Talk:Hierarchy of Alienness

It is mentioned in the revision history that the term "djur" from Speaker of the Dead is not part of the Hierarchy. I agree but I think it should still be included and explained or theorized why it is not included.

I don't have my book on me but I remember thinking that it's not part of the Hierarchy because it's not a NPOV about a species. A Djur was described as a beast that only exists to destroy and this is a description that is more about fear, superstition and judgement.

The Hierarchy, to me at least, spoke of origin and communication and how we are able to relate and/or distance ourselves from a group's position on the Hierarchy. So would a djur be something outside of the hierarchy? Or is it a label that could concievable be applied to any group on the hierarchy (because of differing views/beliefs or philosophies)?

I was wondering how others viewed this.

Donald Antonini 15:08, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it is an actual piece of the Hierarchy, but, nonetheless, it could fit into the topic. It would be nice to add in as a "questional part of the Hierarchy", or something along those lines. Loggerisms

NOTE: Discussion on merge move to Talk:Ender's_Game_Series NThurston 19:44, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Michael valentine Smith is framling?
I'm not sure I agree. I think there may be better examples. Since MVS was raised by martians, he is almost a different species even if genetically similar. Thoughts?  + + Lar: t/c 20:23, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Origin Language
Before I revert the most recent edit in which the origin language for the terms was changed from Swedish to Norwegian, I would like to clarify why I do so. A note by the author in the section Pronouncing Foreign Names states that "The Nordic spoken on Trondheim evolved from Swedish." NHammen 20:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Predators as Varelse
I don't think that Predators qualify as 'varelse.' At the end of Predator 2, after Danny Glover kills the Predator that's been hunting humans in Los Angeles, the Predator Chief (?) gives him an antique pistol (presumably taken from a previous human prey) and leaves him in peace (to escape from the Predator ship launch). Also, in the movie "Alien vs. Predator," the final surviving Predator assists the human female character in a joint effort to survive by defeating the Alien (I think it was referred to as 'Grid' in the credits), using demonstrations and simple sign language (it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I'm pretty sure that the main points are correct). Basically, Predators are inimical to humans designated as prey, but within an honor system, and not incapable of communication with humanity. Peaceful coexistence? Hmmmm, I'm open to vigorous dispute and re-editing, but given humanity's history of shifting alliances of convenience, peaceful coexistence is a bit dodgy in and of itself. I've made a similar edit and comments on the Ender's Game page. The Aliens, on the other hand, have never spared anyone except for Sigourney Weaver's character, and in that case, only when she was carrying an Alien larva, I'd definitely put them as varelse.

BaikinMan 21:26, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, I do see your point. If not varelse, then what do you think that they are? &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 21:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I do apologize for not having replied to your question earlier, had some computer problems and then pretty much forgot the issue. I guess I'd have to say that Predators are ramen, just exceptionally unfriendly ones. People that would be classified as Utlannings and Framlings (according to the current version of the page, which I have no disagreement with) have been at each other's throats, down to the level of genocide, endless times. The Predators are capable of communication, the question of whether or not they are capable of "peaceful" coexistence with humans hasn't really been addressed, since there is only a very limited portrayal of Predator society in the three movies. (I've never read any of the comic series, so I don't know if there is other information out there, sorry), but it is possible that the Predators encountered in the movies are not representative of their species. BaikinMan 06:11, 11 August 2006 (UTC)