Talk:Hillcrest, San Diego

Untitled
Might want to consider removing Be sure to visit Bread & Cie for the best bread this side of the puddle because it promotes a business.

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I'm sorry, but this is a pretty poor article. Instead of the cut-and-pasted timeline, how about more details on the community&mdash;it's history, geography, people, etc. Dananderson 07:54, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've tried to address both of the issues raised above. The new version has no mention of Bread & Cie. The timeline has been shortened and made more relevant. And I have devoted more space to a description of all aspects of Hillcrest. (April 1, 2006)


 * The current version still sounds like an ad or a travel brochure. I'll go ahead and wikify it.--Chicbicyclist 00:18, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

It also reads like a brochure for the gay rights activists of San Diego. I don't really see how "significant events" for gay, lesbian and trans-genders is relevant to an article about this neighborhood. I also dont see how the opening of a pedestrian bridge or a book fair qualify as significant events for the gay community.


 * Umm, the neighborhood is the center of gay activities in the city. Hillcrest is largely about LGBTs for the most part. It won't be "Hillcrest" without them. As for the brige and other stuff, I somewhat agree with you.--Chicbicyclist 19:31, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Too rosy a picture!
All these SoCal entries paint such a sugar coated picture. No crime, no homelessness, no poverty or unemployment. Andrew Cunanan never existed. Judging from these entries, there's a rainbow in the sky all the time! Must be nice to live in such a sunny Utopia! --24.249.108.133 22:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree about Cunanan. When I have time I'm going to write him in. El Ingles 20:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:El Cerrito, San Diego, California which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 06:47, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Tolerance?
An editor keeps changing the opening sentence "Hillcrest is known for its tolerance, diversity" etc. so as to read "its tolerance toward the LGBT community, diversity" etc. I reverted that change once and I still don't think it is appropriate, but I don't want to get into an edit war so let's discuss it here. To me it is very misleading to describe Hillcrest as being "tolerant" of the LGBT community; Hillcrest does not merely "tolerate" the LGBT community, Hillcrest IS the LGBT community, as is made clear later in the paragraph where it says "it has a large and active lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community." I don't know why the other editor, User:76.192.162.110, insists on saying "tolerance toward the LBBT community" because he/she doesn't provide edit summaries. I'd like them to come here and discuss it and reach consensus if possible. --MelanieN (talk) 00:46, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Parking shortage
The article states, "Lack of parking is a major problem in the Hillcrest area." But one could also truthfully state that underpriced parking rates are the problem, because a shortage occurs "when the price of an item is set below the equilibrium rate determined by supply and demand."

So then the question becomes, how is the difficulty of finding a convenient parking space a problem? Does it hurt the economy? Does it create traffic congestion? Does it inconvenience motorists? The article doesn't say.

On the other hand, the economically optimal number of parking spaces is the number where the cost of building another one equals the revenue from building it. The article admits that the retailers could not justify the cost of a parking garage; therefore, MR<MC and therefore Hillcrest already has the economically optimal or more than the optimal number of parking spaces. Adding more would only hurt the economy.

Because Hillcrest already has the economically optimal number of parking spaces (if not more), I dispute the claim that lack of parking is a problem. Lack of convenient, available parking spaces during peak periods may cause problems, but that's a lot of qualifiers. Should the statement be changed? --Traal (talk) 20:12, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * So I gather you don't dispute that there is a parking shortage; you just dispute that the parking shortage is a problem. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, we could change the first sentence to read "there is a shortage of parking in the Hillcrest area," which I don't think anyone would dispute. --MelanieN (talk) 23:53, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Anecdotal evidence suggests that there are parking lots and garages in Hillcrest that always seem to have spaces available, so "shortage" may not be the right word. How about "visitors often have trouble finding parking in the Hillcrest area"? --Traal (talk) 00:21, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I think we need to go with what Reliable Sources say, rather than with our interpretation of anecdotal evidence or our analysis of the economics of parking spaces. My impression is that "parking shortage" is the common phrase in Reliable Source articles about the area. Let's evaluate that, shall we? BTW thank you for calling my attention to this article; I've been neglecting it. It was seriously out of date with regard to the Uptown Partnership/Uptown Community Parking District; I have now updated it as well as improving the way some of the references were cited.--MelanieN (talk) 00:28, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

OK, here is the relevant information from the three most relevant sources in the article. --MelanieN (talk) 00:42, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The Uptown News article says "District Three Councilmember Todd Gloria recently said at a press conference one of the biggest complaints he gets from the community is about parking."
 * The UT "Partnership blasted over parking" article cites a "worsening parking situation," as well as the projected "shortage" numbers, which you disputed.
 * The UT "Parking in Hillcrest?" article says the area is "perpetually short of parking."


 * I don't doubt that Gloria would get a lot of complaints about parking. So maybe something like, "One of the biggest complaints voiced by the Hillcrest community is about parking." --Traal (talk) 04:47, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Let's back up. The article's current statement is "Lack of parking is a major problem in the Hillcrest area". That it is a problem seems to be pretty well supported by all the shouting and complaining about it, as well as the creation of quasi-governmental agencies tasked with creating more parking. But you tagged it as "dubious". I thought you were objecting to the word "problem", which could be considered POV. So I suggested "There is a shortage of parking in the HIllcrest area." That there is a shortage seems to be well supported by Reliable Sources, as cited above (two of the three sources actually used the word "short" or "shortage"). But now you seem to be objecting to the word "shortage", despite its repeated use by Reliable Sources. I don't understand why you are so determined to dance around the subject rather than making a simple statement of (what appears to be) fact. Is your objection that you don't think there is an actual shortage (based on an anecdotal comment by an anonymous person in a discussion thread on a blog where everyone else is saying that there IS a shortage), or that there is a shortage but it isn't a problem, or what? Let me understand what it is about this sentence that you are trying to fix. --MelanieN (talk) 15:40, 5 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Because Uptown Partnership voted against building a parking garage, evidently they felt that there's no lack of parking or that it isn't enough of a problem to justify adding more parking. However, the complaints about parking show that parking is a concern, so "parking is a major concern in the Hillcrest area" would be a true statement supported by the cited sources. --Traal (talk) 19:03, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I guess I could go with that wording. I'll add it and delete the "dubious" tag. But just for the record, the Uptown Partnership felt no such thing. That interpretation is dead wrong. Their whole purpose in life, the reason the parking district was created, was to improve the parking situation (hence the name). After they realized they couldn't afford a parking garage, they turned their attention to trying to find additional on-street parking. And the reason the Uptown Partnership finally lost public favor and got dissolved was their failure to create more parking. --MelanieN (talk) 21:34, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Parking
Someone just deleted the entire "parking" section - including 10 Reliable Source references - because they didn't think it belongs in an encyclopedia. Considering the amount of previous discussion on this topic, and the heavy coverage this subject gets from independent sources, I don't think deleting it is acceptable. However, I agree that the section was too long and detailed. I will work on a more concise version which I will then put back in the article. --MelanieN (talk) 23:12, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I trimmed it by about half, updated it, and re-added it. --MelanieN (talk) 23:56, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

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