Talk:Herman George Scheffauer

Procureur2014 (talk) 12:07, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

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I have just copied and pasted this from my own talk page, which should have been posted here, apologies! I'm just editing the article again, attending to the 7 or 8 "Citation needed" additions. I must express astonishment that somebody has written alongside my original entry Anthony Vidler the exclamation "(who?)". I have provided a link to this Harvard professor of architectural history, as I had already provided a link to Vidler's book in the following sentence. But what sort of Wikipedia reader (or editor) is incapable of a simple google search and needs to make an entry of "Who?" alongside a name, and is also incapable of seeing that I have also cited from Vidler's work? I have now added the explanatory title to his name, although not mentioning the American university:

The Professor of Architectural History, Anthony Vidler has written: "Scheffauer anticipates all the later commonplaces of expressionistic criticism from Siegfried Kracauer to Rudolf Kurtz." Anthony Vidler, Warped Space: Art, Architecture and Anxiety in Modern Culture (MIT Press, 2002), p. 104.

Ok, so I have done some research and discovered now that it was a "bot": "This user account is a bot operated by Anomie (talk). It is a legitimate alternative account, used to make repetitive automated or semi-automated edits that would be extremely tedious to do manually. The bot is approved and currently active – the relevant request for approval can be seen here." I'm speechless.

I'm really not sure who has raised the question of NPOV and insisted on "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject. It may require cleanup to comply with Wikipedia's content policies, particularly neutral point of view. Please discuss further on the talk page. (August 2017)

Is it possible that this is also from a Bot? I consider that I have used high quality independent sources in the article. I'm unaware of any POV forks, etc. Can a historian have a "close connection" to a subject that died in 1927? I doubt it, for a living subject or somebody who has recently died without question (eg. the work on Sir Isaiah Berlin: A Life by Michael Ignatieff). I probably have an even closer connection to a subject that died in 1803 and one who died in 1776 (actually being a paid-up member of a historical society that celebrates that same person!) What does a "neutral point of view" mean here? Perhaps I should state in Talk that I am not American, and therefore writing about an American poet, I do consider myself to have a neutral point of view about him and California. I can well imagine that an American literary historian might write differently? The only two other biographies I have written for Wilkipedia, are one for John James Tayler and the other one for Anthony Aufrere- both are English. I would ask a "neutral observer" to read or consult both these Wiki entries and ask the same question if I have a "close connection" with these subjects? Probably much closer than this one as I have at least published a biographical entry on one of them. The fact that I am English myself, might suggest that my historical neutrality is indeed compromised, but not in the same way as writing an entry about an American poet. Perhaps I should consider the vexed criticism of having a too "close connection" with this American poet as a compliment of sorts? Perhaps whoever decided to add this on Wiki might care to explain what is implied? Can a Bot do that? There was one reader Edward321 who got upset about my description of Scheffauer's suicide (that it was too sympathetic? see Talk above), is it possible that the same person has come back and added another bit of so called Wiki "graffiti"?

It would be a nice gesture after suggesting this be taken up on the Talk page, that the person/bot who instigated the NPOV announce here what the specific problem is?

Why can't these same people add historical "facts" or meaningful additions to biographical entries? Why do they always gripe and never explain what their point is? Why don't they explain how they could improve on it? Give examples. Are they really editors, an editor provides a correction or evidence of something untoward usually consulting the writer first asking for permission to do so? The fact of the matter is is that they don't or simply can't. A NPOV category is launched.

I've just noticed that somebody? has changed the introduction and described Scheffauer as "a United States-born German poet, architect, writer, dramatist, journalist, and translator."

This is totally false he was never a "German poet" I am unaware of any poetry whatsoever he wrote in German. He translated Goethe and Heine into English (see fuller list under "Translations"), but wrote German poetry? I'm sorry I can't think of anything, please consult all his books on poetry (Of Both Worlds: Poems.San Francisco 1903; Looms of Life: Poems. New York 1908; and Drake in California: Ballads and Poems.London 1912) and then think about what has been written. Whoever wrote this is mistaken. Even the UC Berkeley: Bancroft Library biographical note (which I might add was changed in line with the better facts in the Wiki article!) states that he is a poet of "LOCAL IMPORTANCE". All of the major works in German (about American literature) were all translated from English into German by translators(including his trilogy!). He was an American poet, he was always apologetic about his German when he wrote letters in German- he often made grammatical errors. He would never have presumed to write poetry in German or Italian (he actually translated a poem from Italian into English!). He was a protegé of Ambrose Bierce, George Sterling called him his "brother in song", his style reminded Bierce of E. A. Poe, he loved Walt Whitman, etc., as a 17 year old his poetry was compared to William Cullen Bryant! I don't understand how anybody could interfere with Wikipedia and institute such a fake category change? Unless it was a bot?

HGS later lived in London and married an English poet, and after setting up a home in London he said often that England was his spiritual home as early as 1914. Following the outbreak of WW1 he hated the English and like many other "German-Americans" was convinced of England's guilt. He was later convinced that it was English influence (especially the role of the press) that resulted in America entering the war and giving up its neutrality. Benjamin Franklin disliked the so called "hyphenated Americans" but you could say he was German-American or an American-German poet who only wrote poetry in English but "US Born German poet" is false. I notice that the German Wiki entry for Henry James also goes down the hyphenated route and has "American-British" writer, as far as I'm aware Scheffauer unlike James(who of course he knew in London), never applied for German citizenship. Is T.S. Eliot called a "a United States-born British poet"?

September 2017 Procureur2014 (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2017 (UTC) I noticed that his name has been removed from all of the categories of American poets, American writers, American short story writers, writers from San Fransisco, etc. I just looked at my original page from Revision as of 19:53, 28 February 2016 and today. Again I have no idea if a "bot" was responsible, but it is quite astonishing that the Wiki entry is being "dismantled" by some.

Procureur2014 (talk) 10:18, 3 September 2017 (UTC) There has still been no response to the NPOV claim, although it clearly directs the editors to the talk page? Coincidentally, I watched the film Zero Dark Thirty last night and immediately think on the female character using a red pen on a glass window and reminding her boss of how many days of waiting it has been?

Procureur2014 (talk) 12:28, 3 September 2017 (UTC) I'm curious but it does appear to me that what has taken place here again is described as "drive-by" tagging. Something that WP tries to avoid. Tags are always supposed to be accompanied by a comment on the article's talk page (which here is clearly not the case!) that explains the problem and begins a discussion on how to fix it! Tagging editors are supposed to "follow-through with substantive discussion" Civility and using the Talk pages effectively is a goal of WP. I do have a day job and only at the weekends do I find the time to look at the 3 biographical articles I have written for WP.

Procureur2014 (talk) 12:54, 3 September 2017 (UTC) I have just read other sites and see that I am expecting a conversation and follow-through with an automated bot. Clearly, this will not happen. I will remove the NPOV tag and if something happens again in the future I will address the problem once again on this talk page.

Procureur2014 (talk) 10:49, 5 September 2017 (UTC) Still no conversation or follow-through from detractor?

Procureur2014 (talk) 17:57, 6 September 2017 (UTC) re footnote 72 The birth of his daughter Fiona Fransica is mentioned in his Ode in the context of his indictment, See: The Infant in the News=sheet : An Ode Against the Age (1921), "In her birth came to me a second birth/ And in my days of loss a glorious dower./ O exile’s daughter/ That saw the dark at New Year in Berlin/ The child of one they charged with treason rank/ And sought to blacken with the spoor of sin/ Whose guilt was write in water/ By courts that in their corruption stank/…..”(pp.16/17) I was requested to provide a citation here. I would like to draw attention to the current UC Berkeley and Bancroft Library online entry, which states: "He married the English poet Ethel Talbot, with whom he had a daughter, Fiona. In 1910, Scheffauer moved to Germany to become a translator and journalist" They are five years out. Also that after a visit of H. L. Mencken’s to the Scheffauer's in Berlin probably in September 1922, Fiona is spoken of as a two and half year old daughter. Mencken wrote to Sterling that he was visiting Europe and planned to visit Scheffauer in June 1922 (HLM to GS June 12th [1922], p.164). George Sterling had written to him shortly before he left for Berlin “Remember me to Wilhelm and Scheff”( GS to HLM July 7th, 1922, p.166) etc. The date of her birth as New Year 1919/20 is only an estimation but as accurate as can be. Perhaps another Wiki editor with access to birth certificate sites (online ancestry sites etc. ) could provide some better info here, when she was born?

Procureur2014 (talk) 18:27, 8 September 2017 (UTC) I removed a passage on Scheffauer and his interest in Richard Wagner at San Francisco, his reaction to Parsifal etc., thought it was unnecessary "padding".

Procureur2014 (talk) 09:22, 16 September 2017 (UTC) With reference above to the removal of "German-American poet" by an editor (or bot?) and the substitution instead of United States-born German poet. I think we should adopt an OED style approach, reflecting on the current usage of the time as well as current. I would refer to Schrader's Handbook for German Americans (1916) or a piece, written by the poet Viereck, which appeared in The Sun (May 14 1910) and which described him as a "German-American poet". I quote: "The nine German-American poets, including myself, were James Oppenheim, Reginald Wright Kauffman, B. Russell Herts, Louis Untermeyer, Leonard Van Noppen, Edwin Davies Schoonmaker, Ludwig Lewisohn, Muriel Rice and Herman Scheffauer."

I personally think that describing him as a German-American poet is a valid description, although I have left it now as simply an American poet perhaps somebody might like to discuss this point further? There should also be some consideration of the academic journal: Americana Germanica and organisations such as the German American Historical Society or the National German-American Alliance. In fact in the last 40 years we also witness the German-American Heritage Foundation of the USA® (GAHF) based in Washington, that even has The German-American Heritage Museum of the USA. In fact, I think there are very good grounds for describing him as a German-American poet, just why it was changed, I'm not sure, but write this on Talk to address this matter and the status quo ante.

Procureur2014 (talk) 10:19, 5 October 2017 (UTC) I notice that the following Irish newspaper the "Larne Times"(County Antrim, Northern Ireland) refers to him as "the noted German-American novelist and publicist" (Saturday 15 October 1927, p.8) The "Birmingham Daily Gazette" (West Midlands, England) describes him as "a German-American journalist and author"(Saturday 08 October 1927, p.1); whereas, the Pall Mall Gazette(London, England )refers to him as the "well-known American poet" (Friday 05 January 1912,p.5)