Talk:Hickman High School/Archive 1

Tunnels
I live in Ardmore, Oklahoma, right now, but I moved here 2 years ago from Columbia. I attended Gentry Middle and would have attended Jefferson Jr., and Hickman High, so I'm very interested in the "tunnel". From one of the other articles, a student confirmed the existence of it, but didn't get to go in. What is in those tunnels or what does it lead to that there is so much secrecy surrounding it? Maybe some Seniors on the last day of school could try to find it... just a thought. A friend of mine should be going there next year, Hans Robinson. If you should meet him, tell him my user name and he should know who I am. Prottos007 16:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Noose in the tunnels
Am I the only one who ever heard the bs myth about the guy hanging himself in the tunnels and leaving the noose? There is no way this is true. No one who ever told me about it ever actually believed it. But people still talked about it. It is part of the urban legend. Why is it not included? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.107.13.128 (talk) 05:36, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

A janitor committed suicide (by hanging) in a janitor's closet sometime in the 1970s that is the only death I've heard about. Grey Wanderer | Talk 01:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality/Weasel Words
It seems that some of the sections, the Fine Arts section in particular, inflate the success of Hickman without giving any statistics or data. It seems like the whole article was written by proponents of Hickman.

For example, "Hickman High School Choirs have a long tradition of excellence in the expression of the choral art." The "success" of the choir cannot be measured. Phrases like this weasel their way into the band sections, etc.

"Hickman Jazz bands and Combos consistently receive recognition..." There is no proof for these accolades. If scores from contests could be posted, that would solidify these claims. Otherwise, phrases like these are merely opinions. Hugatree1715 | Talk 02:55, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I edited the weasel-words you mentioned as well as some others, do you have any other concerns, or see any other fact that or unverified? If not, I'm going to go ahead and remove the tag. Oh and what did you have in mind for the copy-edit? Thanks! Grey Wanderer | Talk 03:33, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

The "copy-edit" tag was an accident; sorry if it caused any confusion. The page looks good, and the weasel words were my only concern. Hugatree1715 | Talk 18:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

POV
This article seems to be heavily pro Hickman and anti Rock Bbridge. Perhaps my bias in getting in the way of my better judgement, but some parts of the article just seem biased in and of themselves. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bobo The Ninja (talk • contribs) 20:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

If you tag an article you should give specific examples of what you think should be corrected. As far as I can tell the article does not mention Rock Bridge except in the Providence Bowl history. Grey Wanderer | Talk 21:14, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a personal thing, but since this is the Hickman page...should it really mention Rockbridge? I mean, if Rockbridge is mentioned, then we have to mention Douglass as well...so I think we should just make this one about Hickman. This doesn't mean heavily Pro-Hickman, and dissing Rockbridge, but we don't need to go too much into detail about Rockbridge. This is just what I think. Saber girl08 23:51, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No other schools need to be mentioned, especially just for the sake of being mentioned. On the other hand, Rockbridge is mentioned in context with the subject of the article, and I see no problem with that.  As for the original complaint... While I don't agree, I can understand how BTN's admitted bias can stretch to "pro Hickman," seeing as the article is about an honored school; however, the claim of "anti Rockbridge" is a strong accusation for which I see no basis at all. Mizzmona 07:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Wrestling
Sometime back, I saw a section on wrestling which was removed for length. Not a bad decision at the time, but it would be good to go back and salvage some part of it now as the original author did not return to modify it or even address the concerns. Imho, Hickman's article is sorely lacking for it. I have no time atm to do it, but did want to note this so as not to forget. If someone else wants to go back in history and snag that for some serious editing and post it, that would be nice (or I'll just try to get to it myself eventually). Mizzmona 07:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Assess
I agree with Columbia. If someone got the refs better set up and did some tidying then this could in the top 25 school wiki pages ..... we can help Victuallers 18:34, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandals...Again.
Perhaps someone could ban edits from 207.118.247.116? Especially since they can't seem to get it that the principal is not named "MRS. JEFFERS"? Cage 20:55, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Taken care of Grey Wanderer | Talk 12:42, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Hickman Review
Could somebody look into adding a section about the Hickman Review? Considering that it has been nationally recognized, the school's literary magazine certainly deserves some mention. Quelqu&#39;un 04:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll look into it, though with the politics of the thing, and my personal bias, it might be a good idea for someone else to look over it when I get something up. Cage 06:14, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Page Moved/Renamed
I've changed the title of the page to David H. Hickman High School so consequently there is a redirect from the page Hickman High School. Just to let you know. Grey Wanderer 21:47, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandals
We got ourselves a problem: some Rock Bridge people have been vandalizing.--ChicosBailBonds 18:19, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandals are fools. If they cared enough, they would actually vandalize the HHS campus, and not hide behind the veil of the internet. ~ Cage

Tunnels
I, as the aforementioned Cage, would like to thank the people who cleaned up the page, clarified the entire "Tunnel" issue, and deleted my name. (I must apoligize for my overenthusiastic friends, as I have not mapped anything, nor do the authorities condone my curiosity.) I will say that numerous members of the janitorial staff (who shall remain anonymous) have indeed confirmed the existance of the Tunnels, and I had been offered admission by one of them with a teacher's sanction. I acquired the sanction, but then the issue was posed of "Security," and I was then banned from my explorations. So I'm a Security Risk. Riiight. Oh well. (An unnamed teacher, however, refused to give me sanction, reasoning that it would make getting into the Tunnels too easy. I asked if he meant to suggest I sneak in, and he confirmed that, yes, I should have to sneak in.) I had been hoping to do a story on the Tunnels (hopefully the cover story) for my independent news magazine, the Subtle Underground, a student-run, student-written, as-unaffiliated-with-the-school-as-you-can-get project. The inagural issue should be distributed around the beginning of the 2006-2007 school year (my friends are lazy, we should be on issue three by now...). Cage


 * From this summary you have put and the fact that the section has remained in the article for quite some time with no one coming forward to verify that it is true I am removing the section. Please do not replace it without at the very minimum providing an acceptable source per WP:RS that at least the RUMORS exist.  I was a resident of Columbia for 23 years and went to Hickman and I never even heard of the rumors.  I actually feel bad for leaving the section this long because it feels like something someone put into wikipedia just to see if they could get away with creating an urban myth. Dalf | Talk 09:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

As a Hickman Alum, 20-year resident of Columbia, and local history buff, I can confirm the existence of the tunnels, but agree that the article needs sourcing. I've know I've read in several Hickman student publications about rumors, I'm going to work to track these down. I was the one who originally 'clarified' the article and deleted Cage's name. When I re-crafted it I deliberately added an element of ambiguity about the more far-feched of the tunnel legends, but gave confirmation to the existence of a support system beneath the school. But until I can find a proper source the section can stay out. - Osiris


 * So long as they are included only as "these are rumored" then I think all we need is a reference to the rumor existing. Without even that I think including this detail exposes Wikipedia to a lot of criticism. Surely the missourian or the tribune have an article mentioning the rumors if they are real.  Also to you claim you can confirm the exitance or the existance of the rumors? Dalf | Talk 00:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

The tunnels were/are filled with asbestos and the School likes to keep their existence very quite, for obvious reasons. That is why, as far as I know, the Tribune and the Missourian have never mentioned it, also there are many people that would simply not find the existence of tunnels newsworthy or interesting. The urban myth of tunnels is something that has been, as far as I can tell, discussed by students since the 1940's (both my grandparents, and mother are alumni). In my days at Hickman it was fashionable to question teachers about them. As to your question "Also to you claim you can confirm the exitance or the existance of the rumors?" rumors are a challenging thing to prove exist, as they tend to rarely be in written form. I'm wondering if it might be easier for me to just give proof of the existence of the tunnels, and then the existence of rumors would be something that could be taken for granted. opinion? -Osiris

I have also heard this rumor and have seen that they are true. -Bill Brasky


 * Well I don't know a rumor that has existed since the 1940's should have some documentation some where I would think.   I graduated in 1995 and had never heard of even the rumors.  Either way I feel very uncomfortable with it in the article with no source. Dalf | Talk 05:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Generally there is very little public documentation of tunnels like these, for the reason mentioned above - they aren't generally safe. In fact, many of them require workers to have a special "Confined Spaces" license to enter them. I have personally been in these tunnels under Hickman, and they are hot, cramped, and generally unpleasant. The "rumor" tunnel is one that supposedly runs a half mile or so to another school. -Samuel

I believe we should put the Tunnels section back in the main page, as a student, I believe that people should know about urban legends connected with the school. They're part of tradition, and the history and character of the school. The legends are what make a school what it is, who it is. It is defined by what people think of it, and Wikipedia is defined by comprehensive presentation of information. Or at least I thought it was. But I do feel that an air of mystery will do nothing but give the school a more interesting environment. Gah, I've been rambling. Terribly sorry, but I indeed hope that you got my point. ~ Cage


 * Totally agree with you Cage, there seems to be many more people in support of including the tunnel section than against it, which would lead me to believe that there are substantial rumors and myths surrounding them. I'll go ahead, pending any objections, and put the tunnel section back in as it was when Osiris cleaned it up originally.  We should continue to look for a good documentation of the tunnels, the only published documentation I remember was a article in the Purple and Gold (the school newspaper) several years ago.  Grey_Wanderer 01:23, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well this is most interesting development....opinions? http://www.uer.ca/forum_showthread.asp?fid=1&threadid=34152  Grey_Wanderer 01:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I think WP:RS says that bulitin board discussions are not "reliable sources" that can be used. Honestly, I am not even intrested in a source that says the unnels are there so much as a source that can substantiate the RUMORS of them being there.  This talk page also does not constitute a realiable source for that information.  It would be a terribly fun Highschool Prank to invent an Urban Legand, and I am intrested in a source we can use that indicates that, that is not what is going on. Dalf | Talk 02:48, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Grey_Wanderer. I was hesitant to put it back up without more input, so I was stalling. I believe I have that issue of Purple and Gold somewhere, and if not, during the 2004-2005 year P&G had something, if I remember correctly from my bumbling research. Just so you people know, I'm a junior at Hickman now, so I have access to some things you might not (like the campus itself...) I can do more research if anyone wants. ~Cage

After reading this section, I would have to agree with Cage. Not only have I heard the urban legend, but I also checked it out and the legend seemed to be true to an extent. But no doubt, I think this section should be added as an urban legend for it is apart of the school's history. Tubahero 22:54, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There we go, now I'm actually credited sort of more... I don't know. Currently assembling a team of students to research the tunnels, perhaps we should have a separate page just for the Tunnels, with a summary and a one of those "Main Article: Hickman Tunnels" things... God, my brain gets destroyed after not sleeping for two days. Cage

Awsome, I'd love to here more about the team you assembling, I spent the better part of 2003-2005 finding out every secret Hickman had to offer. It would be great to get some concrete research done, at the very least so we can appease Dalf. We might make a section on Urban Legends in general, so as to not make it too tunnel heavy. Grey Wanderer 22:04, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

(Caffeine... saves lives...) That would be excellent, an entire section devoted to urban legends... Perhaps we should just put up an entire page on Urban Legends of Columbia, make it part of the Columbia WikiProject. (Not that I know of that many, but regardless...) Cage 22:46, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

If no initiative is taken to reinstate the section on the Tunnels, and no motion made against it, I'll be putting it back up within the next week. It is a part of the school's character, and deserves to be put into the article, though I still think we need slightly more research, which should be added later. I have received confirmation of the existence of the Tunnels by more than one member of the janitorial staff, and at the very least, the section could be added with a disclaimer stating its nature as an urban legend. Cage 06:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed this again. As stated above, we need a refrence that it is even an urban legand and not just and urban legand someone is trying to start by putting it in wikipedia.  At present I am of the opnion that this is infact an attempt to start an urban legand rather than actually an existant one. Dalf | Talk 00:14, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Finally found the school newspapers reference to it, I knew I had saved it. Grey Wanderer | Talk 12:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks, Grey Wanderer. As an alumni of Hickman, I can also attest that there were rumors of tunnels when I attended in the early 70's. No one is trying to start the legend, it already existed.  (And predates the Internet, nevermind Wikipedia. Ow, but my age is showing. ;-) Mizzmona 22:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:38, 1 May 2016 (UTC)