Talk:Herzliya

Herzliya
The title should be changed to 'Herzliya' with 1 'Y'. I don't know how to do that...      Why? Road-signs in Israel read 'Herzliyya'. I know it looks funny, but still...
 * the correct transliteration of the hebrew הרצליה is 'Herzliyyāh' or 'Hertsliyyāh' (altho the latter isnt used, given the fact that 'Herzl' was a european spelling converted into hebrew). there are two 'Y's because the hebrew letter 'Yud' contains a dagesh -- in other words, it's doubled. hebrew pronunciation reflects this. the macron over the 'A' reflects a qamats (vowel indicator) and the final 'Heh', together representing a long vowel. this system of transliteration (with slight modifications made for simplicity) is commonly accepted amongst Semitic linguists and academics with respect to Hebrew, and resembles the one used to transliterate Arabic.
 * regarding street signs: israel is notorious for lack of consistency. i have seen signs that read 'herzlia', 'hertzliya', 'herzliya', 'herzliyya', and 'herzliyyah'. it's commonly been advocated that israeli civil servants agree upon a single transliteration system, but so far it's pretty much been up to each individual's discretion.

Sister City
I think Herzliyya has some sister cities, is anybody know which? and maybe can add to the article.--84.228.247.20 13:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Factual errors
The following: / During the 1970s a large marina was built in Herzliya, as well as a small airport (code: HRZ), an old shopping district in Sokolov street (now in renovation – aka "The New Center of Herzliya"), two malls (Arena Mall and Shiv'at HaKokhavim Mall), movie theaters, museums, cultural centers, and an olympic stadium and target range. Herzliya also has professional basketball and soccer teams and is home to Israel's largest film studios, Ulpanei Herzliya (Herzliya's Studios) which are the studios of Reshet and the Children's Channel (the most popular channel for kids in Israel). /  Is incorrect. The marina was built in the 90s. Herzliya airport was built, as an airstrip, around the war of independence (1948) and actually was the base of the first Israeli fighter squadron (a mixture of the Czech version of the Bf109, and a few spitfires). The two malls were also built in the 90s (Arena, perhaps around 2000). I don't think the soccer field qualifies as an olympic athletic stadium -- though I may be wrong. I corrected some of this, but someone decided to undo the changes -- I'm posting here to avoid a needless version war.

The previous mayor of Herzliya was Eli Landau, not one "Yitzhak Avraham Landau". "Eli" might be short for "Eliyahu", and his second name might be Avraham, but whatever his full name is, this person is commonly known as "Eli Landau" and therefore this information is either incomplete and misleading or incorrect (see also: Eli Landau in Hebrew Wikipedia). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.79.116 (talk) 01:50, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

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External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://fr.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1226404784990&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
 * Added tag to http://www.brishonim.org.il/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090123234549/http://herzliyaconference.org/Eng/_Articles/Article.asp?CategoryID=86&ArticleID=18 to http://www.herzliyaconference.org/Eng/_Articles/Article.asp?CategoryID=86&ArticleID=18
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110612040833/http://info.jpost.com/C002/Supplements/CasualtiesOfWar/2002_06_11.html to http://info.jpost.com/C002/Supplements/CasualtiesOfWar/2002_06_11.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121015022710/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Memorial/2002/1/Hadar%20Hershkowitz to http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Memorial/2002/1/Hadar%20Hershkowitz
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111128031233/http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Memorial/2006/Victims/Reut%20Feldman.htm to http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-%20Obstacle%20to%20Peace/Memorial/2006/Victims/Reut%20Feldman.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090302174200/http://eng.banskabystrica.sk/main.php?id_kat_for_menu=2367&firmy_slovenska_flag=0 to http://eng.banskabystrica.sk/main.php?id_kat_for_menu=2367&firmy_slovenska_flag=0

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Images
An editor just deleted all images from the notable residents section. With reference to the image gallery rules. This is not an image gallery.

He also said as a rationale that this is a town, so it does not "need" images. First, there is no difference in rules of notable residents sections in cities, towns, boroughs, countries, etc.

Second, the question is not whether there is a "need." There is no "need" for any article. Even an article on the town. That is not reason to delete the article. The question is whether it is appropriate. It is. We have likely thousands of lists of notable persons and notable person sections in cities, towns, boroughs, countries, schools, etc that have photos. Photos add to the article. Taking the view that they should not have photos is a non-consensus view that would be a major change, and would have to be taken up with the community.

And for images, the rule is "Images are typically interspersed individually throughout an article near the relevant text." See Manual of Style/Images. It is totally normal. See, for example, List of people from Los Angeles. Deleting all the images from all those lists would be a major change, and needs consensus. And deleting all images (or all people, similarly, since it is the same logic) because you are not sure who is more notable would also not be a consensus edit. So I restored the images. Please do not again delete the images -- which are quite normal in lists of notable persons and in such embedded lists -- without consensus (and a valid rationale).

If need be, lets discuss with input from the MOS images editors. 2604:2000:E016:A700:4484:D7B0:8756:2C26 (talk) 18:57, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Most town articles do not have pictures of notable people from that town. These pictures are not really relevant to the town article. In any event if we were to have pictures it would most definitely not include Siebner (a barely notable athlete, appeared in one olympics in a relay team), whom you have been inserting in other articles as well, but rather focus on the most notable of the notable in the list with pictures and there are a number of athletes and non athletes who are much more notable than Siebner. I will note you added Siebner to the Kfar Saba article, and then created an image gallery containing her and Herzog in Herzliya. In both cases there are much more notable listed notable people to place before her (most of the other listed people with pictures).Icewhiz (talk) 19:05, 11 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Ice -- first of all, I don't think we have any substantive issues here or elsewhere, so I don't understand why you would would want to complicate matters with me on a non-substantive issue which could end up taking up both our time which could be better spent on meaningful issues. That seems counter-productive and like shooting ourselves in the foot. Second, the test is never, ever "most x article have or do not have." The rule is "There is no deadline." See There is no deadline. If the images are appropriate, which they are, and used to better thousands of other similar geographical and school article lists and list sections, which they are, then it is irrelevant that they are not yet on any number of such lists. Third, your statement that "these are not really relevant to the town article" is a statement that is as wrong here as it is for all the city, town, etc. and university, school, etc. articles that have parallel sections. We have thousands of them. Fourth, Olympians aren't just maybe notable. Olympians who have appeared in one Olympics are automatically notable. That is significant. Fifth, I never created an image gallery. I find them less attractive -- which is probably why other editors typically don't use them for such sections, but instead add the image to the right of the section, where there is typically white space. Sixty, if you think there are more notable people ... and editors will differ on this (you clearly don't have the same respect for Olympians that the Project by consensus does) .. then add other notables who you find notable. And focus on ones that by their accomplishment are -- by WP standards -- automatically notable, I would suggest. Again, if you want to distract both of us from doing good on serious substance by having us waste hours over something like this, we can do that, but it is self-defeating and I suggest you think about that first. 2604:2000:E016:A700:4484:D7B0:8756:2C26 (talk) 19:20, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I actually perused various town articles before making this statement - e.g. Tel Aviv, List of people from New York City, List of people from Huntsville, Alabama. I don't think the picture add here - this is about the town, not about the people. I have not said olympians are not notable (they are per WP's guidelines) - just the Siebner just barely makes the grade (appearing in one relay team that did not achieve much). In contrast there are other olympians from Herzliya - e.g. Ágnes Keleti or Alice Schlesinger who've had a much more significant impact who are much more notable. Not to mention that there are non-athletes as well who are more notable. In any objective standard - Siebner would be amongst the last in a ranked list of the notable people currently listed for Herzliya. Her picture should not be up there - in the time being, pending input from other editors regarding this gallery (and no - this is not interspaced images - but rather images that in some screen widths go down into the refs) - I am removing Siebner and placing a more notable individual instead - to reflect proper balance here.Icewhiz (talk) 19:33, 11 July 2017 (UTC)


 * A) There are many counter-examples. Many, many list of people with images. How many examples do you want? List of Jewish American businesspeople, List of Puerto Ricans, List of people from Phoenix, List of people from Madison, Wisconsin, List of Duke University people .. and countless other both stand-alone and embedded lists. B) To better understand as well why your argument that there are lists that don't have images is not relevant on wikipedia, see the logic discussed at WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST. C) The article is about a town, but has a section/list about notable residents of that town. The images are to augment that section of the article. This is how images work. Just as the section is relevant (we don't delete the section, saying the resident are not important -- "this is just about the town" .. the images are relevant. For all the reasons discussed at MOS:IMAGES.  D) For you to say that an individual that is automatically notable by their accomplishments -- by wp standards -- "barely makes the grade" shows that your view of notability is at odds with that of Wikipedia consensus. Most notable persons (athlete or non-athlete) are not automatically notable by their accomplishment. Only a discrete minority. This is one such person. In the top tier, in that she has automatic notability. Also, we should consider per our MOS the quality of the various available images. E) The term gallery has a special meaning and special rules for wp images; this is not a gallery. F) As I said before, I think you are making a mistake if you want to turn me - an editor with whom you appear to have no substantive differences -- into one with whom you fight, as you appear to be fighting already with may editors on your talk page about substantive differences. I don't see your logic. I suggest you reconsider, and think about what is important. Your time and my time can be better spent improving articles in ways in which we agree. This conflict seems one that those who disagree with you on substantive issues will enjoy you persisting in, so it does not seem the most prudent course. 2604:2000:E016:A700:4484:D7B0:8756:2C26 (talk) 20:00, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * You are welcome to elicit more input from other editors. What made me jump here is the insertion of Siebner into multiple articles, and particularly her image. While she does meet notability guidelines, due to appearing in a single olympics on a relay team (having failed to individually qualify, and the relay team qualifying itself due to a last minute tecnicality that bumped Belarus out, Siebner being selected by the Israeli comittee as the 4th, last, member on the team just two weeks before the olympics, and the relay team itself finishing last in the event. But yes, she does still meet the current Olympian criteria), there are more notable olympians, basketball players, and non-athletes on the Herzilya list. Many of which meet an automatic notability criteria (though I would disagree this confers extra weight than GNG, in this case this arguement is moot as most of the people on the list meet an automatic criteria).Icewhiz (talk) 20:15, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Some things to consider. First, as images are understood to augment text in these cases (and keep in mind, for example, a high school kid looking at an article of a school or town and seeing not just the notable persons section of the article, but images of them, augmenting their understanding/experience), you might consider adding images to other such sections of towns/cities in which you have interest. Curiously, you will find that there are one or two major Israeli cities that do not even have such sections or stand-alone articles, let alone images. Second, when adding images, as you point out the level of notability (as best we can determine it -- the newspaper poll from a few years ago is one thing we can point to that is more objective than perhaps our own sentiments) of the person is a major consideration. But it is not the only one. The quality of the image, for example, is another consideration. Also, it may be of note that a person is alive and still adding to their notability (this swimmer won another medal just today at the Maccabiah, for example), whereas with some this is no longer the case. I believe it is also best to have a mix - not just athletes, or just servants of the state, or just rabbis, etc. As far as athletes are concerned, Brody may be even more notable than others on the list; certainly, by measurement I believe of the newspaper poll. In any event, there is more than one factor to consider, and while some are objective, others are less so. Finally, what is key I would suggest is to take a stab at focusing on being collaborative. Making that a personal goal. If an editor is editing the same article you are editing, and also trying to improve it, ally with them in trying to find common ground to improve it. Rather than trying to being heavy handed, and bully them, especially when they may have something to offer that you have not considered, or may be familiar with wp policies that you have not considered. It is totally counter-productive to turn your potential collaborative ally, trying to also improve the same article, into an annoyed editor who will engage you in endless discussion over issues that are of third-tier importance to you. Rather than ally with them to improve the substance of articles. If you follow that path, you will distract from our common goal -- improving the articles that we are interested in. And where's the sense in that? 2604:2000:E016:A700:4484:D7B0:8756:2C26 (talk) 20:59, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Siebner is, to my understanding, essentially retired from full time swimming, and works at a desk job (plus some modeling). The Maccabiah is not a particularly competitve venue (yes, every so often we do have a Mark Spitz caliber show up... But it is really a small pool seeing there are but 15m Jews or thereabouts). While the Maccabiah is important, but I do not think contestents in the current event should eclipse more notable list members in town articles. I agree on balance, mix, and image quality. Constructively if you think a better lineup could be shown here, suggest it.Icewhiz (talk) 21:19, 11 July 2017 (UTC)
 * a) True she works a desk job and models, in addition to competing in swimming. It's not abnormal, for Israeli Olympic level athletes in sports where one does not make money competing, to work outside of the sport. In fact, it is the age-old approach of Olympians for decades. b) Essentially retired? What do you base that on? Her best times are all in 2016. She won eight gold medals at last year's national championships. She's just the opposite -- in her prime. c) Your argument sneering at the Maccabiah -- let's understand something. The Maccabiah "pool" includes both all 8 million Israelis plus all non-Israeli Jews (another 8 million). That's a much larger pool (or, the same size given gender) than most of the other people on the list are notable for ... politicians and military men on it for example come only from the all-Israeli pool. And pleeeeze don't argue that being the #1 Israeli in something should not count, because Israel is small .. which would of course lead to stripping Israelis of all sorts of notability ... which is where your argument logically leads. (Apply it to Israeli prime ministers, and sports national record holders and Olympians, and Jerusalem Prize winners ... terrible and flawed). I will give thought if I have time to a better mix (and I do believe her pic was better quality than most, and she is still gaining notability for continued accomplishments even with her medal today, and it is important to have such athletes in the mix as we have a notion that certain people are not athletic). But most important to me are the concepts underlying your deletions. I hope we are getting to a closer understanding. --2604:2000:E016:A700:4484:D7B0:8756:2C26 (talk) 23:30, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Swimmers
Is the phrase "enormous success" in "Bnei Herzelia {should that be Herzliya?} swimmers have had enormous success" encyclopedic? Mcljlm (talk) 16:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)