Talk:Hilary Rosen/Archive 3

A proposed update to this article, and why
Hello, all. Over the last few months, I've been working on a proposed new draft for this article to expand on information about Hilary Rosen's life and career, and address some issues in the current article. Before I go into detail here, first a disclosure: I am working on behalf of Ms. Rosen through her firm SKDKnickerbocker as part of my work at Beutler Ink. As always, I will not edit this article directly and am seeking others' input and assistance in making the changes if they are reasonable.

My goals in preparing a new draft are to bring it up-to-date, improve sourcing, address some content gaps, ensure details included are given due weight and add a new infobox image. As some of my suggested changes involve shifting information between sections and establishing new section headings, I've placed a full draft into my user space—Hilary Rosen (new proposed draft)—to make it easier for editors to see the whole picture. (In one can see all the changes proposed vs. the current article version.) As an overview, the key issues that I've addressed in the full article draft include:


 * In the current version of the article, the Registered lobbyist for the recording industry section is almost entirely unsourced. I've provided citations for information and added more detail on this role.
 * The mention of BP consulting is currently given undue weight, as little reporting about Rosen's actual consulting work exists. Most sources concern her parting ways with Huffington Post when she joined the Brunswick Group (which was working for BP at the time).
 * Likewise, Rosen's comments about Ann Romney are also given more space within the article than is surely necessary. While criticism received for the comments should be noted, it was a short-lived media story in the 2012 election. The Kimmel quote is especially unnecessary as is there being a whole separate section heading just for this one event.
 * There is some discussion within the article (and on this discussion page) about whether or not Rosen is a lobbyist, based on critical press coverage. Even the exacting section title Registered lobbyist... is some indication of the past disagreement. After four years' time, I think there is enough distance to reconsider this section. Here's how I've approached it:
 * As being a lobbyist has a specific legal connotation, for clarity, I've noted within the draft when and for whom Rosen acted as a lobbyist.
 * I've kept the criticism of Rosen and her firm as "unofficial" lobbyists, placing this into context and removing the allegation from the section heading.
 * Finally, little to no information is included about her work for LGBT causes and recognition, so I have added some details from third-party sourcing.

Of course, I realize that a substantial change from one version of an article to another is probably too much to do all at once. A sturdier consensus is probably arrived at through a section-by-section consideration, and I will do just that beginning in the sub-section below this one. That said, if you find anything in my draft that strikes you as an obvious improvement over the current version, please feel free to make such changes. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:41, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Early life and education
See above for my COI declaration, pledge to make no direct edits, and overall perspective on the current state of this article. I'd like to suggest beginning with something simple, like Early life and education. In the current article, is two short sentences, one of which is unsourced. In the version of this section in my draft, there is more information included, all of which is RS-sourced. Below this you'll find the text as it would appear after making the change, followed by the markup itself:

If you agree this is an improvement, I hope you'll consider making the change and marking this request as complete. Of course I'm also willing to answer any questions as needed. Best, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:41, 30 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I've made this edit. Neutralitytalk 11:37, 18 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much, I appreciate it. (I've now marked the request as complete.) This is only the first of several updates I'd like to propose, as explained in my first note on the page, so I'll be back in a day or two with a concise explanation of the next section I have in mind. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 17:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Career
The next sections following Early life and career are Registered lobbyist for the recording industry and its sub-section Departure from the RIAA. These are, in my estimation, clunkily-named, under-sourced, and not terribly informative. Improving on this requires thinking a bit about the rest of the article, which currently has several top-level headings related to her various career roles. The best outcome eventually would be collecting these under a top-level heading called Career (as can be seen in my proposed draft) and the first sub-heading should simply be called Recording Industry Association of America. To start on that, I'd like to propose replacing the existing two sections with the two you can find in the collapsed boxes below. Benefits of making this update include:


 * Adding a short paragraph about her early career, including some information not now in the current entry at all;
 * Adding citations to verify information, since at present the second, third and fourth paragraphs are entirely unsourced;
 * Clarifying when in fact she was a registered lobbyist, as this was only the case during the latter part of her tenure;
 * Removing two arbitrary quotes from Rosen in the current version that aren't especially encyclopedic;
 * Removing the details about her former partner (Birch) and their children, which is more appropriate to the Personal life section, and already exists there in part;
 * Removing the unnecessary sub-heading about her departure, so now it's all one section.

Overall, I believe the draft I present below is more informative, appropriately detailed, neutral, and addresses both the successes and challenges she had during her time with the organization. You can find my specific proposal here:

{{hidden|header=Markup|content= ==Career== In 1979, Rosen began working as a legislative assistant in the Washington, D.C. office of Governor Brendan Byrne (D-NJ), who was a friend of Rosen's mother. She also worked for Senator Bill Bradley (D-NJ) early in her career. Rosen worked for the lobbying firm Liz Robbins Associates in the 1980s.

Recording Industry Association of America
In 1987, at the age of 28, Rosen joined the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), the trade organization that represents the American recording industry, as its first government relations director. In 1989, she and her colleague Jay Berman updated the Parental Advisory label and launched its public awareness campaign. In 1992, she took a brief leave from the RIAA to serve as Senator Dianne Feinstein's (D-CA) transition director and set up the California Democratic Party's office in Washington, D.C.

In 1995, Rosen supported artists' rights when Bob Dole (R-K.S.), then Senate Majority Leader, criticized Time Warner and said that rap lyrics promoted violence and were degrading to women. She became the organization's president and chief operating officer in May 1996, leading the organization during a tumultuous time for the music industry. Rosen was a strong supporter of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which became law in 1998, to prohibit the creation of technologies used to get around copyright protections. Rosen was promoted to the role of chief executive officer (CEO) in 1998. In 2000, the American musical recording company A&M Records along with several others, through the RIAA, sued Napster (A&M Records, Inc. v. Napster, Inc.) on grounds of contributory and copyright infringement under the DMCA. Rosen presided over the lawsuit, which caused the pioneering peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing Internet service to shut down. As the face of the RIAA, she was vilified by proponents of free file sharing, and even traveled with security at one point because she was receiving death threats. In 2002, she was promoted from president and CEO to chairwoman and CEO. The RIAA later sided with Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer, who led a group of entertainment companies who filed a lawsuit against Grokster and Streamcast (maker of Morpheus) for inducing copyright infringement. In MGM Studios, Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd. (2005), the Supreme Court ruled unanimously in favor of the entertainment-industry plaintiffs, a decision Rosen supported publicly.

As a registered lobbyist from 1999 to 2003, Rosen influenced the decisions made by Congress on behalf of nearly 350 companies and thousands of artists represented by the RIAA. During her tenure, she supported efforts for digital copyright protection, including technology that prevented CDs from being copied, and established the RIAA Diamond certification, which recognizes albums that have shipped more than 10 million copies. Rosen said the award, which was named as such because "diamonds are valuable [and] no two are alike", represented "a quantum leap" for the music industry and an expansion of the national music market. She also encouraged partnerships between the recording industry and online music businesses, and consulted on the launch of digital music services such as Apple Inc.'s iTunes Store. Rosen was recognized for advancing the industry's political efforts and appeared on lists of influential leaders, including Entertainment Weekly "Annual Power List" and National Journal "Washington's Powerful Insiders". She was included in The Hollywood Reporter list of the most powerful women in entertainment in 1998, 2000 (number 10), 2002 (number 17), and 2003 (number 10).

In June 2003, after working for the organization for seventeen years, Rosen resigned to spend more time with her family. Following her resignation, she reportedly "questioned the value of lawsuits against individual downloaders" said she had attempted to "push the industry to evolve". In 2007, she said, "I won't be a George Tenet here, but it's pretty well known that I was impatient with the pace of the industry's embrace of online distribution of music. There's no substitute for speed when times are dire. The record companies had valid reasons for their caution, but that caution let the situation get out of hand." |headerstyle=background:#ccccff}}

(Note: In the above reflist and markup, you will see that the references "Wired", "Holson2001", and "Politico" are not defined. However, they are already defined in the current article, so the reference information will display correctly if the above markup is added as shown.)

Thanks for your consideration, and if you think this is an improvement I hope you'll consider moving it into the article. If you have any questions or concerns, I'm available to discuss. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:14, 19 July 2016 (UTC)


 * I agree that the suggested edit is an improvement, so I am making the edit. As always, I take full responsibility for any edits I make, no matter who suggested them. Disclosure: I have absolutely no connection with Hilary Rosen, the RIAA, or an related persons or organizations. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:05, 15 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your time and consideration, Guy. I've marked this request closed, and I will have a next one to post very soon. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 12:49, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Other career roles
Following the updated Early life and Career sections I'd like to propose an update to Communications consultant and pundit and its sub-sections  Consultant to British Petroleum (BP), Cable news pundit, and Consultant and alleged lobbyist. Currently, the section's first sentence is about her early career, which is addressed earlier in the article. Then her work at Brunswick Group and SKDKnickerbocker is briefly mentioned, followed by a 2-sentence subsection dedicated to BP. I believe this information would best be served by moving it into new sub-sections under the Career heading, condensed to two sub-headings: Media roles and Communications consultant, as can be seen in my full draft and below. The new version retains mentions of critical coverage, such as her Ann Romney comments and debated lobbying activity, but in a less sensational manner than exists now. It also provides information about her work with SKDKnickerbocker, which does not currently exist. I've eliminated the In popular culture subsection which is, in my opinion, unnecessary and given undue weight. I'm holding out some information for a sub-section on her LGBT advocacy work, which will come next. Here's what I propose for the first section:

And then immediately following it should be:

(Note: In the above reflist and markup, you will see a few references that are undefined. However, they are already defined in the current article, so the reference information will display correctly if the above markup is added as shown.)

Thanks again for your consideration. If reviewers think this is an improvement of the current content, I hope you'll move it into the article, and of course I am happy to discuss and questions or concerns. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 16:33, 18 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Just implemented these edits, which look like an overall improvement to me. A reference error is appearing, though. The reference named "advocate" is showing up as undefined. Champaign Supernova (talk) 16:38, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your assistance. The reference error is my mistake. The source is actually defined in the proposed draft's LGBT advocacy and other roles section, and I failed to realize that it would be undefined here, with Media roles posted before LGBT advocacy. After you made the update, it seems a bot tried to rescue the orphaned reference, but did so incorrectly. The markup for the "Advocate" source should be:  Apologies—would you mind making that update?


 * Alternatively, if you are feeling particularly generous, this could be solved by reverting the bot and then implementing the LGBT advocacy and other roles and Personal life sections in their entirety. Copying over the entire LGBT advocacy section would take care of defining the "Advocate" reference, but the bot would still need to be reverted for it to work properly.


 * If you're game, a brief explainer on these sections: LGBT advocacy and other roles expands on her work as an LGBT advocate, her roles with the Human Rights Campaign, and involvement in LGBT legislation, as well as other roles that are more on the periphery of her career. The proposed Personal life section expands on her relationship with Birch, her residence, and her involvement in politics. I've provided text renderings and markup below:


 * This would then be followed by:


 * If you prefer to go the simple route (or if you're busy with other things), I'd be happy to create a new section heading with a separate "Edit request" tag for help from another reviewing editor. Either way, thanks for your consideration, and for assisting with the Media roles edit request. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 20:10, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks again for your assistance. I will go ahead and submit a new edit request with slightly altered markup in the LGBT advocacy and other roles section to accommodate the updated inline citation. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 23:24, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

LGBT advocacy and other roles and Personal life
I am back with another request to expand and update the article, based on this proposed draft. The LGBT advocacy and other roles section expands on her work as an LGBT advocate, her roles with the Human Rights Campaign, and involvement in LGBT legislation, as well as other roles that are more on the periphery of her career. This is all new information, not previously included in her Wikipedia biography, and highly relevant to her public career. The proposed Personal life section expands on her relationship with Birch, her residence, and her involvement in politics. I've provided text renderings and markup below:


 * This should be immediately followed by:

For anyone who may be following along, this markup is the same proposed in the section immediately above this one, but without the "Advocate" reference definition since the source is now defined in the article's Communications consultant section. Thanks for your consideration, and I'm happy to address any questions or concerns. I will be traveling from August 26 to September 5 so if you have questions, I will take them up on my return. Thanks, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 23:30, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Last request for this article
I'm back with a final request to update the article, based on this proposed draft. Following implementation of the above edit requests, it seems appropriate to now update the article's infobox and lead. I propose the following, which includes an updated image for the infobox, courtesy of SKDKnickerbocker:

You'll notice the draft also proposes the "See also" link to List of George Washington University people and some additional categories. I've collapse markup for the categories below, for easier copying and pasting:

Is there an editor who is willing to implement the proposed infobox, lead, see also section, and categories? I am more than happy to answer any questions or respond to any concerns. Thanks for your consideration. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk · COI) 20:33, 26 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I have added the suggested categories. I have not yet reviewed the other parts of the requested edit. I'll leave that for another editor (or circle back to it later). Neutralitytalk 21:35, 29 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for adding the categories, Neutrality. Since you have opened up the possibility of another editor completing the requested edit, I am here pinging Guy Macon and Champaign Supernova, who have both also responded to requests here, to take a look. The edits proposed above are my final suggestions for this entry. Please let me know if you have any questions at all. Cheers, WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 15:45, 3 October 2016 (UTC)


 * I am reviewing your last request. Geraldshields11 (talk) 03:02, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


 * OK, thanks. If you have any questions along the way, let me know. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 04:51, 19 October 2016 (UTC)


 * All done here! Thanks very much to everyone who reviewed a draft and helped us get here. I think this article is a much better resource now, and I'm glad this worked out so well. WWB Too (Talk &middot; COI) 22:59, 24 October 2016 (UTC)