'd try my luck here. TheRetroGuy (talk) 11:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * After all that and I just found the answer. Apparently it was 1902

Counties without a university
I know this is probably not the place to ask, but since it is mentioned in the article, which three English counties don't have a university? Herefordshire is obviously one, but what are the other two? TheRetroGuy (talk) 15:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe Suffolk was the fourth one, but now has University Campus Suffolk. - Scribble Monkey (talk) 16:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Good question: definitely Cornwall, hence the existence of Combined Universities in Cornwall project (the University of Exeter has a campus however); Wiltshire? (although Bath Spa University have a campus at Corsham); Shropshire? (although the University of Wolverhampton have a campus in Telford), which makes four???Lozleader (talk) 12:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Shropshire can be crossed off the short list also because of the University Centre Shrewsbury (offshoot University of Chester)Cloptonson (talk) 10:42, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Climate Data
Please do not revert the changes I have made to the climate section. It took me over 6 hours to do what I have done so far, but I am still not finished - note the provisionial record low values from weather 2, not as reliable as this source http://en.tutiempo.net/climate/ws-35220.html. If you would like you can go through all the months from Sep 2001 until Jun 2015, and work out the record low values per month, this is what I did with the record highs and that bit on it's own took over half the time of editing the section. I am planning on changing the record lows tomorrow, or when next possible, too much for one afternoon. Help is greatly appreciated, but remember, please consult this talk page and then wait at least 24 hours before making any changes except to the record lows. Also, please note, the record high temperature may have been surpassed on 1 July, but this information is not yet available. If it is higher, then feel free to change this as well, once the information becomes available--188.221.224.199 (talk) 22:35, 12 August 2015 (BST)
 * Consensus seems to be that climate is best covered at the county level rather than for every settlement. Apart from that Wikipedia just reports what published sources say. Calculating stuff from primary sources is original research, and if taken from more than one source may be synthesis.Charles (talk) 21:31, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * If I gather from the fact that this IP editor has been blocked for block evasion, I think it is a long-term vandal I came across another IP Sock a few months ago. I am certain they are done with this article, but others will follow, I am sure.  Scr ★ pIron IV 21:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

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Horton
I have a reference to Horton, County of Hereford, home of one Thomas Goode, with several significant descendants in South Australia. Is this an historical place or a typographical error, if so, any ideas to what it may refer? My AA Big Road Atlas yields no clues. Doug butler (talk) 22:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

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A small-scale edit war
Can I just gently remind all editors of the BRD requirements. I hope a small-scale edit war currently happening doesn't get worse. Thank you. DDStretch   (talk)  09:57, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

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Spelling in quotations
I recently changed a quotation to the cited source with the edit summary 'Correcting quote to source'  User:Ddstretch has altered the spelling of the sourced spelling 'color' to 'colour'. Am I wrong in thinking using a quotation as written should take precedence over local article spelling? If so could I be pointed to the guidance?SovalValtos (talk) 04:06, 29 January 2018 (UTC)


 * It appears that you are quoting from a film and not a written source. That was why I adjusted the spelling - it is a British town, and the SAS are a British organisation, so British spelling seemed the most appropriate. It had been "colour" for a while before the latest bout of editing. If I'm wrong, please give the written source so we can check.  DDStretch    (talk)  04:23, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Its been "colour" since 23 June 2017: here, and has gone by unchanged until just now. I checked on the IMDB site and read the Plot Summary and other text on that site. Nowhere is the quote even given! So, now that the quote appears to be unsourced, there's an argument for removing it entirely.  DDStretch    (talk)  04:51, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think the point of my question is being missed. It was about the principle of the precedence of rules about quoting verbatim v "correcting" quote content which apparently has the wrong local spelling for an article. It is easy to understand the argument given that British spelling should be used in this article. I do not think an argument that it should be retained as it has stood for months would be a good one. Unlike User:Ddstretch the cited source link to IMDb gave me a page with the quote. IMDb looks to be user generated so probably not a good source. A web search came up with this page [ http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/r/ronin-script-transcript-david-mamet.html ] which gives the spelling 'colour' but as it looks to be self-published perhaps further searching is needed for an original script transcript or other source.SovalValtos (talk) 08:48, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * IMDB is not regarded as a reliable source, but the point User:SovalValtos makes is correct I think. I quite often have to revert "corrections" of archaic spelling in quotes taken from old text.Charles (talk) 09:30, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

Of course, I accept the point made, too. But, as I said, in this instance, it didn't seem to apply, and it still didn't after I went to re-check IMDB. So, what do we do about this quote now? It either doesn't appear in IMDB (for me it doesn't), and, even if it did, IMDB is not a reliable source. DDStretch   (talk)  12:12, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am mystified that User:Ddstretch does not see the quote in the cited page . I see it each time I look. Can anyone else see it? My feeling is that the quote can be removed entirely. The article is on Hereford not the Special Air Service. It might possibly find a place in a media section in the SAS article but hard to justify here. There is a second mention of the Ronin film in this article's Media section which could be removed as could the Rainbow Six Vegas and Peep Show mentions.SovalValtos (talk) 19:46, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Changing to a different platform and browser, I can now see the quotes, but on the machine I was using, it simply didn't appear. My apologies. I still think it should be removed, as you suggest. But once again, my apologies for not being more extensive in trying to view the imdb site.  DDStretch    (talk)  19:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

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"An early town charter from 1189 granted by Richard I of England describes it as "Hereford in Wales""
- This sounds like some snide attempt at trying to claim Hereford is Welsh, or that Wales has a "claim" on Hereford, which they do not. This sounds like an attempt at trying to push a fringe theory.--2A00:23C4:3E07:D900:2DE2:ED0B:C489:42FD (talk) 20:27, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No. It is just a fact. Wales and the marches were ruled by the Council of Wales and the Marches based at Ludlow castle, just up the road from Hereford.Charles (talk) 20:37, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hereford was regarded as part of 'the Marches' not of Wales itself in that context.Cloptonson (talk) 10:39, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The term wasn't use at the time of the town charter so I really don't think Herefordshire being "part of 'the Marches" has any bearing on this. Also, as per the Welsh Marches page, the Marches comprise counties in both England and Wales and were administered as a single area (Council of Wales and the Marches). Cymrogogoch (talk) 08:53, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:14, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
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English Civil War and Hereford (under History)
In December [1642] they withdrew to Gloucester because of the presence in the area of a Royalist army under Lord Herbert.

Lord Herbert is wikilinked to the 1st Lord Herbert of Cherbury. This is incorrect; Lord Herbert of Cherbury never served in the war, attempted neutrality and declined to rally to the Royalists at Shrewsbury on excuse of ill health (he was in his early 60s and half-blind). His son (who succeeded in 1648 as 2nd Lord H of C) was an active commander but would not have been courtesy titled, his father only being a Baron. I have removed the erroneous link.Cloptonson (talk) 10:36, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

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Notable residents
Needs to be a notable residents section 2A00:23C7:61D2:5701:A197:F17:4015:7B44 (talk) 08:38, 19 September 2023 (UTC)