Talk:Highland Fencible Corps

The Scots Magazine, 1795


In 1795 the above source listed some senior commissions for Highland Fencible regiments:
 * Perth (Highland) regiment of fencibles. Major William Robertson, from an independent company, to be Colonel, with the permanent rank of Lieutenant Colonel in the army. Capt. John Robertson, from half-pay of the late independant companies, to be Lieutenant Colonel. Donald Macdonald, Esq; to be Major.
 * Fiseshire regt. of fencible infantry. Major James Durham, from the Scots Brigade, to be Colonel, with the permanent rank of Lieut. Colonel in the army. Capt Thomas Durham, from Lord Hopeton's fencibles, to be Lieutenant Colone
 * Glengary fencible infantry. Alexander Macdonnell, Esq. to be Colonel. Capt. Charles Maclean, from the Argyle fencibles, to be Lieutenant Colonel. Mat. Macalister, Esq. to be Major.
 * 3rd (or West Lowland) fencible infantry. Capt. William Mure, of the late 82nd, to be Lieutenant Colonel, vice Douglas.
 * Angus-shire fencible infantry. Archibald Douglas, Esq. to be Colonel. Major David Hunter, from the 7th foot, 2nd bat. to be Lieutenant Colonel, with permanent rank in the army. George Earl of Glasgow to be Major.
 * A regiment of fencible infantry. Major Tho. Earl of Elgin, from the 12th, to be Colonel with the permanent rak of Lieutenant Colonel in the army. John Hepburn Belches Esq. to be Lieutenant Colonel. Pat. Tyler Esq. to be Major.
 * Dumbartonshire Fencible Infantry. Murdoch M'Laine. Esq; to be Lieutenant-Colonel Francis James Scott, Esq; to be Major.
 * Breadalbane fencible infantry, 3d bat. Major John Earl of Breadalbane, from the 78th, to be Colonel, with, the permanent rank of Lieutenant-Colonel in the army. John Campbell, Esq; to be Lieutenant-Colonel, Captain Alexander Nairne, from the 1st bat, to be Major.
 * Loyal Tay fencible infantry. Robert Anstruther, Esq; to be Colonel.
 * Argyleshire fencibles. Major Henry M. Clavering, from the 98th foot, to be Colonel. Capt. John Campbell, from the half-pay of the late independent companies, to be Lieutenant-Colonel.
 * Rothsay and Caithness fencible infantry, 1st bat. Major the Earl of Glasgow, from the Angus fencibles, to be Lieutenant Colonel, vice the Earl of Caithness, who retires. Capt. David Rae to be Major, vice Tames Fraser, promoted in the 2d battalion.

These may be of some use in expanding the article -- PBS (talk) 19:06, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Glengarry Fencibles (1794)
This section will need some work because the more recent biography article on the colonel of the regiment in the ODNB states that most recruits came from the Glengarry estates and that many were recruited on the threat of eviction of their families if they did not.


 * Brian D. Osborne, The Last of the Chiefs (Argyll Publishing, 2001)

-- PBS (talk) 15:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Coercion
A problem with this article is that the PD source is written from a Victorian POV which tends to gloss over the threat of eviction of parents if their son's did not "volunteer". For example the 21st century ODNB which is used as a source for the biography article on Alexander Ranaldson MacDonell -- colonel of the Glengarry Fencibles -- states: "In August 1794, while still only twenty, he received a colonel's commission to raise the first fencible regiment of Glengarry Highlanders. Recruits were drawn principally from the Glengarry estates, threats of eviction being used where persuasion failed. His earlier attempt to raise an avowedly Catholic regiment failed because of official concern about whether such a unit would be publicly acceptable. Macdonell served with his regiment on garrison duty in Guernsey until August 1796, when he resigned command."

Something rather different from the current wording in the article, although I am not sure the ODNB is no being slightly economical with the truth on the Catholic bit as it was probably the only regiment in the British army to have a Roman Catholic chaplain

A similar point is made is this less reliable source: "2nd Bn. 95th Rifles: The Highland Company of the 95th Rifles but it quotes John Prebble, The Highland Clearances (Penguin, 1963) p.148. So the point about the Highland Clearances and the use of coercion that something that needs to be emphasised more in the article.-- PBS (talk) 15:06, 8 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I found an HTML comment in the article along the same lines, under the "Lochaber Fencibles (1799)" section: 'This is sugar coated POV for an alternative: "In 1799 Donald Cameron of Lochiel had raised young men for the Lochaber Fencibles by the time-honoured fashion of threatening to evict their parents, and the despicable Highland Clearances of the time meant there was no shortage of recruits." 2nd Bn. 95th Rifles: The Highland Company of the 95th Rifles (and unreliable source) but quotes John Prebble, The Highland Clearances (Penguin, 1963) p. 148' That's probably correct, and this is a source someone can obtain and use to improve the neutrality and accuracy of the article, which as I've noted below was just copy-pasted en masse from an old Victorian book.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:14, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Services were limited to Scotland?
Quote The first and second battalions of the Breadalbane Fencibles were discharged in 1799 along with the Grant, Gordon, Sutherland, Rothsay, Caithness, (1st battalion) Argyle, and Hopetoun Fencible regiments, whose services were limited to Scotland. Unquote. The Gordon Fencibles were 1794 moved to England, as is stated in the article. Likewise, the Hopetoun Fencibles were in Liverpool in the same year. This section requires amendment. Were the Hopetoun Fencibles 'Highland'? Shipsview (talk) 13:37, 19 December 2013 (UTC)


 * in the List of British fencible regiments the Hopetoun Fencibles are under the name Southern Regiment and they were probably not a Highland regiment. I would not doubt that some of the information in this article can be amended using more sources. That particular sentence was copied from the text as cited "Browne 1854, p. 372." It maybe that Brown tacked on the "whose services were limited to Scotland" to mean just the Hopetoun Fencibles, or he may have been mistaken about including Gordon Fencibles. From where did you obtain the information that the Hopetoun Fencibles were in Liverpool? -- PBS (talk) 21:27, 10 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Men of The Hopetoun Fencibles were called as witnesses in the trial of David Downie for High Treason (1794). It was stated that attempts were made on the men to mutiny as they were billetted in Dalkeith en route to Liverpool, from where the witnesses were summoned . Thank you for your interest in this matter.Shipsview (talk) 09:20, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Inverness Fencibles error
The letters of service for the Inverness Fencibles must have been issued to Baillie of DUNAIN, (for whom there is plenty of evidence) not "Baillie of Duncan", who is clearly a typo. Delahays (talk) 13:23, 24 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I will fix this. There is no such thing as "Baillie of Duncan".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  06:06, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Non-encyclopedic wording
This article is overflowing with editorialising, Victorian-styled wording that is not encyclopedic and was probably lifted directly from a 19th century source. Some examples: There are many more. This entire article needs a once-over (also for typos, grammar, missing words, punctuation, etc.) by someone with some time on their hands. I'm in the middle of overhauling another article or I'd do it already. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * "conducted themselves with great propriety"
 * "conducted themselves in that unfortunate service with as much forbearance as circumstances would permit"
 * "the only opportunity they had of proving their firmness in the unhappy service in which they were engaged"
 * I can confirm that much of the text here was just copy-pasted from Brown (1854). Not a copyright violation, but not good encyclopedic practice.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:57, 2 July 2023 (UTC)