Talk:Hexagram/Archive 1

Note

 * I moved the above WP:OR from the article to talk. Please provide refs (see WP:RS, WP:V), copyedit and then add to the article. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 22:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved
I moved the majority of the content unrelated to Star of David to this article. I think it belongs here better, since in many cases there is no proven relation to the SoD. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Star of David/Hexagram
Regarding Jcwaldensian's attempted interpretive edits: His passage is missquoted, and the actual hebrew states "So shall ye take up Siccuth your king and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves." 1 2 Not "But ye have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chiun your images, the star of your god, which ye made to yourselves". Star is descriptive of Chiun here and not the subject. This is also discussed in Christian resources ("..and the star or representative of their god Chiun." and 3 for example). And even the Masoretic connection he claimed (however farfetched) is not without fault when discussing the actual Hebrew words 3, which show a context of Babylonian idolatry. Stars themselves are used and discussed among other verses in the Tanakah in a positive light, as stars are seen as a symbol of the heavenly kingdom. "And God made the two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night; and the stars." "the LORD your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude." "I will ascend into heaven, above the stars of God will I exalt my throne, and I will sit upon the mount of meeting, in the uttermost parts of the north". To assume any of the passages in the Tanakah refers specifically to a hexegram (star of david) is simply that, an assumption. --Marty Goldberg 19:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

The Stars of the I Ching
The texts of the I Ching refer to its own hexagrams as stars, and when the structure of its hexagrams is studied they to are formed from trigrams or triangles of Heaven and Earth, or fire and water. It may be easily dismissed that there is a link between the Jewish and Chinese Hexagram, until the mathematical make-up of both are looked at, and undone. The Chinese Hexagram, in the structure of its line makes a cubic hexagon, and the formation a star with six points is therefore a logical step of joining-up the hexagons points inside, or by extending its lines outside. The other link between the Jewish and Chinese Hexagram lies in the mathematical proportion of the rectangle contained within the hexagon = 1.73, as the simple multiplication of integers when they are placed into triangles produce 8 possible combinations, that then go on to make the values of 64 stars. The values of the 64 stars/hexagrams/seals produce the same rectangle referred to as 'The Measure of the Fish' by Archimedes, which is central to the dimensions of the temple or house. The way that you draw a hexagram either as a Chinese or Jewish one is therefore immaterial, as infact the Jewish form contains the Chinese one, and the Chinese the Jewish one - each containing the 6 and 7 steps of creation or change, and the 40 days and 40 nights (40 light and 40 dark values). Karen Solvig 17:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The maths of the Hexagram, or the 64 binary cubes are all formed through the placement in a correct order of the triangles of Heaven and Earth. Karen Solivig was quoting from 'The Sum of Things' by Paul Martyn-Smith, Morrigan Books. Paul Martyn-Smith gives the placement of Heaven and Earth into the Two Rivers Maps of I Ching, to reveal the workings of time in its small and great cycles of Precession. The values of time are therefore cubic binaries that fit the values of natural integers from 1 to 10, and the relationship between odd and even numbers then progress as multiples x 6, and then x 7s. To give a simple example of the triangles that fit together in the Ho Tu or Yellow River Map, in the North the values are Heaven 1 and Earth 6, so 1+2+3 = 6, and 6+12+18 = 36. As Heaven has all unbroken lines and Earth has all broken lines, in their possible combinations this produces a total of 8 binary triangles or Trigrams, each with its own value. When the triangles are placed at right angles to each other they form a square 8 x 8 that contains 64 cubes. It is these value that combine to form the Lo Shu or Magic Square of Saturn/Time. In these workings there 3 levels of the 360 day-year (the base of both time and direction), the 365 day-year, and the 384 day-lunar year (13 lunar months = 29.538461 days) that gives an exact count of time (64 cubes have 384 sides or values). The link between them all is contained in the amount of hours, as 360 days = 8640 or 2160 x 4 hours, 2160 is also the amount of years in an Aeons or a 12th division of Precession. These maths are a geometric progression from the values of 1 and 2, as each value transforms through 72 to produce an extra 73rd part - 8640/72 = 120 hours = 365 days, and so on throughout all the levels small and great, in both time and space. The reference to time/space appears in the Standard Model in G2 root and E8 (see - A Garrett Lisi. 'An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything'), but this model is based only on the lines of the cubic hexagon, whereas the I Ching also includes the values of faces of the cubic hexagon to manufacture a binary code. This means that the Standard Model might only give 2/3 of the working's as appears in the 12 lines Yin or female aspect of the I Ching's binary code, and so the 6 lines of male or Yang part (The Creative) is as yet not included in the Model.

Barbara G. Walker wrote on her book The I Ching of the Goddess (Harper & Row, San Francisco 1986 p. 16}

The word hexagram does not really mean an arrangement of parallel horizontal lines {as in the I Ching}. It means a geometric figure composed of two interlocking triangles: the same figure now generally accepted as a symbol of Judaism and even erroneously called the Star of David, or sometimes Solomon's Seal…

Peter Myers on his webpage says that

Barbara Walker goes on to portray the hexagram of the I Ching as representing the two interlocking triangles: the lower (male) triangle considered as 3 unbroken lines, the upper triangle as 3 lines each broken by the lower triangle.

This is a most important insight that unifies the main meanings of the hexagram and opens new fields for future research. See: http://star-of-david.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html#1948586747125007168 Zeevveez 11:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
We need to stay on our toes here, a certain person has been vandalizing this page today with anti-Semitic content. Thanks for refreshing the Usage by Christians paragraph, saved me the trouble of hunting down the history.TurtleofXanth 03:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Dodge Brothers
"Dodge Brothers emblem ca. 1938 inadvertently depicting the Star of David."

What the heck does this caption mean? Is it the Star of David, or is it a hexagram? Why is the word "inadvertantly" used here? Is someone saying Dodge didn't mean to display this symbol? The word "inadvertantly" means "accidentally" or "by oversight". I'm going to attempt to remove that word from the caption, and if someone can show me why it needs to be back there, let's discuss it. It seems at best unnecessary and at worst POV. Applejuicefool 20:53, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Ottoman Hexagram
There is a rumor in kosovo about the origin of the hexagram on the mosque : this is because the architects of othoman empire were mostly of jewish origin. and they used to leave symbolic messages. James Michael DuPont (talk) 11:26, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Further explanation of why I removed the Goddess worship section
No part of this section should be readded in any form. Thus, every part of that addition by that anonymous editor was blatently wrong. In further discussion, he quoted Texe Marrs (a conspiracy theorist) and a facebook astrology page as additional sources (after the reliable sourcing guidelines were linked and summarized). That user does not care about reliable sourcing, only pushing a fantasy on the encyclopedia. Ian.thomson (talk) 22:43, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The concept of Goddess worship is a recent myth based on comparing archetypes across different mythologies.
 * Greek numerals and Hebrew numerals worked on the sum of the letters, not the order. 6 and 6 and 6 is 18 in those number systems, not 18.  Thus the charge that three sixes was used in the book of Revelation is patently false and totally ignorant of the culture the work came from.
 * 6 is more of a sacred number in Judaism or Islam than it is in Buddhism or Hinduism. The one entry for Hinduism is part of an obscure cosmological belief, not something mainstream like the five deities worshipped in the Smartist tradition, or the God and Goddess worshipped in the Shaktist tradition, or the 10 avatars of Vishnu.
 * The Beast and the Whore of Babylon were distinct figures in Revelation, and it was the Beast who was worshipped.
 * The number of the Beast is also the number of a man, which most scholars who bother to look at the historical context at all have concluded was a coded reference to Nero (as most scholars accept that Babylon is supposed to be a coded reference to Rome).
 * Ishtar worship had died out by the time Revelation was written, displaced and absorbed by the worship of the goddess Atargatis (as evidenced by De Dea Syria).
 * Ishtar was represented by an eight pointed star, not a six pointed star.
 * The German Hexe (a conjugation of Hexen) and the Greek Hexa are not related.

Christian usage reference note
Link used as referennce shows some pictures of Armenian origins.This link is some internt site promoting conspiracy theories ( Unexplianed Things out There) aliens etc. Not a reliable source for encyclopedic usageBialosz (talk) 13:11, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Masons
Given that we have no actual images of the First Jewish Temple, and given that Masonry doesn't actually go back to 900 BCE, this section needs to be edited, and for more neutrality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.201.20.139 (talk) 18:20, 15 December 2015 (UTC)