Talk:Hezbollah

Left-wing
I get why different Arab socialist parties and alike (Nasserist, Ba'athist, Gaddafist ect.) are called left-wing but Hezbollah? Braganza (talk) 19:05, 30 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Braganza (talk) 22:14, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Although Hezbollah's core ideology is Shia Islamism, it is typically positioned on the political spectrum as left-leaning due to its incorporation of leftist leanings to maintain support from left wing Shi'ite supporters from various groups such as the Lebanese Communist Party and the People's Movement of Lebanon. I have added a source which supports this to the article . Another source argues that the organization's political structure is leftist: "It starts with the political structure and the country’s declared purpose. In both structures, there is a supreme leader or secretary-general, followed by a guardian council or a politburo, followed by a central committee or expediency council and the members of the party. Each has its own colors, but the construction of the blocs is similar. And this goes to serve the objectives of the belief or theology. It is state over individual. It is the same structure as the Muslim Brotherhood has opted for. When it comes to the economy, free enterprise is replaced by a state-run economy. And so, by all accounts, Hezbollah is a left-wing political formation." Skitash (talk) 23:09, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Nowhere in those sources does it say that is left wing in its core, only that it adopts some left wing view points. A political structure isn't what makes a party leftist or not. It is socially conservative, nationalist and theocratic. You could add that it holds left wing believes on economics. Jaxthesubhuman (talk) 06:38, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Isn't left-wing politics in the Arab world associated with (some) secularism?
 * There are other arab socialist parties which don't have a position at all because they don't really fit the western left-wing criteria (ALF, PLO, PLF, Syrian Ba'ath in Lebanon, Iraqi Ba'ath in Yemen, NVP, NDA, Sawab, Arab Ba'ath Progressive Party, Iraqi Ba'ath Party in Jordan, LPNM, NUPO).
 * Khomeinism has some left-leaning ideas (state controlled economy or anti-imperialism) but this doesn't make them left-wing either and the first two sources you have given are quite week: the first one states that only the milieu is left-wing but not the party leadership and the second one has a quite critical section on her wikipedia article (Judith Butler). Only the last one is imo really reliable but i don't think its accepted by the mainstream. Braganza (talk) 06:40, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The academic sources cited previously in the page do not claim that Hezbollah is a left-wing group.


 * From the book "Hezbollahland: Mapping Dahiya and Lebanon's Shia Community" (pg. 33) authored by Hanin Ghaddar
 * year: 2023
 * Publisher: Rowman & Littlefield


 * From the book "Jews and Leftist Politics: Judaism, Israel, Antisemitism, and Gender" (pg. 135, 136) edited by Jack Jacobs
 * Year: 2017
 * Publisher: Cambridge University Press
 * These academic sources are arguing against the claim that Hezbollah is a "left-wing" group.
 * As for the opinion piece in Arab News which was cited by the user "Skitash", thats not an academic book. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 15:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As for the opinion piece in Arab News which was cited by the user "Skitash", thats not an academic book. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 15:51, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

It is difficult for the uninitiated to interpret what this group is from the article. It’s apparently a political party, but not really, or a militia, but not technically, etc. What are the demographics of this group? Is it like a political party as in the US, where most are not active or something else. It may be possible this is in the article, but it is not easy to glean anything without getting lost in the weeds. Given many people will be reading it in the current situation, the article needs to be revised with some basic facts at the beginning, and leave a lot of the rest for later in the article. The situation on Hamas seems easier to understand. Again, just what IS it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:645:4300:EE90:F541:1AB1:F3EE:C13A (talk) 10:24, 4 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @2601:645:4300:EE90:F541:1AB1:F3EE:C13A
 * The problem is that there isn't a clear answer to that question, the subject matter itself is blurry. Hezbollah is simultaneously a political entity, a deep state, and a militia, among other things. It participates in Lebanese elections (so it has a political party like you're describing), but it's also much more than that.
 * It doesn't map onto American politics particularly well, but I'll try to give you an analogy anyway. Imagine if the Libertarians were more popular (lol), and also had an active, highly effective militia that frequently involved itself in conflicts nearby, and also had its own "meta-state" within the United States, where it provided government-like services for everyone who lives in Montana and Idaho. Now imagine that this Libertarian Militia was somehow more powerful than the US and Canadian governments.
 * This analogy is pretty terrible, and has lots of holes, but it really isn't analogous to anything in American politics, so anything is a stretch. DeVosMax [ contribs • talk • created media ] 10:31, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 November 2023
In the chapter "Designation as a terrorist organization or resistance movement", Switzerland is incorrectly named as a country which has designated Hezbollah a terrorist organisation. This is inaccurate and the reference gives talks about the Czech Republic.

The following report by the Swiss government (unfortunately only in French and German) shows that Switzerland does not designate Hezbollah a terrorist organisation: https://www.admin.ch/gov/fr/accueil/documentation/communiques.msg-id-91070.html

Please delete the reference to Switzerland.

Thank you! Vpasquier (talk) 09:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)


 * This ref, referring to that report, says "A ban on Hezbollah and its activities in Switzerland could impair missions within the framework of good offices and also Switzerland's humanitarian engagement. Likewise, such a ban could damage Switzerland's credibility as a neutral country, according to the government."
 * It seems from this that Switzerland has not designated H as terrorist, so I will remove it unless there is some objection. Selfstudier (talk) 13:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ by Selfstudier. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 03:33, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Removal of Japan
@Nableezy I saw the article, but can you provide the actual list? It seems a bit far fetched. In Japanese wiki the Japanese write their government considers it terrorists when I last saw. I'd imagine they would have removed Japan from their list if such a change was done. Can you present the Public Security list? Homerethegreat (talk) 08:54, 30 November 2023 (UTC)


 * You just presented one article from Yahoo. I think the actual Public Security list will make more sense or a few more sources. Thank you for the time. Homerethegreat (talk) 09:15, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I dont have the primary source no, and we rely on secondary sources. Wikipedia is also not a reliable source.  nableezy  - 15:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You showed only 1 source though... Japanese Wiki still has it. Can you double check? Homerethegreat (talk) 19:12, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Have you not tried searching for yourself? Do you have some reason to doubt the info?
 * How about this? Selfstudier (talk) 19:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the source! So basically it appears that the news piece Nableezy sent is not related to whether Japan considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization. Thank you for sending this and making it clear! Nableezy can you self rv?
 * "the reason for the major deletion was ``a change in the source of the information. '' Starting with the 2023 edition, the content is said to comply with the sanctions list based on UN Security Council Resolution 1267. Previously, we used reports from overseas think tanks as sources, but we received inquiries as to what the standards were, so we published the 2013 edition with the policy of making the standards clear and easy to understand. Updating the web version. I think this timing made it a hot topic," said the person in charge." - Machine translation
 * Basically, it seems that the 2013 directive is still in place and that there wasn't an actual change in policy. Homerethegreat (talk) 16:49, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * "Starting with the 2023 edition, the content is said to comply with the sanctions list based on UN Security Council Resolution 1267." is the current position. Selfstudier (talk) 16:52, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * No, because what that actually means is that Japan never actually considered Hezbollah to be a terrorist entity. It had simply listed organizations that think thanks said were terrorist entities. So no, definitely not restoring Japan here, they appear to have never belonged in the first place.  nableezy  - 16:57, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Just look at Japanese Wiki: イランとシリアの政治支援を受け、その軍事部門はアラブ・イスラム世界の大半で抵抗運動の組織と見なされている. 日本 、欧州連合、米国、オランダ   、バーレーン  、エジプト 、英国、豪州、カナダ、イスラエルは Homerethegreat (talk) 07:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Why? Btw, those refs are all dated. Selfstudier (talk) 09:54, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Right-wing
Books describing Hezbollah as right-wing: 1 and 2. Bakbik1234 (talk) 14:21, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Not done. Both are passing references, the first to some Hezbollah prisoners and the other to some Hezbollah woman. That does not mean that Hezbollah is right wing. Selfstudier (talk) 14:50, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Islamic fundamentalism
Sources describing Hezbollah as Islamic fundamentalist:         Bakbik1234 (talk) 01:25, 21 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Most of the source are from the 1990's to the 2000's. Librero2109 (talk) 15:54, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism vs Antisemitism
Hi there. It is now more accepted to use Antisemitism instead of the outdated 'Anti-semitism'. The latter was a term created as a pseudo-scientific explanation for the hatred of Jews, often associated with the Nazi ideology of racial classification (https://holocaustremembrance.com/resources/spelling-antisemitism / https://www.adl.org/spelling-antisemitism-vs-anti-semitism). Thanks 81.108.69.245 (talk) 01:11, 22 April 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah Is a terrorist organization and should be categorized as such
Per the United States government and the basic premis of their stated goals Hezbollah is and should be describes as a terrorist organization. According to the US government (citation below), "Hezbollah (“Party of God,” also spelled Hizballah) is an Iran-backed Lebanese Shia militia and U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO). Hezbollah is an Iranian partner force, helping Tehran project power across the region, train allied militias (reportedly including Hamas), and threaten U.S. interests and allies across the region." Also "According to the U.S. government, the External Security Organization (ESO, also known as the Islamic Jihad Organization), headed by Talal Hamiyah, is the arm of Hezbollah responsible for overseas terrorist attacks."

There is no excuse for Wikipedia to label Hezbollah as a "political party" when their stated goal of the destruction of the Jewish State. They are a terrorist group with roots in Islamic Jihad and should be labeled as such for the proper education of those researching.

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10703#:~:text=Hezbollah%20(“Party%20of%20God%2C,Foreign%20Terrorist%20Organization%20(FTO). 2601:58B:E80:7B20:1DB8:234:24E2:895A (talk) 03:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There are at least 3 things that you don't appear to have considered or don't care about
 * MOS:TERRORIST
 * To categorize in Wikipedia means to describe something using Wikipedia's unattributed editorial voice i.e. to state something as an objective fact, which would be inappropriate in this case. When there are a variety of labels depending on POV, a "proper education" requires attribution to the labelers.
 * Wikipedia is not part of the US government. See WP:NPOV. Sean.hoyland (talk) 04:33, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Clearly there is no consensus for the addition of this category. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:24, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think the above discussion from months ago is related to my recent edit. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is indeed not related to your recent edit, but related to the content of your recent edit, and that is the addition of a terrorism category. Please self-revert now that you are aware that there is more opposition than support to your edit. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:16, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * That someone opposes an edit I made is not enough of a reason to revert my edits. There's also someone who support it. Check oy the Terrorism in Lebanon article - there are whole paragraphs there about Hezbollah's activities. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 11:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Your edit was reverted because it is POV of certain nations. Now after you have been notified that there are three opposers, and that is enough of a reason to self-revert. Pinging and  who have commented on this bit. Makeandtoss (talk) 12:23, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think you are confusing labeling Hezbollah as a terrorist organization with categorizing this article as relevant to the category of terrorism in Lebanon, It is not the same thing. Is there a specific reason why you are only inviting people who support your position to this discussion? @user:Prodrummer619 Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't appreciate the false accusation of canvassing, as I have only pinged the two confirmed users who have participated in this discussion. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:40, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I pointed out what you did. The user I pinged is the one who added this category - surely you saw that? Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:00, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The cat is a subcat of Islamic terrorism in Lebanon, which already contains H (idk whether it should, I don't like cats). So seems redundant anyway. Selfstudier (talk) 12:31, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It's the other way around - Islamic terrorism in Lebanon is a subcat of this. But yeah, that makes sense, we only need the more specific sub category. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Now I am wondering if we should add the state terrorism category to Israel. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:45, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There is the State-sponsored terrorism cat which includes Terrorism by (various countries), you could probably add one for Israel. Selfstudier (talk) 15:04, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * State terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism are both possibilities, I wonder how much RS support there is for applying those labels to Israel. I can think of examples of both but I'm not an RS. My guess is there is also enough RS support for categorizing Hezbollah as terrorism and state-sponsored terrorism by Iran, but I've never looked it up. Levivich (talk) 18:28, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Nope, and shouldn't have to respond to non EC speechifying, either. Selfstudier (talk) 11:49, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Hezbollah’s secret service is not one of the best and it shouldn’t be said so in Wikipedia
In the secret service part it says: Hezbollah's secret services have been described as "one of the best in the world" what is the source for this Statement? 77.137.73.45 (talk) 17:15, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Statements in Wikipedia should have sources. Sources can be seen via the [.] symbol next to a statement.
 * The source in this case is apparently...
 * Engeland, Dr Anisseh Van; Rudolph, Ms Rachael M (2013). From Terrorism to Politics. Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. pp. 33–34. ISBN 978-1-4094-9870-4.
 * The statement is from page 33, in the chapter written by Van Engeland, Associate Professor of International Security & Law, titled "Hezbollah: from a Terrorist Group to a Political Party - Social Work as a Key to Politics"
 * Sean.hoyland (talk) 17:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC)