Talk:Higurashi When They Cry/Archive 1

Font?
What font encodning I'm supposed to use in order to read orginal names instead of question marks?
 * UTF-8. Modern browsers should autodetect what character encoding to use and it's usually specified in the page's source code metatags. --62.142.255.210 01:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Internal Links
I removed a ton of links that were wikilinked, as in the "" were around a ton of terms that had no wiki pages, making the article look as if it was bleeding. I don't know if this was intentional or not due to the fact that there is a red Na in the title, but it was totally unnecessary to have that many wikilinks in the article. It made it too hard on the eyes to read, so I've reduced it by a lot.

Also, in the future, don't wikilink the same term in the same article. If it was linked once, that's enough. I say this since a lot of of terms that were red when wikilinked were linked several times, which again, is totally unnecessary.--Juhachi 01:37, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Red "na"
This is ridiculous. We do not reproduce logotypes. I am changing them all to normal-coloring. Nohat 06:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You do that, and you'll have a ton of people who'll just revert it, including me. The red Na is an official part of the title, and should therefore be kept as is.--Juhachi 06:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Though I do think the line "The correct title of this article is Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. It appears incorrectly here due to technical restrictions." is a bit overdoing it. _dk 07:19, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I tend to agree with that too, though I wasn't sure if leaving that up did more good than bad...--Juhachi 08:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You should consult Manual of Style (trademarks), which says "Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner encourages special treatment", and gives an example of a trademark presented in red text as the incorrect way to do it. Including the red text is simply incorrect and a violation of the Manual of Style. Nohat 21:46, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's worth noting that even the game's official site does not consistently use a red な in the title; in fact, it only does so about half the time. So clearly the author himself does not make a religion out of this. &mdash; Haeleth Talk 16:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand what is said in the manual of style, but I feel that this case is somewhat dfferent. The red Na is part of the title; leaving it out means that the title is in fact incorrect. It may or may not have relevance when deciphering the mystery, but regardless of this, it is a part of said mystery. Obviously the goal of Wikipedia is to provide the best information possible, so it seems counter-intuitive and rather contrary to enforce this rule, and thereby provide misinformation.


 * At the very least, could it not be shown once within the article? The Manual of Style (trademarks) also says: "In the article about a trademark, it is acceptable to use decorative characters the first time the trademark appears, but thereafter, an alternative that follows the standard rules of punctuation should be used". While red Na is not a decorative character in this sense, it is similar in many ways, and I don't think it would be unreasonable to place it under this rule. Adelaster 00:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The article already shows an image of the logotype with a red "Na", as well as stating that the red "Na" is part of the "official" title. What new information would displaying an additional red "Na" provide? Nohat 00:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I could discuss this further, but I see that there's little point in doing so, so I'll drop it. I wouldn't be suprised to see this taken up again by someone else though, as I've seen discussion of this in other places. Adelaster 16:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

To bring this up again, while I have no particular knowledge of this piece of work, Naming conventions (technical restrictions) lists it as the example of when to use the template. I am going to add it here per that convention. --mordicai. 22:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It was there because the person who originally put the notice up on this page went over there to add that little tibit. I'll go remove it as it is a violation of WP:MOSTM _dk 01:09, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move of episode list
Since this article is now 34KB in length, and since there will end up being 26 episodes for this series, I think it's about time the episodes list get split off into it's own article. This has been happening a lot lately with the new series; like List of Strawberry Panic! episodes, List of Ouran High School Host Club episodes and List of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya episodes.  十  八  17:37, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Proposed massive split
After looking at what the article has become at the end of today after I created about 10 seperate articles and the template Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, I now propose one of my last major changes for this article. That is, to split off the Media subsections into their own articles. This makes sense since more than half of the current article is just the Media section alone and if that was shortented then it would be easier to read and navagate through the media sections, especially if they were on seperate articles. This would also give more meaning to the template I made. I propose they should be split to the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (video game), Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (manga), and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (anime) articles, while leaving smaller sub-sections behind on the main article, which then could be changed to Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (series). What do you think?  十  八  04:55, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Since you already made an article for each seperate chapter of the game, I think all the manga and anime information can go into their respective chapters. I suggest doing this because there are different manga covering each chapter....And I don't think there is enough information to split into so many articles. _dk 05:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah your right, that would be better. I'll get right to it.  十  八  05:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Is this going to be done? -Seventh Holy Scripture 07:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Side note: Userbox
I just had enough free time on my hands to make a new userbox (my first actually) for any Higurashi fans out there:  十  八  08:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry to break it to you but....I don't think fair use images are allowed on templates, even with a rationale. That aside, I'm using it :D _dk 09:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh crap; you're right. I didn't even know. On the WP:Userboxes page, it lists it out in plain English; oh well, I guess I'll try to think of something else to do for the picture...But thanks for using the first version of the userbox. :D  十  八  15:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Later edit: Okay, I just replaced the pic from the anime with the kanji for Hinamizawa. I did like the other version better, but I wouldn't want to go against policy.  十  八  16:11, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Translating Higurashi
I don't know if the English community has already settled upon the translated title "When Cicadas Cry", but I wanted to point out that "Cicada" isn't a accurate translation for Higurashi. Higurashi are indeed cicada, to be precise it's the species Tanna japonensis and it's characterized by it's distinctive call which can be usually haired in the evening (a sample of the sound can be found on the Japanese Wiki). The Japanese Wiki states the English name of Tanna japonensis to be Evening cicada but I don't know if that is an official name but The title would be "When The Evening Cicadas Cry".
 * When it comes to a a direct English translation, on the official game covers, under the main title it states "When They Cry". Check it out on the first game cover. When it comes to translating Higurashi, I do find your information interesting, but if we changed the title of the literal translation, we'd then have to supply this extra information which really has no bearing on the series itself, so I say to just keep it as "When Cicadas Cry". -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 23:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Criticism

 * Someone invent a section on criticism for Deen's adaption of Higurashi. 68.189.82.81 06:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? It's not like any of it would contain any facts as it would all be opinion and from what I'm found, everyone loves the anime version. -- (  十八  |   talk  ) 18:13, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * You should go on animesuki sometimes. Anyways, unless someone publishes an article on a newspaper that openly criticizes Higurashi, any criticism section here would be original research. _dk 19:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That's still an opinion. It's not like Higurashi was criticized for encouraging violence among viewers ala Grand Theft Auto.69.224.42.27 08:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

This seems dubious
Under Rena Ryūgū: "She tends to end sentences with ~kana, kana as a reference to the noise that the cicadas make around the area." Can anyone varify this? Either from a mention in the games or otherwise. As far as I know "kana" just means, loosely, "I wonder". It is an odd habit in her speech to say it twice, but I rather doubt the cicada noise reference. But then again, I'm not really aware what the gion for cicadas is.--SeizureDog 21:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I found at this site that the Japanese onomatopoeia for the cicada's sound is mi--n mi--n, which of course is much close to Rika's Mii~ or even Satoko's Nii-Nii, though maybe there are multiple ways of describing the cicada's sound. Here's a list of a ton of Japanese onomatopoeia and again it lists the cicada sound as Miin miin = The sound of cicadas in the summer. Additionally, there was no Kana~Kana listed and I couldn't find it anywhere. So that might in effect be original research.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 22:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * My experience tells me that cicadas also go kanakanakanakana in Japanese, so I don't really doubt that statement. A Higurashi manga also depicts them going kanakanakanakana, btw. _dk 01:29, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, the Japanese wikipedia page for evening cicadas says this:
 * "その鳴き声から一般にはカナカナ、あるいはカナカナ蝉などと呼ばれることがある. 秋の季語. " and this: "オスの鳴き声は「カナカナカナ…」や「ケケケケケ…」などと聞こえる. " So there you go. _dk 09:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * And now once more in English, for those of us who can't read kanji or katakana ... Art is life and life is an art. 14:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
 * "The crying sound of male [cicadas] can be heard as "Kanakanakana...", "Kekekekekeke...", or the such". Atashi 03:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Even so, it still looks like OR to me. Can we verify this was the intent?--SeizureDog 22:04, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The reference seems plausible... but might just be coincidence, as she also has a tendency to "rhyme" the last syllables of other words besides kana... darou...arou

Anonymous 11 October 2006

Dubious Red Herrings
Having watched through the anime, I saw no indication that Takano was interested in photography. Is her alleged interest in photography something mentioned in the computer doujinshi? DavidJohns 02:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd assume so. I can't imagine why somebody would add something random like that if it wasn't mentioned in the games or drama CDs or manga or something, at least.  Moogy   ( talk )  02:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * There was a scene where Keiichi sees Takano and Tomitake with cameras where one of them said Takano was interested in taking pictures...forgot which episode that was, though. _dk 02:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Episode 10, at the Furude Shrine. Takano actually says Tomitake's "just giving some pointers to an amateur", which is open to interpretation- she does have a camera, though. -Seventh Holy Scripture 06:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

More sections?
Could someone make a section on the Nakanai Kimi no Nageki no Sekai videos, as well as the newer chapters like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei, Saigoroshi-Hen, Nekogoroshi-Hen, and Hirukowashi-Hen?
 * I for one don't know anything about these sections, but you seem to know at least some info on those things; why not just create them yourself?-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 00:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Nakanai Kimi no Nageki no Sekai is a MAD series; those are hardly unique. It might warrant a sentence somewhere, but not a section of its own. And "Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei"... is that the upcoming fun disc? -Seventh Holy Scripture 03:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I assume that Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei (ひぐらしのなく頃に礼) is either the fun disc or the cellphone version... I'll look around on Ryukishi's site. Moogy   ( talk )  14:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Is Irie a lolicon?
I say he is more of a meido-con because that's what he always says in the games...what with MAID IN HEAVEN, Maid and Curry Republic (from Daybreak), and etc. There he is more obsessed with maids than with lolis, I believe. I realize in the anime his lolicon side is shown more prominently, but even so...Irie says he'll wait for Satoko to grow up before he marries her! This is not what a lolicon says! A lolicon would want his love interest to stay 12 years old for eternity! TWELVE YEAR OLDS BANZAI! O口O *gets mauled away by the police*...but I have no desire to have an edit war over this, so I'll just leave a message here explaining my edit before I was reverted =D _dk 02:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I went to the Japanese wiki to check on this, and they made great mentions of his maid fetish and nothing on being a lolicon. So....if no one objects I'll change it again. _dk 21:45, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

GA nomination
I have nominated this article for GA nomination.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 18:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

GA on hold
This article is mostly well-written and quite thorough, and all images are appropriately tagged. However, there are a few issues that prevent me from promoting it to GA status as it stands:

That's a lot of bullet points, but I don't think there's actually that much wrong -- the main points are the citations and the lack of information about some characters and story arcs. I think these could be addressed fairly quickly, so I'm putting the article on hold for up to a week. I'll be back then (or earlier, if I'm notified on my talk page) to further evaluate the article. Shimeru 03:14, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There are several "citation needed" tags. Citations need to be provided before the article can meet GA standards.
 * There's a lack of citations in general -- five is not enough for an article of this size. I would encourage finding further sources; English sources would be ideal, but of course Japanese sources are also acceptable.  Some non-web references would be nice, though not absolutely necessary; were the games or manga/anime reviewed, perhaps?
 * More along the same lines: Possibly-controversial or surprising assertions such as "This chapter also caused some controversy because of its mention of the Marco Polo Bridge Incident." should be cited.
 * Prose could use some general polishing. Nothing too egregious, but the occasional sentences like the following are jarring: "While she does not speak a lot, she tends to mutter cute words such as mi~ and nipa~ which makes Rena scream out about how cute she acts and how she wants to take her home. She also tends to end all her sentences with ~desu. Interestingly, she occasionally shows a secondary personality whose manner of speech is much more advanced than what her age would suggest."
 * On a similar note, be careful with speculation. If the speculation comes from a source, that's okay, but it needs to be cited.  If the speculation doesn't come from a source, it's not okay -- Wikipedia cannot speculate.  Examples include statements like "She also seems to have clairvoyant ability." (according to whom?) and "When she needs a weapon, she uses a special cleaver that she must have found at the trash heap." (the use of the cleaver is not speculation, but "must have found at the trash heap" is).
 * Some of the supporting characters have very little information (and a few nothing at all beyond a name). If these characters are significant to the story of the game (or anime or manga), please expand on them a little.  If they're not terribly significant, it might be better to simply remove them.  Lists are to some extent unavoidable in an article like this one, but it's important to maximize the prose.
 * The story arc section is likewise brief and "listy." Some expansion would seem to be warranted.
 * The "Drama CDs" subsection is a list. Please add some additional explanation.  For instance, what events does each CD cover?  Do they differ from the game or manga storylines of the same names?
 * The anime section has a main article, and so is okay. However, I'm not sure of the value of the table -- is the initial air date on each of these stations important?  I think it might be better to state in prose the earliest air date and station, and perhaps mention the other stations it aired on.  This would not prevent the article from reaching GA, but it's an aesthetic issue -- the table looks clumsy.
 * I don't think it's really necessary to have an image of each manga cover -- it looks a bit gallery-like. Again, not something I'd fail the article over, just an aesthetics-related thought.


 * Adding on to that, I think there should be a section on the reception of the game/manga/anime. _dk 01:26, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I attempted a lot of prose cleanup, as well as making the summaries of the characters and story arcs slightly more useful. However, more information can't be provided on some of the supporting characters without spoilers. Maybe those should be removed. -Seventh Holy Scripture 07:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That would be an option. Another would be to use spoiler tags. Shimeru 09:56, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Mmm, I removed some of the useless manga side characters listed that had no description. It looks like Seventh removed some other unimportant ones, so we should be good there.  I added some general references about the series in the first section; we should be approaching a decent number of them now.  I also cleaned up some grammar... There's still a lot of sections that could probably be worded better, though, imo.  Also, I moved the list of air times to the anime episode page - it seems to be more appropriate for that page.  Moogy   ( talk )  23:51, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yay, no more tags!  Moogy   ( talk )  02:26, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It's looking pretty good. You and Seventh have done some nice work on it.  Don't worry if you need more time for further cleanup; I'm more than willing to extend the hold if need be, since the article's clearly being worked on. Shimeru 02:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The GA has been on hold for a while now. Is it to be relisted or is the nom going to be dropped for now?--Squilibob 06:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Just over a week, yes. I note a new "fact needed" tag has appeared (regarding the cicada-noise onomotopoeia).  Aside from that, it's looking in good shape.  Is your rewrite substantially finished, Moogy? Shimeru 06:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Mm, there probably aren't any real sources for the cicada noise thing other than the games themselves... That'd only be citable if somebody could find a reference to it in-game. I think my edits are pretty much finished, as long as nobody adds more stuff to the article.   Moogy   ( talk )  16:46, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've removed it for now. -Seventh Holy Scripture 16:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * All right, thanks. I think the issues have been adequately addressed, so I'm promoting it to Good Article.  In terms of further improvement, I would look mostly at converting some of the list-like formatting to prose (although the expansion that's already been done has helped quite a lot), double-checking the Manual of Style to make sure everything fits (I don't see anything too out of place, though), and hunting down more references to further support the article.  Checking out the Featured Article criteria might be helpful.  If you're interested in taking this to FA status, I'd recommend a Peer Review at this point, or a review by an appropriate WikiProject.  Congratulations, and thanks for the hard work. Shimeru 21:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think it'd be really awesome if this series got a FA-class article, so I'll keep working on it when I get the chance, I suppose.  Moogy   ( talk )  23:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Character images
I didn't think the previous character images looked that good, so decided to be bold and replaced them with images from the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Matsuri website. They may be a little shakier on fair use grounds, though, since I altered them. -Seventh Holy Scripture 04:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I like them. They look very good. --Squilibob 05:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Propose move of Higurashi characters into separate wiki
This wikipedia is getting very cluttered. Perhaps it might be a good idea to create a separate page for Higurashi characters? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kj1980 (talk • contribs).
 * I would definately support this action. If this is done though, there should be a paragraph written to describe the main characters and some of the supporting characters.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 22:10, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright, I just did it.-- (  十八  |   talk  ) 22:58, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Manga section needs major cleanup
We have the explanation of manga side-stories, light novels on the main page, whereas no direct comment on the base mangas which are in their respective game arcs. This is very difficult and unorganized. Propose manga to have its own section or have its own respective wiki, especially since some manga titles are exclusive to the manga/light novel. Kj1980 07:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kj1980 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 14 January 2007 (UTC).

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Matsuri [Limited Edition]
What's special about the limited edition version? I can't seem to find information on this anywhere.--SeizureDog 14:32, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The standard bonus materials are a book, a soundtrack CD and postcards and the preorder bonus is a pen shaped like Satoshi's bat. Depending on which store you buy from, you can get additional preorder bonuses like posters, a Rena punching bag, a Rika mug, etc. Pictures of some of the goodies are here: http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/higurashi_matsuri/tokuten.html
 * The game itself should be identical. -Seventh Holy Scripture 14:52, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * M'kay, thanks for that. Should we work that information into the article?--SeizureDog 04:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

About 罰恋し編
I've seen most sites list the pronunciation as Batsukoishi-hen, whereas someone on wikipedia lists it as Bachikoishi-hen. A quick check in the Nelson kanji dictionary shows that the pronunciation "bachi" means "divine punishment, retribution"; "the pronunciation "batsu" means "punishment, penalty". Seeing as the second pronunciation and meaning fit better, and that in the anime "punishment games" are called "batsugeemu", I'm changing 罰恋し編 to reflect the proper pronunciation. Whoever reverted it in the first place, please do not do so now, or explain your reasons for doing so. ...which you have not done. I've reverted it again, and if you try to change it again, at least try to explain your reason why. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.225.152.61 (talk) 22:44, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Special DVD
For the special DVD, I was wondering how exactly are they going to know you've purchased all of the DVDs and send you the special? Maybe there's some coupon in each DVD which you'd collect that you'd then mail out to a certain address? I looked at the website but couldn't exactly find the relevant information. --Remy Suen 15:09, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Bingo. Each box contains something you can cut out and mail it. Similar to the .Hack special offers.69.108.26.204 06:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Characters section
All right, here we discuss recent edits to the characters section. Here are my points:
 * 1) There is already a separate characters article at List of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni characters so further information done to this page makes no sense.
 * 2) The images used don't even have licensing tags on them and will be deleted anyway in a week; plus they're pics of the anime version, and since the source is from the game, the images should thus be from the game if anything.
 * 3) Adding all those images also is too much for this article, and one of the reasons why the characters section was split off was to reduce the amount of multiple images in close proximity to each other, while it also had to do with the section being rather long and obstructive.
 * 4) Since the characters section was split off, we're trying to be concise here and try to cover all the bases. Since there is a vast amount of characters, the main characters are explained with a bit about the major supporting characters and even some that don't appear in the main Higurashi no Naku Koro ni series.

In the end, I'm sure the majority of editors will agree with me on these points. -- (  十   八  ) 03:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This one does; I was reluctant to revert his edits until I saw where he was going with them, but changes of this magnitude are definitely something that should be talked over, and the points you outline are solid. Also, note that we would like to avoid spoilers within the main article if possible. Those can be put on the character list and the story-arc pages, which have spoiler warnings. -Seventh Holy Scripture 04:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

PS2 version
Who came up with these uncofirmed ideas of the new chapters anyway?24.83.205.212 20:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you should check out the official site. Assuming, of course, you know Japanese.  All of the info is on there.  Moogy   ( talk )  23:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you would be so kind to tell me where in the offical site that it actually listed "Tsukiotoshi-hen as an additional Answer arc and the solution to Taraimawashi-hen". Let me remind you that in the newest promotion trailer, Tsukiotoshi-hen is NOT listed as an answer arc, let alone being the solution to Taraimawashi-hen.
 * http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/higurashi_matsuri/game.html - observe how Tsukiotoshi-hen is in the second column following Taraimawashi-hen. -Seventh Holy Scripture 05:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The chapters on the right are not the answer chapters for the ones on the left. Also, Miotsukushi-hen is on the left, so not all the chapters listed on the right are all answer arcs.  You can see that it's actually grouped into top and bottom section.  Top section has the original seven chapters (with Matsuribayashi-hen cut out), and bottom 3 are the new ones.  If you go to this page, http://www.alchemist-net.co.jp/products/higurashi_matsuri/story.html, you will see that the four answer chapters does not have the story synopsis revealed, with obvious reasons.  Furthurmore, Taraimawashi-hen is actually just an anomoly version of Watanagashi/Meakashi-hen, where Tsukiotoshi is an extreme version of Tatarigoroshi/Minagoroshi-hen.  24.83.205.212 03:37, 25 February 2007 (UTC)