Talk:Himura Kenshin/Archive 1

Cleanup
whoever cleaned up my old Amakakeru Ryū no Hirameki details.... thank you very much. I'll pay keener attention to spelling and such in the future. --Faucett 00:59, 6 July 2006 (UTC) There was a lot missing about the biography, I felt, so I added/changed a few things here or there roughly a week ago. -Dream Rurouni

Pictures?
I have noticed that there is a lot of pictures, some screen shots some are not. Does http://www.animegalleries.net allow people to just take there pictures? Alus 04:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, is it allowable to submit images with a visible copyright, e.g. "© 2006 Watsuki/Shueisha"? -dano, may 23, 1:40a Enishi Hair It's DR again, I was the one who added a lot to the Ishin Shishi/Tomoe days of Kenshin. I noticed that someone mentioned enish "bleached" his hair. This (to the best of my knowledge) is never doucumented nor said, I believe the manga implies his nerves caused his hair to age prematurely/turn white, not bleached.

Death in OVA
Does anyone think that the disease that him and Kamiya Kaoru had was lupus? It sounds and looks similar but I am not sure. Alus 04:05, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

There is no confirmation at all as to what disease Kenshin and Kaoru really "shared". So, just like the ending itself, it is entirely up to the reader what disease killed Ken-Kao, but that would be the closest guess I could think of.


 * As the matter was never actually addressed within the OVA, we can unfortunately never be entirely sure of what disease they died from. While I always assumed that they simply died of a form of leporsy, the disease that you mentioned could fit as well, I suppose. RPH - aka - Shogun 22:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The date of Kenshin's death is 1895, not 1894. He leaves Tokyo in 1893 (as listed in the QVA) and returns in 1895 (after the wars is over. ) Nlf7 09:40, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I removed mention of this from the introduction, as it is a spoiler.

Umbrella Style
What is actually known about the style of the Umbrella that Kenshin uses against the circus people? Symmetric Chaos 13:21, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Pretty much nothing as it was entirely the brainchild of the filler staff. I don't think Watsuki even had any imput in the matter. RPH - aka - Shogun 22:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I thought that the disease sounded like syphilis. It is an STD obviously, and they get the red rash known to be a symptom of the STD. However I don't know anything about the history of syphilis, if the disease even existed in Japan back then, or how Kenshin would have gotten it. He obviously didn't get it from Karou, the only other woman we know he was with was Tomoe, and I think that syphilis is a faster acting disease than that. Maybe he got it from blood? 134.129.56.220 21:30, 13 February 2007 (UTC)silverwolf


 * wrong section, and it'd be original research anyway so theres no reason to dwell on what disease/how he got it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NeilHynes (talk • contribs) 18:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

Which ending is more universally accepted?
What ending do most Kensin fans go with, the OVA ending where he and Kaoru die or the manga ending where they simply settle down and raise Kenji together with no more wandering, diseases or death?

As a purist, I go with the manga ending. However, I can understand those who like emo and angst preferring the darker OVA ending.

Jinchuu Crusader 06:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Sango. The fact that the OVA goes against the established canon of the manga discredits it in my book (and most of the other fans that I know).  Don't get me wrong, the OVA ending was awesome (as was the rest of it), but I prefer to consider it as an alternate ending at most. RPH - aka - Shogun 22:13, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, not to mention they somehow made the OVA's animation look worse than the anime! -Iopq 12:55, 14 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I hope you're talking about Reflections. Personally Trust and Betrayal looked better than the anime, although I loved the series style, I just thought Trust and Betrayal was more clean looking and had more of a serious tone; which is appropriate considering they had more of a serious setting than the series. 206.229.18.66 18:50, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The way the article is written makes it seem like the OVA ending is a sequel to the manga ending, and not an alternate take of the events. 190.37.152.91


 * Although it wasn't written by Watsuki, the OVA ending was intended to be a sequel to the manga ending (not an alternate take of the events.) Seven 01:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Uhh, that's crap. Look at the way it differs in regards to the details of the Enishi and Jin-E fights. It's definitely an "alternate" ending, maybe even taking place in an alternate universe entirely.--24.22.147.202 08:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That's the official version. (I'm no fan of the OVA, but I've checked the official website and read/seen all the interviews.) Please note that encyclopedic content must be verifiable by reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy (see Verifiability). Our hands are tied!


 * As for the details of the Enishi and Jin-E fights, please keep in mind that there are also differences between the manga Tokyo Arc/Kyoto Arc and the anime Tokyo Arc/Kyoto Arc. These differences aren't called "alternate". That's what happens when a book is made into a movie or a TV series. Seven 09:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

--- Also didnt the ova ending come out first, i remember an interview where the series creator mentioned how his ending would be different because he prefered happy endings. 209.244.31.47 00:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * No, the manga ending came out first. Seven 11:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The OVA isn't canonical since Watsuki himself stated that he wanted Kenshin to have a happy ending and that he wasn't involved with the plot(not to mention elements of the OVA contradict the events of manga, like Kenshin offering his life to save Kaoru, when in the manga, he rejected the notion of suicide or death in order to atone). Kenshin Kaden further resolved the manga's ending by stating they had picnics with their friends each year(again, conflicts with the OVA). I don't see how the original mangaka's work can superceded and deemed "official" by an adaption. Simply put, if it's not a work of the author, it isn't canon.

And yes, anime adaptions are alternate interpretations on the original, especially with the inclusion of filler and liberties that were taken once it was animated(like Ayame/Suzume, the the re-imaging of the Raijuuta mini-saga, the circus episodes, etc).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.242.96.251 (talk) 06:54, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Have it This Way!!!
In my opinion, Kenshin dying is someow good and not good. Please don't get me wrong, I would love to know that he wouldn't have died and that somehow on a day i don't expect there will be new episodes. On the other hand, Kenshin not dying makes him invinsible... and that - I suppose was one of the rerasons Kenshin faught Shishio Makoto for. Not making hm die in the w\end wiould let some shallow minded people more like warship kenshin as if he was something real and not just an anime character.

Maybe i took it somehow religious but i believe we have to consider that. I adore Kenshin OVA and so I do for the 95 episodes, but we have to be somehow logical. No one would have survived all these wounds, and the OVA ending was the most suitable in my opinion.

L.W   April, 4th, 2006


 * Erm, right. Well, Wikipedia is not a place discuss your feelings about the series. It is an encyclopedia. I can't see what you want changed or what you think needs to be fixed in the article itself. I think the article accurately displays what happens in the OVA, the anime, and the manga. --Trance 22:40, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're mistaking this for a forum, this is an encyclopedia that shows information objectively. Katsuhagi 21:44, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

kenshin sword style
what is the name of kenshin's sword style?--Geterdone 20:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have vol. 1 here and Sanosuke says "The Chōsū Revolutionary, Himura Battosai...whose way is the ancient sword-school of Hiten Mitsurugi-ryu." I can't really tell if the last word is supposed to have a hyphen or not but I hope that helps. Sasuke-kun  27  20:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * it does ,thanks Sasuke-kun27


 * Always glad to help when I can ^_^ - Sasuke-kun 27  17:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu, there should be two 'u's, or a flat accent over one 'u'. And there is no hyphen (sp?). Kishyotai 11:00, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

pic
we need to add a pic at the intro.--Kenshin -Himura 22:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I have a pic here, licensced and everything. We'd have to make it about 200-250px but other than that, its pretty good. Can we use this? Sasuk  e  -kun  27  01:15, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Awsome!--Kenshin -Himura 19:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Messages to an anonymous user
Please edit the article based on facts (not on personal interpretations.) For example, there's no indication that Kenshin becomes suicidal in hopes of 'joining' Kaoru and Kenshin and Kaoru never make a promise to never be apart again in the manga. Moreover, the following paragraph should've gone straight to this page:

"He has realized that the string of bad events throughout his life, being orphaned and sold into slavery, becoming a manslayer, Tomoe's death and his ten years of lonely wandering, had all led him to a happy ending with Kaoru, his supposed 'soul mate.' "

Don't get me wrong! I (more or less) agree with the above comments but they aren't based on facts according to the manga. Some people have different interpretations. Therefore, personal comments/interpretations/opinions should've been on this discussion page instead (and not on the article page.) Seven 05:53, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I've decided to delete part of your recent edit: "He and Chizuru, because of their similarity to Kenshin and Kaoru, strongly resemble the history of a great love repeating itself in the next generation. The final message seems overall to be bittersweet, with Kaoru and Kenshin's life over, but a new generation growing up in a peaceful world free of bloodshed - exactly the vision he had fought for - and killed for - so many years ago."

Sasuke-kun27, I was following Commander Keane's advice:


 * "Make the accurate change with a good edit summary. If they revert, drop a note on their talk page and discuss on the article's talk page. "

I made the accurate change with a summary on Sep 21 2006 and they reverted on Sep 22 2006. Therefore, I made the corrections again on Sep 22 2006 and left messages here. Seven 23:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Again, I've deleted your edit. Where does the following quote come from??? It isn't from the (original) script!

I would live my life, the rest of my life, only for you, just to make you happy, because that is what you truly deserve.- ''Quoted directly from the Seisouhen OVA, in the scene where Kaoru asks him to join her family- from anonymous user. PS: It was edited into the Seisouhen Ova section of the page. Therefore, it's a fact, maybe not according to the Manga, but to the OVA''


 * You've quoted it wrong! Quoted directly from the Seisouhen OVA:


 * Karou; "I wouldn't say to you to live only for me. I know your hands, those can create more smiles among more people. Your life doesn't exist only for compensation...I think your life exists in order to create more happiness from now on. So, please make my dram come true."


 * Kenshin: "Anything I can do to make you happy... If I can make you smile. " Seven 20:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I quoted from the english dubbed version. Before Kenshin talked about wandering japan and seeing that Samurai's mother, he said those words i quoted. Yours may have been from the Japanese language version. I just watched the proposal over again (in English) and he said those words. It's from the director's cut version. Maybe they're different, too...


 * Please note that I've stated that "it isn't from the (original) script!" (Yes, I've got the director's cut version.) The difference between the subtitles (close enough to the original script) and the English dubbed version is when Kenshin says Anything I can do to make you happy, the English dubbed version says "I'll do anything for you!" (So, please watch the OVA again.)


 * By the way, the English dubbed version is beyond terrible! In Tsuiokuhen's case, they made way too many mistakes in the historical background session (on one occasion they spelt "Kyoto" as "Tokyo,") not to mention the terrible English dub.


 * Let me give you a few examples:


 * In the scene where Kenshin says to Tomoe I will protect you, make sure that you are happy, the English dubbed version says "Would you marry me, really?"


 * In the scene where Kenshin says to Katsura I will lend you my sword to your cause, Tomoe saved my life. I think she knew I would have to fight once more, I believe that,  the English dubbed version says "I'll lend you my skills.  Tomoe was destoyed by the Shogunate.  They used her emotions to control her. I will make them pay for that."


 * (If we edited the articles according to the english dubbed version, it would be a total disaster!) Seven 04:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Kenshin and Kaoru marry around two years after they first met? according to what? They met in early 1878 and Kenji looks about two or three in Summer 1882. In any case, since it's not stated in the manga, it's not a fact. Seven 03:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Move
Requested move: Himura Kenshin to Kenshin Himura.--Kenshin -Himura 20:14, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I oppose because we'd have to do that for every other Rurouni Kenshin character. Sasuk  e  -kun  27  20:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll do it.--Kenshin -Himura 20:21, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Let's wait for some more opinions and see where it goes from there. Sasuk  e  -kun  27  20:23, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * anyone second me or sasuke?--Kenshin -Himura 20:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Please.....anyone anyone at all?--Kenshin -Himura 20:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I second Kenshin -Himura.--Geterdone 20:28, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I third him/her.--Yoyo-man 20:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I oppose the move. Though they are fictional characters, they are also pre-Meiji characters, and policy dictates that people in this category be ordered as family name + given name. ~SnapperTo 23:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I also oppose it. Besides the fact that we would have to do all the characters in the same way, which would take way too long, any links to the article would be broken and god knows how many pages link to this one. That and I honestly don't see a good reason, they are Japanese characters and therefore follow Japanese conventions.Katsuhagi 11:04, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Also take note that all three of those users do virtually nothing other than comment on talk pages. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * What diffrence does that make?--Kenshin -Himura 13:08, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * You don't contribute anything, so what experience do you have in such matters? You just make random comments on talk pages and occasionally move pages against consensus. Go edit some articles and get a feel for the process. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Temporary Protection???
In the past month, an anonymous user's been editing the article (as well as a few other RK articles) not only with facts, but also with inaccurate info, "fan fic" and personal interpretations repeatedly. He/She has disregarding the policies and comments from other editors.

Moreover, on 25 October 2006, he/she changed 202.156.6.54's "i luv tomoe... she is sooooo cute and pretty!!!!!!!" to "i strongly dislike tomoe... she is sooooo dead and ugly!!!!!!!" on the Yukishiro Tomoe discussion page. (Whether 202.156.6.54's message was pointless or not, this anonymous user went too far.)

Since the page has been a recent target of persistent vandalism or/and persistent edits by this anonymous user, should we suggest the page be protected? Seven 00:28, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu Editing
I'm going to edit a few things about Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu;


 * Kuzu Ryuu Sen; in Kendo there are only three types of cuts, it's clearly stated in the manga that the cuts are based on Kenjutsu. Kendo is the something like art of fencing in a competition-based environment, while focusing on the swordsman spirit. Kenjutsu is the art of the sword that involves 'cutting', and eventually killing, the opponent. So, the intro to the technique is wrong.

-Note: I edited in the Kanji and a literal translation, but I'm not sure what format Wikipedia uses to signify literal translations, so I used italics and put it in parethensies. Help is required.
 * Editing in Kanji and a literal translation of Hiten Mitsurugi Ryuu.


 * Editing in Kenshin's mentioning the sword style was founded in the Sengoku period (Chapter 1)

That's all I've got for now. Kishyotai 11:05, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Meiji Restoration
Kenshin decided to get involved with the revolution in 1863 and served as an assassin from 1863-1864; the Meiji Emperor ascended the throne and took the name Emperor Meiji in 1867. There was no such thing as the Meiji Restoration until later and Kenshin didn't serve as an assassin at that time. Seven 20:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Takasugi Shinsaku and Katsura Kogoro were both leaders of the Chōshū clan. Seven 21:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The last 5 years of the Meiji Restoration could be in the 1880's. Seven 20:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Oro
Tell me, how can a lengthy article on Kenshin go without mentioning Oro or his other speech quirks once?--24.22.147.202 08:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * In case you haven't noticed, this article still requires more work to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Seven 09:30, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Improvements
This is the things I think we should improve: If you like this Ill start working immediately. Please answer. Tintor2 (talk) 12:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
 * In the plot overview we should only mention the most important parts in a few sentences
 * Change the techniques to paragraph mentioning only the most recurring and important.
 * Create Background section by combining early life and tsuikohen (again only important)


 * Eh, I don't have a huge issue with that, but it'll be difficult to compress his early life (aka events that happened in Tsuiokuhen), since the creator took the liberty of expanding the character in that area. Events in the Rurouni Kenshin anime shouldn't be too hard to merge though. As for the techniques section, the former format of the Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū techniques seemed fine, however, I did consider the misc techniques area of little importance. Still, all his techniques can be compressed/shortened or integrated rather than a majority of it being simply removed. Though I doubt it can be compressed into one paragraph, since Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū is a bit too intricate, and it has to be explained before describing the techniques. Also, there are no other related articles that can explain Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū techniques and origins, which can possibly result in it seeming in-universe (if only the techniques are described, it'll sound confusing without an explanation of Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū).
 * Since my vacation got interrupted by a flurry of rain, which seems like it'll last for another 2-3 days >.<, I think I can try to work on this tomorrow. I've already constructed a formatted draft, so I'm more than positive that I can complete it by this Saturday or Sunday, but if you really want to work on it, please tell me first, so I can just continue to work on another article. And if anyone can add references to the current article, that'll be helpful. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  08:07, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Instead of giving details about the feelings of the character we can use a personality section, for example the line "Throughout the Rurouni Kenshin period, Kamiya Kaoru develops strong romantic feelings for him, which he comes to realize. Despite his feelings, he is constantly haunted by the wrongs committed in his past, and believes he doesn't deserve happiness." could enter in personality as we can add the formal way of talking and the famous "oro?." The one of the tecniques was an advice given by many editors review, since most techniques dont paly a huge role in the series and many are used only once there is no need in having them. For other examples see the Naruto Uzumaki and Son Goku (Dragon Ball) articles. There is no need in telling the difference between the OVA and manga as these differences are added in the OVA article and the manga is the original canon. There are also many fair use image for a character article.Tintor2 (talk) 9:12, 3 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I also think a personality section is one of the things that this article is lacking. And it'll shorten some parts of the article if one is made. As for the techniques; each technique doesn't have to be mentioned, and most of it can be left out; I only meant that an explanation of his development in Hiten Mitsurugi-Ryū and Battōjutsu is necessary, which would probably only take up one (or two small) paragraphs. Then the primary Hiten techniques can be mentioned with its following variations, but without a long explanation in how the character executes the technique, which would most likely only be one mid-sized paragraph. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  23:40, 3 January 2008

One thing I have been thinking about the techniques is that Kenshin isnt the only user of the Hiten mitsurugi ryu. Hiko, Yahiko and that guy from the fillers also use these techniques. Maybe we can create a section for the hiten and there we can put every technique.

I changed the main image because the other was form the manga but if anybody wants you can replace it.Tintor2 (talk) 14:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, since the basics of Hiten is no longer an issue, I've compressed the techniques section (renamed as such since Kenshin doesn't really have any other fighting skills beside swordsmanship; "Swordsmanship" is actually a good section title too). I shortened/compressed it more, removing some of the step-by-step details in performing the move, without removing the technical aspects in its effects or general use, and got to add in a mention of a few more.
 * And I did revert the image to the one of the manga, since there's really nothing wrong with a colored manga image. Also, the manga image shows more of Kenshin's truer and original colors; at least for a majority of the series. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  06:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Awesome edits. The problem of the image is copyright policy. IMHO, manga images should only be used if there are no anime ones. The changes of colors is common in every manga and anime. Although it may look different, the difference is just the light.Tintor2 (talk) 14:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Well WP:NFC (along with WP:C/c) states that cover art (which the current picture is) is acceptable for use in identifying the character. And by the colors, I guess I just meant his robe, which is technically (dark) red for a majority of the series (manga and anime), and the current pic also shows more of the character. Also, the anime over manga images are usually done by preference. But...if you want to rv the picture, then I don't really have a problem with that.
 * Also, in my recent edit, I just replaced a few sentences that weren't too significant to his own story with the ones that dealt more with his development and reasons (technically just an information switch <.>). DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  07:14, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, now what we need to complete is the personality section. If anybody wants we can change it to character outline to describe the appearance of Kenshin, his scar, etc. Instead of the getting deep in Battosai we can explain it simply as there is no explanation about this strange change.

After that Ill start with the references. The only problem is that I dont live in USA so I dont have the ISBN of the volumes. Tintor2 (talk) 13:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)


 * For the ISBNs of all the volumes just go here (Viz's official Kenshin manga section). On the side, it lists redirects for all the volumes, which each contains the corresponding ISBN code. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  05:10, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello, there are a few things I want to ask: Well see you.Tintor2 (talk) 9:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The other media lacks info about the movie of ruroken and I dont remember more or less what happened, can somebody edit that in a few sentences? Tintor2 (talk • contribs) 11:42, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Is there an article about the 9 points of the swordmanship to link it with the Kuzuryusen?
 * Im uploading a technique picture about Kenshin (they recommended), Im thinking in the amakakeru ryu no hirameki(since it is hard to explain), do you agree?
 * does anybody know a website where they sell rurouni kenshin toys to add to reception?
 * can somebody who knows japanese check the background and see if the kanji is ok? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tintor2 (talk • contribs) 11:48, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Kenshin having Schizophrenia or DID
Don't you think that maybe Kenshin have Schizophrenia or Dissociative identity disorder for having 2 characters inside him: the peaceful wanderer: Kenshin Himura; and the brutal slayer: battousai the slasher?! -Elyu January 11, 2008 9:04a
 * Well, Kenshin is definitely not Schizo, seeing as how he does not suffer from delusions or anything of the like. As for DID, he doesn't have that either, since he is completely aware of his actions. His Battosai personality is more like something that refers to his ruthlessness; when he gets pushed over the edge. Rather than multiple personality, it's more like the outward personalities he chooses to show in front of others. Besides, both of those are just original research and unless some justified facts from the series or reliable source states (or implies) that he has either of these disorders, then let's not jump to conclusions. DarkAngel █▀▀007▄▄█  06:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Elyu, no original research is allowed. Only say so if Watsuki says so. WhisperToMe (talk) 00:33, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

GA pass
This article now meets the criteria. It had several grammar problems, which I fixed. I also left a few hidden comments on minor issues. I would suggest next time if you want a quicker review have someone do a quick grammar check before nominating. Great work on citations and breadth. Very good article. Wrad (talk) 21:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks Wrad. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:30, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Expand out-of-universe and reduce detailed in-universe
My doubt of this article becoming FA is the balance between in and out of universe info. I could find critics of the English voice actors of Kenshin and add them to reception. Some sentences such as " However, he eventually begins relying on a few friends, such as Sagara Sanosuke, his most reliable friend,[24] and even a child named Myōjin Yahiko, whom he sometimes allows to fight alongside him" could be more redundant as "However, he eventually begins relying on his friends, allowing to fight alongside him." I think that the introduction of sakabato should be moved to the lead since its importance and to avoid links to Rurouni Kenshin. The user who made the peer review thought of it as a good idea here Thoughts?--Tintor2 (talk) 15:56, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm...why didn't he post to the peer review page. It would be easier for all of us to see that way. But agreed we do need to work on the prose quite a bit. AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * No idea, do you think it may be good idea to make the copy-edit request for the article once we finish the condense and expand?--Tintor2 (talk) 17:45, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, definitely. It will probably be easier to look for one from the FA resources page rather than the League of Copyeditors, as the LoCE has been rather inactive of late. AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:10, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * FA resources page? I had no idea that existed.--Tintor2 (talk) 21:46, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * WP:1FAPQ, here ya go :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 21:55, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Could you make the request? I cant find anyelse than those interviews I added to the talk page.--Tintor2 (talk) 22:18, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Sure, just let me know when you think its ready for it. AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:13, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Probably not much, the interview in AnimeOnDVD.com says more or less the origin of "oro?" so I guess that information should be moved to conception. Thoughts?--Tintor2 (talk) 11:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So?--Tintor2 (talk) 16:58, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Added. AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:21, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Now I guess the reception needs a bit of expansion, (the conception now is the longest part of the article now). I will see if I can find something.--Tintor2 (talk) 17:30, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Reception can be, if info is available. I don't think its a bad thing for conception to be long, since the author gives lots of info about it :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 17:34, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I added a bit more, I guess it could be moment for WP:1FAPQ, however is that made^_^.--Tintor2 (talk) 17:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I've posted a request to one of the copy editors. AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * User:MBisanz is going to give it a going over :) AnmaFinotera (talk) 18:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Cool.--Tintor2 (talk) 19:04, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

More reception
I found these two interviews that look pretty nice that talks about Kenshin's voice actor.. I just cant understand too much about it (Im not a native English speaker). Could anybody add it?--Tintor2 (talk) 21:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Finally got around to writing up something and adding it. Hope that helps and works okay? AnmaFinotera (talk) 03:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That looks nice.--Tintor2 (talk) 11:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Cd drama
Could it be added to the appearances in other media, info about the cd drama or some novels? Tell me and I ll add it.Tintor2 (talk) 19:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Wait a second, those novels and cd drama only repeat the same events of the manga and the anime--Tintor2 (talk) 20:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * You know, when you start talking to yourself, its worrying ;) That said, unless the drama CDs and novels had some new information or change something, beyond mentioning he's appearance there I don't think there is much else to say. --  AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 20:12, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Samurai or not?
I understand most people call any Japanese warrior with a katana a "samurai", but that's as wrong as calling every American in a ten gallon hat who carries a six shooter a "cowboy". Samurai were a military aristocracy, of which Kenshin was never a part of. Before the events of the series, he was simply an assassin. During the series, he was "rurouni"... something made up by Watsuki which doesn't mean the same as ronin.

For more information on this misconception (perpetuated by ADV), see DVD Vision Japan and Anime Prime.--Nohansen (talk) 00:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * What does one actually have to do to be classified as a samurai? Is Saitō one because he worked for the government? I know Kenshin has mostly the characteristics of one, but I kind of see your point that he only served as an assassin, not as a guardsman or army soldier. Though why is Samurai Jack categorized as such? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the biography of the historical Saitō Hajime, he was born to a gokenin, which would account for his social status. "Jack" was the son of a shogun, which I guess grants him the title (that, and the fact that Tartakovsky says Jack is a samurai). Kenshin was a peasant trained by Seijūrō, that alone doesn't make him a samurai. See Animefringe.--Nohansen (talk) 01:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I was referring to the fictional Saitō Hajime. Because he is part of the Shinsengumi, does that mean he is a samurai? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It's the same guy. It's safe to say their backgrounds are the same, too.--Nohansen (talk) 04:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay...not to seem simple, but the OVAs were retitled Samurai X, and subtitled Wandering Samurai in some of the English releases. That would seem to indicate that as far as the English licensors are concerned, Kenshin is a samurai. He is also repeatedly grouped in discussions about the declining future of the samurai in the series, also indicating that other characters considered him to be among those ranks. If a reliable source is needed, however, Anime Explosion! discussed Kenshin being a ronin and specifically refers to him as a samurai several times. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 00:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * That's what I'm talking about ("most people call any Japanese warrior with a katana a samurai), and most of the time they're wrong. Unless there's a specific moment in the manga where Kenshin is addressed as a "samurai", and there's doubt and disagreement over Kenshin's status as one, I think it's best not to call him so. Don't you?--Nohansen (talk) 01:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think if reliable sources are saying he is, unless other sources exist saying he definitely is not, then by the guidelines, we go with what the sources say. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 01:27, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Aren't the three links I provided enough?--Nohansen (talk) 04:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Tintor2 told me that in volume 25 Yahiko addresses him as such. Sound convincing? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It seems what Yahiko said is Kenshin was a samurai "in spirit"; in others words, not really a samurai.--Nohansen (talk) 15:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * And what about AnmaFinotera's comment below? Seems Kenshin is known as a samurai to other characters as well. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, I would like to hear from Tintor2 to have the context of the scene he mentioned, but... if the characters themselves (or make that, "Viz's translators") can't agree whether Kenshin is a samurai or not, and there are internet critics (myself included) who say the title of "Samurai X" is inaccurate, wouldn't saying he is a samurai be tantamount to WP:OR? Isn't it better to err on the side of caution?--Nohansen (talk) 17:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I gave the context of the scene he mentioned in the list below. The other characters call him a samurai. Deciding he isn't and saying we won't even mention it is WP:OR and WP:NPOV. We should stick to what they say he is. If we want to mention that some feel that he isn't, that is fine, but over all, as fa as the English translation is concerned, he is. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:18, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I would like to know more; saying Yahiko says on page 164 "Kenshin was a samurai" doesn't tell me anything, to be honest. And you say Viz's English translation says he is a samurai, but what if the original Japanese script never says so? That's something to consider. After all, Kenshin's JA article doesn't say he's a "samurai", only a "swordsman" and an "assassin".--Nohansen (talk) 18:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay...longer summary (though if you have not read the series, how can you speak to whether Kenshin is a samurai or not?). Kujiranami Hyokgo has been rampaging through the town wanting to kill Kenshin, but Kenshin was in the Fallen Village despondent over Kaoro's death. Yahiko, the only one of the "Kenshin group" around, fights Hyokgo. Tsubame, fearing he will die, goes to the Fallen Village to find Kenshin and beg him to save Yahiko. Initially, the other men there stop her from entering until she starts calling for Kenshin, and that's when the man says "Oh, another visitor for that samurai." Tsubame begs Kenshin to help Yahiko but Kenshin doesn't seem to respond and the others make her leave. Kenshin gets up a short-while later, having heard her words and finding himself again. After seeing he is gone, the man asks "how did that samurai manage to get up?"  Moving on a bit, Yahiko is still fighting Hyokgo and near the end. Hyokgo picks him up by the head and seems to be about to kill him when Kenshin arrives and hits him with the nine-headed dragon and frees Yahiko. He then cuts of Hyokgo's gun arm for the second time. Hyokgo demands that Kenshin kill him this time, or promises to just keep coming. Yahiko talks to him, insuring his own arm and saying he'll be the one to fight him. While talkign to Hyokgo, he reminds him that "Kenshin was a samurai" and that Hyokgo is a samurai and that there "samurai has no need to hold grudges against another samurai." His speech eventually calms Hyokgo and he agrees that samurai should not hold grudges and he leaves, thanking Kenshin for showing him kindness yet again. The conversation is pretty clear, as are Yahiko's words.--  AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:46, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Note: I have read the series, but I don't think I reached volume 25. Also, I don't own the manga; so, even if I read volume 25, I can't corroborate what happened. I'm trusting you who have (and own) the books to provide the necessary details. That said, anyone have the Japanese volumes to see if the word "samurai" is used in the scene AnmaFinotera's just described? That'd be really helpful.--Nohansen (talk) 19:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * In volume 25, on page 98 when Tsubame goes to the Fallen Village to find Kenshin, one of the men says "Another visitor for that samurai." He also is called a samurai by the same man on page 131 after Kenshin leaves: "how did that samurai manage to get up." Twice more on 139. On 164 is where Yahiko specifically states "Kenshin was a samurai" and that a "samurai has no need to hold grudges against another samurai" while talking to Kujiranami Hyokgo (the big dude with the gun arm). That's in just one volume. I think that's enough for me. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 01:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

But not enough for me. I think the character's background coupled with the three links I provided (where it is pointed out Kenshin is not a samurai) cast enough doubt on the character's status. But that's just me.--Nohansen (talk) 04:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's put it this way Nohansen: who hired Kenshin to be a hitokiri? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * "Katsura Kogoro, a leader of the Chōshū clan", right? But just because Four Hitokiri of the Bakumatsu were samurai, doesn't mean this hitokiri was one, too. All we know is: peasant, slave, assassin.--Nohansen (talk) 04:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Only one of those is really an RS. One is border-line and the other is definitely not. The English version says he's a samurai, repeatedly, so he is. Now if reviewers want to say that they don't think he is, while others say he is, hey, new section :P -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 04:27, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * English translators can be wrong or take serious liberties, we can at least agree on that. But if you want to keep calling Kenshin a samurai, that's fine. Given what I know, it's wrong; but it's fine... We might need a Japanese history expert to clear this mess.--Nohansen (talk) 04:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe someone from WP:JPN can help? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Again unless some source specifically notes that Kenshin himself is not a samurai, saying that we "know its wrong" is no better than WP:OR. As it is, conflicting sources say different things. As such, we could put a section on whether he is or is not, giving equal weight to both sides and providing relevant, reliable sources. Otherwise, I think we need to stick with what the source says. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 05:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm concordant with such a section. What would it be titled? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * The more I think about it, the more I think the article as a whole should work from the idea that, as far as the series is concerned, Kenshin is a samurai. In the reception section, we can note that some critics feel that Kenshin is improperly termed a samurai. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:47, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Cross Shaped Scar's Origin
In the article it is depicted as "Tomoe's knife had flown into the air and coincidentally slashed Kenshin's cheek, creating the famous X-shaped scar across his left cheek". I watched the OVA. One of the lines of cross shape has been made early in the OVA. The other one was made by tomoe while she was dying on Kenshin's arms with her knife. The knife didn't "coincidentally slashed Kenshin's cheek". --Fotte (talk) 15:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The OVA depicts the events differently from the manga. As the manga is the primary work, the description uses its depiction. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 15:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I know we're supposed to write fiction as if it were the present so was this ok? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)


 * That's fine :) -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 21:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Age
I see that it is cited in the context of the page, but why not also do so in the infobox? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Feel free to add it back in a good format...the IPs edits were so long and didn't seem sure. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 18:09, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Just a note, the databook Kenshin Kaden confirms him to be 28 years old.Tintor2 (talk) 18:14, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for clearing that up guys. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:07, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I believe he is 28... but at first i got confused because of his looks... haha... his age was actually discussed in the series for a brief moment. It was when kaoru came to seijiro hiko to see kenshin. (thiajin503!!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.93.21.5 (talk) 07:36, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand this in the opening
The opening paragraph said, "[h]e is the main protagonist for the series and has developed into a media franchise, which consists of a series of manga, anime, original video animations (OVAs), movies, soundtracks, video games, and other collectibles." I think it's not quite right; from when Kenshin the person "has developed into a media franchise"? It is RK which has been, not him.-- Samuel di  Curtisi  di  Salvadori  23:52, 20 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Reworded...is that better? -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 23:56, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Better. Thank you.-- Samuel di  Curtisi  di  Salvadori  02:01, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Sakabato Sword
Is a sakabato an actual type of sword? Because when I type it in it redirects me to the Himura Kenshin page. ForteKane (talk) 16:51, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, the sakabato is a fictional sword. However, there is merchandising based on the sakabato.Tintor2 (talk) 16:56, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Nope, as Tintor notes it is a fictional sword created for the series. Since the series release, however, some sakabato's have appeared in the sword market. I purchased on that is a full replica of Kenshin's sword...absolutely gorgeous! -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 17:02, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. Thanks, guys. ForteKane (talk) 15:40, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that you can describe it as purely fictional, the series seems to admit that the idea was a novelty and he continues to be mocked for it througout. I kinda followed it as a sort of continuation of all the bizare swords attributed to Seiku. But i don't have sources to support that. (ie something that even in the series was seen as a new thing that had never been made before and never would be made again.) note that the name is entirely intuitive. 74.138.203.143 (talk) 21:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Kenshin Himura vs. Himura Kenshin
I believe it should be Himura Kenshin rather than Kenshin Himura, because I always thought we were supposed to use the official anime title and not the manga title... I think that people are using the Viz excuse to keep it as Eastern order.Moocowsrule (talk) 01:41, 6 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule


 * No, we use the official English name, starting with the primary work. The manga is the original work, not the anime. Additionally, per the earlier discussions, as the series is set in the Meiji era, the original western order is kept for all of the character names per Wikipedia naming conventions. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 01:47, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Translation
Hello, I'm from Russian wiki, wanted to translate this article into Russian but became stuck with "maintained a duty to his dead comrades" expression. Can anyone tell me what exactly it is supposed to mean? I'm really stuck as no online dictionary, be it English-Russian or English-English one, lists this expression. I guess it is something, well, honorable, but can't put it any closer. ru:Ari —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.226.233.158 (talk) 12:10, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I couldnt find that expression. You can replace it with "as an atonement for the murders he once committed as an assassin". Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 13:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Many thanks (the expression itself occurs in the phrase "According to Watsuki, when he found that Kawakami maintained a duty to his dead comrades, he decided to create the title character" which is the second phrase in the "Creation and conception" section of the current version of the article). Would you be so kind to answer one more question: I know there are 2 English anime dubs, one by Media Blasters and another one I don't remember by what company, but they changed almost the characte names (Kenshi_ Himura, Kori Kamiya, Yoshi Myojin, Hajime Sa_to). What company made that "namechanging" dub? I need this info because Russian dub was for some reason made not by translating original Japanese scripts, but by translating this English dub (I cannot even fathom why they did it). ru:Ari —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.226.233.158 (talk) 14:08, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It means he has a debt to his comrades (partners). Kenshin has a debt, but for all the people he killed. About the English dubs, I dont know that since I live in South America.Tintor2 (talk) 14:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Spoilers moved
I moved a bunch of stuff around today to pull all the plot spoilers under Plot overview. Also fixing some grammatical issues. I also read Template:Uw-spoiler, and chose not to put a spoiler tag in here.--Rfsmit (talk) 23:20, 15 May 2009 (UTC)


 * See WP: Spoiler, we dont remove spoilers from any section. However, good work with the grammar fixes.Tintor2 (talk) 00:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Relationship with Yahiko and other friends
I noticed that although Yahiko is mentioned briefly, nothing is mentioned about Kenshin's relationship with Yahiko or any of his other friends (other then Kaoru). It would be helpful to mention whom Kenshin is concerned about protecting... --Harukakaminogichan (talk) 00:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Commenting on his relation with every character would fail WP:Plot. Therefore, the relations shown in the article are his most notable ones, Saito for being a rival and Kaoru for being his romantical interest; both of them show how Kenshin is related to his past.Tintor2 (talk) 00:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks! I appreciate the change you made; it helps promote greater clarity.--Harukakaminogichan (talk) 00:45, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Man-slayer, man slayer, or manslayer?
Webster says manslayer. Dictionary.com redirects man-slayer and man slayer to the manslayer entry. I think it's important to have consistency... what do you all believe?--Harukakaminogichan (talk) 00:51, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia seems to be using manslayer as man-slayer does not redirect to any article.Tintor2 (talk) 00:57, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I corrected all the instances to manslayer.--Harukakaminogichan (talk) 01:33, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

"nearly incapable of killing"
In the second paragraph of the introduction, it is stated that the sakabato is "nearly incapable of killing". The impression I get from watching the series is that this sword, in the hands of Kenshin, is fully capable of killing. All he has to do is reverse the blade in his hand, perform a stabbing action, or hit someone with an amount of force greater than they could withstand. For example in his first battle with Sano, I believe there is a point where Kenshin is surprised at how hard he can hit Sano without killing him. I'm not saying that the statement is incorrect per se, but it might not be as clear as possible. I think it is an important aspect of Kenshin's character that his skill renders him a fighter who is always potentially deadly but who chooses not to kill. --AnalogWeapon (talk) 15:30, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Addition
I would like to add more about the story between the prevention in Tokyo and the beggining. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tio Oso (talk • contribs) 16:49, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


 * The problem is that those chapters are really episodic and don't affect Kenshin notably so it would be just wp:plot.Tintor2 (talk) 17:55, 30 January 2013 (UTC)