Talk:High Street/Archives/2013

Main Street in Canada
In my experience Main Street is not the primary shopping street in any large city in Canada (I live near Main Street in Vancouver, but Robson would be Vancouver's High Street Equivalent). It is a name more associated with small towns, where it may or may not actually be named this (or referred to as X St. is the main street in town). It's not like High St. in the UK which is very often actually called that. I feel Main st. is almost more of an expression here, likely imported from the US, we understand it and the concept, but the street itself is likely called something else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.180.199.227 (talk) 17:44, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the idea is that this is for small towns like Aylmer, Quebec (rue Principale) or Bath, Ontario (Main Street). "A small town where the main street is still Main Street." In large cities, the name is often in use for something else, so the main street is Yonge Street in Toronto or Bank Street in Ottawa. Many small villages annexed to Ottawa (such as Manotick, Ontario) do use "Main Street" on its own or disambiguated by prefixing it with the village name ("Manotick Main").
 * I question the inclusion of "Front Street". That has a specific meaning... usually the major street closest to the waterfront at the time a town was settled. Not quite the same. K7L (talk) 13:24, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation move
Ian peters 03:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
I moved the page a little prematurely - created the High Street (disambiguation) page instead. Ian peters 03:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * So we really need to move High Street (disambiguation) to High Street. That seems to make the most sense.  Vegaswikian 06:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support moving this page back to High Street. This meaning is by far the primary topic for the term. --Vclaw 15:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 07:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Romans
Is there really no historical connection to the Romans' building up of many good, built-up (high) roads throughout England? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caroljm36 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge
High Street is the same as Main Street. Different names for the same thing. SilkTork 17:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * No to Merger
 * They are not the same in my view. As a Brit I would never think of looking up Main Street, it's very rare, relatively, in the UK. How would those on the other side of the pond feel about merging main street into High Street? After all high streets have been with us for hundreds of years. Leave well alone; separate entries reflect more accurately the cultural heritage of how different countries use language. --212.159.67.130 Malcolm 21:05, 8 July 2006


 * yes don't merge. -- 128.250.37.103 26 July 2006


 * Agreed, don't merge Jmptdc 23:21, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No to merger. In the UK and Ireland, "High street" has a very distinct connotation, including as a matter of language. "Main street" is plainly an American term/concept. --86.135.184.101 15:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Object. Very different issues of history and local culture between the two terms. DWaterson 20:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree - don't merge. I would not have found the information I was seeking if it had been merged under the American title. --203.109.202.33 13 September 2006


 * Merge. I live in Ireland and the main street is just that: main street or, in the Irish everywhere, An tSráid Mhór. 'High Street' is extremely rare as a common noun in Ireland, although unionists might use it as a way to assert their Britishness. I notice the British spokespersons for newly arrived British stores like Debenhams do refer to 'High Street' sales in Ireland though. They do stand out with that usage, however. 'Main Street' is by no means an Americanism, and the fact that the signs in some of my local towns are still 'An tSráid Mhór' (The big/great/main street) on the old Irish script street signs from the pre-1950s [pre 1948?] would confirm this. 213.202.184.252 (talk) 04:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Grande Rue
"In French the literal translation, Grande Rue, is used."

So what is Grande Rue supposed to be a translation of? High Street? Main Street? Fore Street? Front Street? All doesn't fit a "literal translation". Or does anybody here speaking French feel grande can also mean high?

Apart from the "literal" issue, I don't think it's a translation at all. I mean, even if they said "Rue Haute" (literally analogous, afaik only exists in a spacial sense) to denominate the same concept as "High Street" does, that wouldn't mean it's a translation (from e.g. English). Else one could as well argue that street names meaning "Main Street" in various languages are translations from English ... and I guess that expression exists in a majority of languages, as you don't have to be very creative to combine the words for "main" and "street" for designating the principal street in where you live.

So for the first, I deleted that sentence. Cheers, Edwing 22:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Capitalize "street" ?
Why is this article at High street not High Street? Surely the latter is more common? -- Graham :) | Talk 14:13, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Possibly because the two terms are not always synonymous. In my town, Bewdley, the main street is Load Street, while High Street is so called simply because it is high above the river. Loganberry (Talk) 22:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * In Dublin 'High Street' is so-called because there was an early medieval High Cross there in the historic heart of the city. The article doesn't mention any link to High Crosses in the British root of the name. Does anybody know if there is any connection?


 * Well that was a dumb move. This article is not about a particular street, so it should not be capitalized, right? --Adoniscik(t, c) 17:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Virtually Incomprehensible
"However compared to the United States town and city centre shopping remains widespread." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.193.62 (talk) 23:01, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems pretty straight forward to me. In the USA the center of a town or city is normally devoted to industry and possibly entertainments like theaters or cinemas. Retails shops are normally in malls on the edge of town and food shopping is likewise normally in out of town supermarkets. In the UK shopping centers (malls) are becoming more common but there are still more traditional town centers than you'll find in the US. Even the shopping centers are often in the middle of town with their main entrance on the high street. 109.145.208.77 (talk) 09:59, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * True - various uncited assertions completely point of view or biased amount to a character assassination of it as a place e.g. 'begun a decline' - most of the article is pure journalese. Very little of the rest of the article would not equally apply to Main Street so if it is now time for a merger (with a section United Kingdom is very arguable.  Other countries have even more zany patterns, such as (big) cities in Holland, as someone has decided to add in whistle-stop tour of their favourite comparator countries in the lead.  France and Holland have markedly different languages.  The obvious solution is subsections under Main Street for each country/set of identical usages.  Before you dismiss the notion, fellow editors, a good comparison is the similar article constable.-  Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Origin
I was always taught that the "high" of highstreet refered to the height of the houses. The most inner part of a city having the highest ground prices, and thus the highest houses. (and in medieval times 3-4 stories was considered very high). That was for the Dutch synonym "Hoogstraat" though, maybe the UK term has different origins as mentioned in the article 88.159.71.34 (talk) 15:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sort of. High was always used for high road or highway to imply chief, like high sheriff and high treason, see highwayman.  London keeps two high roads in former rural towns now part of the metropolis.  The modern equivalent 'important' only came into widespread everyday speech centuries after Shakespeare.-  Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Halifax survey
The article refers to a survey by Halifax but I was unable to locate any reference to this particular survey on the internet. The article would greatly benefit from this citation.Soulparadox (talk) 11:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not sure any such survey on such a wide, locally divergent topic, is relevant. It would perhaps be in an WP:EDITORIAL of course.  Hence the lack of your response.  Indeed no contributors to this page for a long while, on major open questions, suggests that people do not approve of the page.  I've re-opened the merge debate. -  Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Merge (2)
Ground 2 which calls for a merge: "Overlap: There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Wikipedia is not a dictionary; there does not need to be a separate entry for every concept. For example, "flammable" and "non-flammable" can both be explained in an article on flammability.". I would invite serious contributors to this encyclopedia to consider this and then the article and then please state in what way this policy would not apply, for moving all of this content, suitably reduced to relevant sections on each country, to main street. A redirect will direct research to the correct section(s). - Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation move
Ian peters 03:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
I moved the page a little prematurely - created the High Street (disambiguation) page instead. Ian peters 03:48, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * So we really need to move High Street (disambiguation) to High Street. That seems to make the most sense.  Vegaswikian 06:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support moving this page back to High Street. This meaning is by far the primary topic for the term. --Vclaw 15:07, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 07:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Romans
Is there really no historical connection to the Romans' building up of many good, built-up (high) roads throughout England? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Caroljm36 (talk • contribs) 18:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge
High Street is the same as Main Street. Different names for the same thing. SilkTork 17:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * No to Merger
 * They are not the same in my view. As a Brit I would never think of looking up Main Street, it's very rare, relatively, in the UK. How would those on the other side of the pond feel about merging main street into High Street? After all high streets have been with us for hundreds of years. Leave well alone; separate entries reflect more accurately the cultural heritage of how different countries use language. --212.159.67.130 Malcolm 21:05, 8 July 2006


 * yes don't merge. -- 128.250.37.103 26 July 2006


 * Agreed, don't merge Jmptdc 23:21, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No to merger. In the UK and Ireland, "High street" has a very distinct connotation, including as a matter of language. "Main street" is plainly an American term/concept. --86.135.184.101 15:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Object. Very different issues of history and local culture between the two terms. DWaterson 20:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree - don't merge. I would not have found the information I was seeking if it had been merged under the American title. --203.109.202.33 13 September 2006


 * Merge. I live in Ireland and the main street is just that: main street or, in the Irish everywhere, An tSráid Mhór. 'High Street' is extremely rare as a common noun in Ireland, although unionists might use it as a way to assert their Britishness. I notice the British spokespersons for newly arrived British stores like Debenhams do refer to 'High Street' sales in Ireland though. They do stand out with that usage, however. 'Main Street' is by no means an Americanism, and the fact that the signs in some of my local towns are still 'An tSráid Mhór' (The big/great/main street) on the old Irish script street signs from the pre-1950s [pre 1948?] would confirm this. 213.202.184.252 (talk) 04:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Grande Rue
"In French the literal translation, Grande Rue, is used."

So what is Grande Rue supposed to be a translation of? High Street? Main Street? Fore Street? Front Street? All doesn't fit a "literal translation". Or does anybody here speaking French feel grande can also mean high?

Apart from the "literal" issue, I don't think it's a translation at all. I mean, even if they said "Rue Haute" (literally analogous, afaik only exists in a spacial sense) to denominate the same concept as "High Street" does, that wouldn't mean it's a translation (from e.g. English). Else one could as well argue that street names meaning "Main Street" in various languages are translations from English ... and I guess that expression exists in a majority of languages, as you don't have to be very creative to combine the words for "main" and "street" for designating the principal street in where you live.

So for the first, I deleted that sentence. Cheers, Edwing 22:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Capitalize "street" ?
Why is this article at High street not High Street? Surely the latter is more common? -- Graham :) | Talk 14:13, 17 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Possibly because the two terms are not always synonymous. In my town, Bewdley, the main street is Load Street, while High Street is so called simply because it is high above the river. Loganberry (Talk) 22:49, 25 September 2005 (UTC)


 * In Dublin 'High Street' is so-called because there was an early medieval High Cross there in the historic heart of the city. The article doesn't mention any link to High Crosses in the British root of the name. Does anybody know if there is any connection?


 * Well that was a dumb move. This article is not about a particular street, so it should not be capitalized, right? --Adoniscik(t, c) 17:54, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Virtually Incomprehensible
"However compared to the United States town and city centre shopping remains widespread." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.193.62 (talk) 23:01, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Seems pretty straight forward to me. In the USA the center of a town or city is normally devoted to industry and possibly entertainments like theaters or cinemas. Retails shops are normally in malls on the edge of town and food shopping is likewise normally in out of town supermarkets. In the UK shopping centers (malls) are becoming more common but there are still more traditional town centers than you'll find in the US. Even the shopping centers are often in the middle of town with their main entrance on the high street. 109.145.208.77 (talk) 09:59, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * True - various uncited assertions completely point of view or biased amount to a character assassination of it as a place e.g. 'begun a decline' - most of the article is pure journalese. Very little of the rest of the article would not equally apply to Main Street so if it is now time for a merger (with a section United Kingdom is very arguable.  Other countries have even more zany patterns, such as (big) cities in Holland, as someone has decided to add in whistle-stop tour of their favourite comparator countries in the lead.  France and Holland have markedly different languages.  The obvious solution is subsections under Main Street for each country/set of identical usages.  Before you dismiss the notion, fellow editors, a good comparison is the similar article constable.-  Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Origin
I was always taught that the "high" of highstreet refered to the height of the houses. The most inner part of a city having the highest ground prices, and thus the highest houses. (and in medieval times 3-4 stories was considered very high). That was for the Dutch synonym "Hoogstraat" though, maybe the UK term has different origins as mentioned in the article 88.159.71.34 (talk) 15:28, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sort of. High was always used for high road or highway to imply chief, like high sheriff and high treason, see highwayman.  London keeps two high roads in former rural towns now part of the metropolis.  The modern equivalent 'important' only came into widespread everyday speech centuries after Shakespeare.-  Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Halifax survey
The article refers to a survey by Halifax but I was unable to locate any reference to this particular survey on the internet. The article would greatly benefit from this citation.Soulparadox (talk) 11:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I am not sure any such survey on such a wide, locally divergent topic, is relevant. It would perhaps be in an WP:EDITORIAL of course.  Hence the lack of your response.  Indeed no contributors to this page for a long while, on major open questions, suggests that people do not approve of the page.  I've re-opened the merge debate. -  Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Merge (2)
Ground 2 which calls for a merge: "Overlap: There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Wikipedia is not a dictionary; there does not need to be a separate entry for every concept. For example, "flammable" and "non-flammable" can both be explained in an article on flammability.". I would invite serious contributors to this encyclopedia to consider this and then the article and then please state in what way this policy would not apply, for moving all of this content, suitably reduced to relevant sections on each country, to main street. A redirect will direct research to the correct section(s). - Adam37   Talk  13:10, 17 October 2013 (UTC)