Talk:Hicham El Guerrouj

Tables for this entry
Why does it say "world recordman" next to so many of his performances? Not all of those were world records. Also, I've never heard the term "world recordman" used by any runners I know, either in person or on message boards. World record holder, yes. World recordman, no.

1996 Olympics
In the Morceli entry, there is no mention of a collision playing a factor in the race. What is considered to have happened? Is there any controversy? Smoove K 07:29, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

No controversy that I've heard of. El Guerrouj collided with another runner and fell.PurpleHaze 11:26, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Display Photo
I have uploaded an AFP photo under what I believe to be fair use policy.

Free licensed material was not immediately available for basic semblance of biography subject. Material was thus sought which "significantly improves the article it is included on," rather than being presented only for the purpose of estabishing subject's appearance. The photograph so found—i.e., the subject's victory in his extended pursuit of an Olympic gold medal—is, while copyrighted, a clear asset to subject's biographical article, and additionally provides a simple establishment of subject's appearance.

This photograph must not be construed to "replace the original market role of the original copyrighted media." Indeed, at 324x220, this photograph is low resolution. Moreover, the photograph, in its apotheosis of El Guerrouj's perhaps crowning achievement, should only increase a given reader's interest in El Guerrouj, in Olympic middle-distance running, and in historic athletic events overall. It is inevitable, then, that such increased interest should lead to increased viewership of news agency photographs, not excluding AFP.

Borat fan 02:25, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

2001 Brussels
The article states that El Guerrouj almost broke his own WR in the mile in 2001 with a time of 3:26:12. Since his WR stands at 3:43:13, it may have been meant to be entered as 3:46:12 or even 3:44:12. Does anyone know what time he ran? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.160.159 (talk) 21:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC).
 * No, it states that he almost broke his 1500m record, which was 3:26:00. The time is correct. 143.252.80.100 14:19, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

El Guerrouj's World Record
Somebody has mistakenly believed that El Guerrouj's world record for the one mile is 3:43.12. To prove that it is 3:43.13, I invoke the IAAF source here:. The IAAF is the ruling body for track and field and whatever they say is official. For example, even if somebody were to run the mile in 3:41 right now, it is not considered the world record until the IAAF declares it so. Mipchunk 23:20, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

El Guerrouj's 800m Personal Best
It has been commonly claimed that El Guerrouj ran a 1:42.70 800m in a practice session. I myself have heard these claims before, and I don't doubt that El Guerrouj can run or perhaps did run that fast, but to claim an unofficial clocking as a personal best is as good as claiming that my hand-timed 100m should be considered my fastest run ever. The process that goes into recognizing that a performance as official is more precise than one may expect. The track must conform to certain specifications. There have been instances where all the results from a normal 400m track were actually disqualified (from a record-making point of view) because it was found that the track was just ever so slightly not the right shape (often, these differences can be only by a few centimeters). The timing also must be very precise, starting exactly at the gun and stopping exactly when the runner crosses the line. So, I can believe that El Guerrouj ran a 1:42 in practice. But that does not constitute a personal best - a real race does. And, furthermore, unless I can see absolute proof of the exact 1:42.70 timing, and be assured that it is truly accurate down to the 1/100th of a second, we can't even accept that timing to be correct. Mipchunk 19:18, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Reply

It is really silly to say 1m 47 and write it as a personal best, when elguerrouj often ran 1m 44 to 1m 46 inside his 1500m races (first lap + last lap) or last 800m. (watch some youtube videos in 2002) and his race in the 2004 olympics to know what am talking about.i am a miler myself and i have more experience and informations about elguerrouj than you.

Elguerrouj did run a 1:42:70 and this has nothing to do with what you think personally, this is public knowledge, i remember exactly when this performance was done in 2002, Elguerrouj was supposed to participate in the 800m in zurikh 2002, but at the last moment he decided to make a world record attempt for the 1500m, if you dont know about that its your fault, (lake of knowledge) and a best time is a best time, hiding this from the public and the internet is disrespect for Hicham EL Guerrouj, read this document for some proofs about this time, www.olympic.ca/EN/games/panam/santodomingo/handbook/files/ATHLECTICS-ATHLETISME.pdf

i also have an interview with steve cram on vhs and he talks about EL G 1:42:70 time, i'll convert it to WMV and upload it on youtube in a couple of days too.

thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.249.6.77 (talk • contribs)


 * I think you misinterpreted my message. I understand that El Guerrouj ran what was clocked as 1:42.70 in the 800m in a practice, but this does not constitute an official timing. It has nothing to do with what I think personally. If you claim to be highly experienced in middle distance, then you know how important official results are to the IAAF. What you believe to be "public knowledge" is not sufficient - I want the proof. Either a video, an official timing result, a primary source. There is a reason why the IAAF exists - to offer such a source. Can you prove to me that the timing was exact and official? Prove that it wasn't hand-timed? Don't give arguments that claim El Guerrouj's official 800m best to be "silly" or "disrespectful" - that does not constitute grounds for changing information in an encyclopedia. You're thinking of "personal best" in more general terms, but when it comes to professional athletics, it must always be in technical terms. I am well aware that El Guerrouj has covered 800 metres in less than 1 minute 47 seconds - but it was as part of a 1500 m race and therefore doesn't count in any way whatsoever.


 * Everyone has heard of El Guerrouj's 1:42 clocking. Don't get me wrong, I heard about it too, a little while ago. But I want more than just widespread second/third-hand knowledge. What you offer as proof is merely another person who also heard of this 1:42.70 clocking. Undoubtedly El Guerrouj's performance was around 1:42. But there must be verification that the time was exactly this clocking, and an official clocking. Mipchunk 06:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have to agree w/ Mipchunk. Please provide something official. All i found is this (a forum discussion indeed):
 * This was what "Silva" said: YES 1 42 70 is his best time at 800, he did it in a training Session in stade moulay abdellah (Rabat), early in the 2002 Saison, how do i know that? am a morrocan athlete from rabat, training in the same track where elguerrouj used to live and train at age 16-18 and in the same track where this performance (1 42 70) was done.
 * I'm the Queen of England. Replied "Dumb and proud"! -- FayssalF  - Wiki me up®  19:51, 12 August 2007 (UTC)


 * i beg to differ, wikipedia is visited by normal users seeking for knowledge not iaaf and athletics professionals, a normal user would want to know what elguerrouj clocked for 800m and it doesnt matter if it was 1:42:69 or 1:42:71, do you release that writing 1:47 in wikipedia is not acceptable and very misleading for normal persons seeking knowledge ? a normal person who is not a track and field expert will not even remember the exact time, he will get the idea (1:42) and thats the most important thing, we, athletes are obsessed with numbers but its not the case for everyone else, you have to think from the users point of view before changing the content of wikipedia.
 * Wikipedia is about verifiability and not truth. How can your claim be verified? The policy states that "sources should be appropriate to the claims made: exceptional claims require exceptional sources." The bottom line is that Wikipedia offers readers text which can be easily verified. -- FayssalF  - Wiki me up®  15:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Reply: here is a reliable source: www.olympic.ca/EN/games/panam/santodomingo/handbook/files/ATHLECTICS-ATHLETISME.pdf

i understand that if this time was hand timed, then it may not be 100% exact may be 1:42:69 or 12:42:71, but we need to tell the public about this time, it must be added in the article.

thanks
 * I'd consider that as a reliable source but it doesn't mean that it is official. It is worth mentioning along w/ its source (in order for our readers to verify it) but it can't go into something official. -- FayssalF  - Wiki me up®  00:05, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. I can't email you to discuss this further and to get to know you but could you please try to email me? Thanks. FayssalF

Noting the debate, I have rearranged the table and moved the dot point about the non-IAAF 800m time before the table I hope this satisfies everyone. If someone can add a citation and a bit more detail to the 800m time, it might be useful. Does anyone know if he ever ran 800m at an IAAF event?Wikipeterproject (talk) 18:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Just saw that the IAAF includes the 800m time in their El Guerrouj bio (linked here). If IAAF include it, I guess we can too!  I have put a note and reference before the table.Wikipeterproject (talk) 18:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

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Orphaned references in Hicham El Guerrouj
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Hicham El Guerrouj's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "All-Athletics": From Ayanleh Souleiman:  From Jama Aden:  From Deresse Mekonnen:  From Filbert Bayi:  From Tariku Bekele:  <li>From Peter Snell: </li> <li>From Kenenisa Bekele: http://www.all-athletics.com/node/106286</li> <li>From Steve Cram: </li> <li>From Asbel Kiprop: </li> <li>From Mohammed Gammoudi: </li> </ul>

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