Talk:Hip hop (culture)

New reversion of the Six elements of the hip hop movement
Hi All, I did a fixing up of the six elements of the hip hop movement, Piotr had an issue with it after it being up on the page in the lead for 6 years after users put it there because it is a big part of the culture, I don't know what is the issue with Piotr and this Ronald Savage guy, because he pushing hard I hope it doesn't have anything to do with that bambaataa issue it just seems weird, anyway i'm asking for everyone and not just 1 person to be open minded and this belongs right back in the lead because it's hip hop history and i know some of you probably didn't even know this is a part of hip hop history and I don't know why piotr wants to bury this true history I ask that you all hear and read it yourselfs from the hip hop cultures own legendary Chief Rocker Busy Bee who help start hip hop culture in 1977, this is wikipedia why are keeping this from the public when so many people know this. Feel welcome to add or edit this is historical. I need more then just one person which is piotr who even had someone remove the Hip Hop Movement page on wikipedia that was not right because it was a lot of us wiki users helping out to build it which it was up on wikipedia for 6 years as well. I'm trying my best to work this out, I need more then 1 person (piotr jr) Well the reversion is below and below that is the references /sources attached to the article. I also attached Sway in the morning interviwing both Ronald Savage -aka- Bee-Stinger & Busy Bee and you all can see for your self that hip hop movement is new as well as Doggie Diamonds interview you know both of these two posted these interviews from their verified account of the video source, so you know it's inherits its reliability. I spent a lot of tome on this resouce just to add this small part of hip hop history coming both both pioneers who were their when hip hop culture frist started.

'''Revised after 6 years in Wikipedia, please add on or edit so it can be replaced back into hip hop article. Please listen to interviews as well their time stamped, I think i did it right.'''

In 1990, Ron "Bee-Stinger" Savage, a former member of the Zulu Nation, (Savage is known as the son of the Hip Hop Movement) while working with the hip hop group Snap is credited with coining the term "Six Elements of the Hip Hop Movement" being inspired by Public Enemy's rap conscious style recordings. In 2017 The Chief Rocker Busy Bee stated “Hip Hop Movement is a term that has been used throughout the past for several decades but it has never been used in an official capacity. Through our efforts, the term and its language will have new meaning" Busy Bee and Ron “Bee-Stinger” Savage that hip hop movement is trademarked now as well as the logo so this is going to be new to them as well as everyone else after so long of hip hop movement not having legal meaning and ownership. Busy Bee and Bee-Stinger stated "that Hip Hop and Rap are two different things and when artist are recording and talking about shooting guns, disrespecting women, and selling drugs in there records that is not a part of the hip hop movement or hip hop". The official “Six Elements of the Hip Hop Movement" are: Consciousness Awareness, Civil Rights Awareness, Activism Awareness, Justice, Political Awareness, and Community Awareness in music.

Below is the references /sources attached to the article

In 1990, Ron "Bee-Stinger" Savage, a former member of the Zulu Nation, (Savage is known as the son of the Hip Hop Movement) while working with the hip hip group Snap is credited with coining the term "Six Elements of the Hip Hop Movement" being inspired by Public Enemy's rap conscious style recordings. https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_of_Hip_Hop/NMSKDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=six+elements+of+the+hip+hop+movement&pg=PT5&printsec=frontcover https://parkchestertimes.com/ronald-savage-better-known-as-bee-stinger-trademarks-hip-hop-movement  https://www.iamhiphopmagazine.com/news-ronald-savage-the-hip-hop-movement/ In 2017 The Chief Rocker Busy Bee stated “Hip Hop Movement is a term that has been used throughout the past for several decades but it has never been used in an official capacity. Through our efforts, the term and its language will have new meaning,” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9f0jGPYFXk https://www.doggiediamondstv.com/ron-savage-busy-bee-acquire-hip-hop-movement-trademark/ ref>https://boombapnation.com/hip-hop-movement-ceo-ron-bee-stinger-savage-drops-stop-cappin-video Busy Bee and Ron “Bee-Stinger” Savage stated that hip hop movement is trademarked now as well as the logo http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2017/may/19/fourth-season-ordered-black-ish/  6:00-6:51  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9f0jGPYFXk so this is going to be new to them as well as  everyone else after so long of hip hop movement not having legal meaning and ownership. Busy Bee and Bee-Stinger stated “that Hip Hop and Rap are two different things and when artist are recording and talking about shooting guns, disrespecting women, and selling drugs in your records that is not a part of the hip hop movement or hip hop”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9f0jGPYFXk 1:00 – 1:28- The official  "Six Elements of the Hip Hop Movement" are: Consciousness Awareness, Civil Rights Awareness, Activism Awareness, Justice, Political Awareness, and Community Awareness in music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6Xz50h-u78&t=1025s18:28  15:28-18:28  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9f0jGPYFXk  https://www.spankradio.uk/blog/hip-hop-as-a-culture-6-elements-of-the-hip-hop-movement/amp/  https://parkchestertimes.com/ronald-savage-better-known-as-bee-stinger-trademarks-hip-hop-movement  https://www.birthofhiphop.com/jay-z-with-dean-baquet/  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9f0jGPYFXk https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_of_Hip_Hop_Collection/D232DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=six+elements+of+the+hip+hop+movement&pg=PT88&printsec=frontcover  https://www.google.com/books/edition/IMPULSE_URGES_AND_FANTASIES/GL-1DAEACAAJ?hl=en  https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/afrika-bambaataa-sex-abuse-accuser-ronald-savage-speaks-article-1.2594599  https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/impulse-urges-and-fantasies-ronald-savage/1123982738

Street sting (talk) 09:05, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , Blogs, Youtube links to primary source interviews and reposted press releases are not the kind of sources we would need for content like this. If this is a big enough deal to be lede-worthy, it should be well covered by musicologists - I would suggest you make a trip to the library and see what music historians publishing under academic imprints have to say about it. MrOllie (talk) 10:44, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok so let me ask so we're could we put it at if not on lead. Street sting (talk) 12:41, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * , Without reliable sources it should not be in the article at all. MrOllie (talk) 12:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

There is reliable sources, the Amsterdam news paper, parkchester times (news paper), ect so now newspapers are not reliable sources, I've seen some of the references on but yet all of a sudden my references are not reliable, so now the Amsterdam news in parkchester times and magazines are not reliable for me but reliable for everyone else who have regular references. Both Legends credible interviewers, so now "sway in the morning" is not credible. Then you talk about blogs there's only one blog reference in here and it's backed up by other references. So what's the problem

Street sting (talk) 17:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Okay I get it so after 6 years of it being in the lead because this one person doesn't want it in the lead, okay so if the lead is the issue after 6 years so I'm saying we're in the article do you want it, I'm not talking about the lead anymore I'm saying so where can we put it in the article. I'm trying to be fair and work this out you're saying my sources are not credible to be in the lead after 6 years okay cool so where in the hip hop article can we put it being that I do have credible sources. Street sting (talk) 17:40, 2 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The Parkchester times is a tiny circulation local newspaper that has only been around since 2018. The Amsterdam news is borderline (it is an alternative weekly), but it does not support the vast majority of the content you want to add, and what is there is clearly a repost of a press release. The 'problem' is that material like this should have sourcing on the level of books from major publishers. It never should have been in the article at all, that it was there for a few years before someone noticed it didn't meet with sourcing standards does not mean we shouldn't fix it now (by removing it). To be perfectly clear: with this level of sourcing I oppose including it anywhere in the article. PS: it is more than one person who has objected. - MrOllie (talk) 17:42, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

so it's books now - Eric Reese very well-respected and credible source I just added these two books taken from google books as well as Ronald Savage book taken from google book 2 credible sources taken from books on google books search that ref The Six Elements of the Hip Hop Movement. I just was told those three books are great references for Wiki for this short piece I wanted to add in hip hop (wiki) there are other refs to but adding these three will make it 6 refs and everyone knows Eric Reese and I just was told he has many articles used his books for ref’s and it never ever was an issue because he is a great source. I also said it doesn't have to be in the lead.

3 book sources from Goggle Book Search

The History of Hip Hop vol #2 –Eric Reese - 2019 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_of_Hip_Hop/NMSKDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=six+elements+of+the+hip+hop+movement&pg=PT5&printsec=frontcover

The History of Hip Hop Collectionbooks.google.com › books Eric Reese • 2020 https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_of_Hip_Hop_Collection/D232DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=six+elements+of+the+hip+hop+movement&pg=PT88&printsec=frontcover

Impulse Urges And Fantasies – 2014 Ronald Savage life story https://www.google.com/books/edition/IMPULSE_URGES_AND_FANTASIES/GL-1DAEACAAJ?hl=en

Street sting (talk) 20:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)


 * , You really need to read WP:RS. Self published books do not help, nor does Savage's autobiography. We need something with an independent author and an independent, reputable publisher. - MrOllie (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

OK let's stop playing games, Enough is Enough I'm going to place the article, it's over the top when you disrespect a book author just to disrespect the hip hop legend Ron "Bee-Stinger" Savage, and disrespect the hip hop pioneer Busy Bee, here is Eric Reese who is every credible- 54 books under his belt, and just because he stated the six elements of the hip hop movement in TWO of his books you saying it doesn't count but it counts for other users articles on wiki : https://www.goodreads.com/author/list/16127105.Eric_Reese You probably would have said the same thing about book author Chang Jeff Self-published books who is all over wiki as refs as Eric Reese. This is premature. There has not been extensive discussion on Talk:hip hop, which is required for moderated dispute resolution. One or two people is not enough on something that can be easily worked out on this small piece of hip hop history thats been up for 6 years and is a part of importants to the publice, but 1 or 2 users are trying to come up with anything and everything they can think of to say, and i tried to do everything that was asked of me EVEN SAYING WERE DO YOU WANT TO PUT IT IF THIS 1 USER DOESN'T WANT IT IN THE LEAD WHEN MANY USERS WORKED ON IT WITH ME 6 YEARS AGO, and when I do making chances and use more refs ot's 1 user or 2 users who i belive are allies they get mad and think of something else, but then when you go so far to disrespect a noble book author who is used as a ref on other wiki pages (That reachs BIAS) it's good for them to use his book on wiki and not for Ronald Savage, this seems every bias and something is be hide this, Are you're going to help with the little article piece that's been there for years or is the piece ok, users are using this mans trademark brand name all over wiki that he owns the name of, but 1 or 2 people trying to keep him and the fact that not only did he coin the term six elements of the Hip Hop Movement he owns the name Hip Hop Movement, did your even get permission to put the word with your own meaning of hip hop movement without even given that man credit, I think that's news worthy in it self. Everything I said is not a dispute it's the truth backed up by facts. I tried everything to work this out with this person who started this whole issue, this one user even had another user takedown Hip HOP Movement page after 6 years as well, this is nothing short of vandalism, their reasons have no merit based on their action on a living man's name and brand name. I SAID A MILLION TIMES WE CAN MEET IN THE MIDDLE, WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS IMPORTANT HIP HOP HISTORY INFORMATION SHOULD GO SO THAT PEOPLE DON'T US A TRADEMARK BRAND NAME without knowing its a registered service mark name so they can add the correct information on a living persons brand, WHICH HE CAN AND HAS BEEN KNOCKING DOWN SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS USING THE NAME HIP HOP MOVEMENT, wiki has this info and letting 1 or 2 of its users to possibly get many many people knowingly giving out wrong information on a living man's brand. Street sting (talk) 20:21, 4 August 2021 (UTC)


 * See WP:NLT making lawsuit threats like the above will get your account immediately blocked. MrOllie (talk) 21:28, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Noting for the record the comment was subsequently modified to remove the legal threats. Interested parties can see the original comment in the page history. MrOllie (talk) 22:38, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

How can i make a threat I'm not the artist, I'm just stated what could happen or not happen I don't know but what i do know is he did take down social media sites that used Hip Hop Movement, this is a talk page right, well I'm talking just stating facts of what he has done already if you read it wrong I apologize, I'm just laying down facts of what's going on all of a sudden, this unfair bais takening place, now all of a sudden I'm making lawsuit threats, well your 100 precent WRONG, I feel very offend by your comment, I'm not the owner with the rights to the name Ron "Bee-Stinger" Savage is, I don't know him' all I know is what I read and seen on the news, I'm not the one trying to keep the truth from the public 1 or 2 people are and I just was wondering does this have anything to do with what happened in 2016 with Bambaataa and Ron "Bee-Stinger" Savage, and is the user who deleted his small article is apart of the Zulu Nation thats why he was going so hard he even took his picture down and delted hip hop movement page all with in mins, but knowone is looking at that just attacking me just like busy bee said in that interview on Sway in the Morning that pripable looked at that i posted as ref, it's new and it's gonna be hard for people to swallow that Hip Hop Movement now as ownership. Street sting (talk) 22:37, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

, There's no conspiracy here. This is about failure to follow Wikipedia's sourcing requirements. This isn't '1 or 2' editors, 9 people commented on the AFD discussion. MrOllie (talk) 22:45, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Oh, you're talking about Hip Hop Movement page that other users help built 6 years ago on that page that all these users were disrespected because one person came along and just deleted it after 6 six years, trust that is being looked into, But I'm rebuilding that page anyway and with it being protected, but let me keep quiet, but i'm not talking about that page it's being rebuilt, im talking about this issue right here, there is no 9 people commenting on here about the Six Elements Of Hip Hop Movement - ONLY YOU and how do i even know this is not another page of  Piotr Jr. who has that name as a redirected name which he used both names to remove hip hop movement which is a violation, trust we are looking at every move made over here at this office to be reported.

So like I been asking for the longest the Piotr Jr name just deleted the six elements of the hip hop movement with NO real reason other than saying it should not be in the lead it should be else wherein the article ( After 6 years of it being there) (His Opinion) Robjwev stated He will leave it in place " Six Elements of The Hip Hop Movement from here out. PIOTR JR RESPONDED WHEN HE SEEN IT WAS GOING TO BE PUT BACK BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PROBLEM WITH IT BEING THERE AS IT BEEN THERE FOR 6 YEARS, HE THEN STATES: No. Don't leave it. It should have been deleted. Thank you. isento (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2021 (UTC)  SO that's where we are at so my question again where should I put this important information that he heard come out the mouth of hip hop legend Busy Bee who helped build hip hop culture since 1977, not Piotr or you if your Piotr too. You read Jay Z say it, you saw it in Arthur Eric Reese books a respected book author who has made 51 books, what next do you want to see it on the news.Street sting (talk) 04:05, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

OH by the way isento is PIOTR JR redirect name we already filmed it on the phone camera being a redirect and being used to attack this man RonaldSavage (with attacking article with two names), so how do we know he doesn't have 3 names or 4.Street sting (talk) 04:22, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2022
To add direct quote from Public Enemy and their involvement in the 1980s. Mtvjack (talk) 00:13, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:30, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * All of it. It's all wrong 24.186.67.150 (talk) 04:51, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

FBA version of Hip-Hop CULTURE
The FBA version of this "Black American" Hip-Hop culture, is false, since no elements in Hip-Hop, are African American in nature. It should be noted, that they have their own version, that's irrelevant, to the actual Hip-Hop history, of The Bronx, created by Puerto Ricans, W. Indians, and some Blacks. There aren't any Hip-Hop crews, that can be named, the created any Hip-Hop elements, therefore this is all an attempt to appropriate Hip-Hop culture, from it's practitioners, in The Bronx. 24.186.67.150 (talk) 07:11, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: English 102 Section 4
— Assignment last updated by DoctorBeee (talk) 21:33, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2024
N5kingz (talk) 22:04, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

hip hop is a culture of rap music

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 22:14, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Race in America, sec 1
— Assignment last updated by Saltier LLama (talk) 16:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)