Talk:Hiram Clarke, Houston

Possible subdivisions

 * Jackson, Kim. "PAMELA HEIGHTS / City to assess need for more streetlights in neighborhood / Resident says lack of lighting in areas could invite crime." Houston Chronicle. Thursday August 30, 2007. ThisWeek 1.

Law and order
http://www.houstontx.gov/police/cs/beatpages/cs16e20.htm
 * The police beat covers:
 * Almeda Plaza, South Glen, Dumbarton Oaks, Briarwick
 * Zheng, Chunhua Zen. "Funding limitations curb city projects / Boney outlines area's mobility plans, explains fiscal constraints to residents." Houston Chronicle. Wednesday March 14, 2001. ThisWeek 2.
 * It says that some residents at the District D meeting wanted an increased police presence to discourage drug dealing in some areas such as Sunnyside and Hiram Clarke.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 14:24, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Elementary schools
With no boundary I can't say for certain which elementary schools serve HC and which ones do not.

But through a process I'll try to find a listing of those that probably serve the area. I'll use HISD's school zone locator to find which elementary schools cover areas: WhisperToMe (talk) 18:41, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * 3600 W. Fuqua (Transit Center) - Petersen Elementary School
 * 3810 West Fuqua (Multi Service Center) - Petersen Elementary School
 * 4363 West Fuqua (Police Center) - Montgomery Elementary School
 * 14000 Stancliff (Dowling MS) - Grissom Elementary School
 * 13218 Player Street (St. Gregorios) - Hobby Elementary School
 * 14507 S. Post Oak (Cajun's) - Grissom Elementary School

Bus routes

 * Staff. "Area briefs." Houston Chronicle. Thursday March 16, 1989. A33.
 * At the time, 14 Hiram Clarke Limited was a bus route.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 21:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Churches
WhisperToMe (talk) 22:18, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Moore, Louis. "Texas is a mission field for church from India." Houston Chronicle. Saturday May 15, 1986. Religion 1.
 * St. Gregorios Orthodox Church in the Hiram Clarke area is an Indian Orthodox church
 * As of 1986, that church and St. Thomas Orthodox Church had a total membership of about 150 families (500 people)

New Faith Missionary Baptist Church

St. Benedict's Catholic Church — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.81.192.2 (talk) 13:57, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Politics
WhisperToMe (talk) 05:49, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Staff. "Brown schedules 8th town hall meeting." Houston Chronicle. Thursday April 1, 1999. A24.

Firebug
1985 story about firebug: WhisperToMe (talk) 22:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Friedman, Steve. "`Fondra Firebug' suspect charged by arson officers." Houston Chronicle. Wednesday November 20, 1985. Section 1, Page 1.
 * "Fire officials believe Downs is responsible for 16 fires in southwest Houston that include several offices, homes and small buildings. Most of the fires occurred during the past weekend. Fires also were started in a Houston Police Department office at 14271 Hiram Clarke and a Department of Public Safety office at 4411 W. Orem. "
 * Friedman, Steve, Rad Sallee, and Deborah Hurst. "`Fondra' suspect had planned one more fire, suicide." Houston Chronicle. Wednesday November 20, 1985. Section 1, Page 1.
 * Staff. "Arsonist sought in 19 fires, including one at HPD office." Houston Chronicle. Sunday November 17, 1985. Section 1, Page 41.
 * "Fondra" may be a misspelling of "Fondren"

People
WhisperToMe (talk) 00:41, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Charles, Jeff. "Odd Squad, 2 Low, Yaggfu Front/Rap-A-Lot scores without gangsta and with; N.C. trio out for `Action'." Houston Chronicle. Sunday March 6, 1994. Zest 6.
 * "2 Low" is from Hiram Clarke
 * Rodriguez, Lori. "Sanchez's mayoral bid targets disparate voters." Houston Chronicle. Sunday October 7, 2001. A1.
 * Orlando Sanchez, a former candidate for Mayor of Houston, grew up in Hiram Clarke, and as of 2001 his mother still lives there

Gangs

 * Bardwell, S.K. and Joe Stinebaker. "VIOLENT Times/HANGING TOUGH/Agencies unite to fight gangs." Houston Chronicle. Sunday January 30, 1994. A1.
 * There is/was a gang called "707 Browns" aka "Hiram Clarke Mexicans"
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 00:45, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Restaurants
WhisperToMe (talk) 05:34, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Sowers, Leslie. "You won't roux going to Cajun's Patio Grill." Houston Chronicle. Friday March 19, 1999. Dining Guide Page 11.
 * Cajun's Patio Grill is/was in Hiram Clarke

Charity

 * Staff. "Around Houston." Houston Chronicle. Sunday October 24, 1999. Lifestyle 3.
 * Discusses benefit for building new community center
 * Hodge, Shelby. "Social calendar." Houston Chronicle. Wednesday April 1, 1998. Houston Section Page 3.
 * Discusses a charity benefit to assist apartment residents of the area.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 05:36, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Tropical Storm Allison
How it affected Hiram Clarke: WhisperToMe (talk) 14:17, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Freemantle, Tony, et al. "Allison comes back for more / Remnants of storm deliver new flooding." Houston Chronicle. Friday June 8, 2001. A1.
 * Staff. "MORE ON ALLISON." Houston Chronicle. Friday June 8, 2001. A1.
 * Perez, Danny "Anger, optimism define Sims area." Houston Chronicle. Thursday July 5, 2007. ThisWeek 4.

Lead paragraph
Suggest completely rewriting the lead. Too much emphasis of what Vince Young and sports writers opinion about the area. Summarize the area, demographics, change but don't label it a ghetto because Young says so. Young isn't that important. Nothing verifiable except for their dramatic quotes. These comments should be moved to the Vince Young article and moved from the lead. Hiram Clark has changed over the years, but it certainly isn't a drug infested ghetto as these people claim. It's a working class area. New homes have been constructed in neighborhoods off the road from S. Main down to Simsbrook. Postoak (talk) 19:49, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the best thing would be to find other sources which counteract what the Vince Young sources say. I personally understand that Hiram Clarke is more complicated than what the quotes say, but for now its all we have
 * Pretty much its his word (written in a newspaper), and he is perhaps the most famous person out of Hiram Clarke, versus "ours" (which we can't use since it would be original research) - Unless we find sources which describe Hiram Clarke in a more nuanced detail
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 22:37, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Since I did find some expansion from Vince Young I DID move it into a "crime" section. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:51, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

POV issues
This article is well written considering it is about an area which has very little written history, because it was largly grass fields not even two decades ago. My problems with the article are that most of the quoted sources are no longer verifiable since bare URLs were used in citing sources. Many of the weblinks have experienced "link rot". It is imperative that a claim that "Vince Young or Professor Stephen Klineberg" stated something, be verifiable for reliability's sake. As this article stands at the moment, it is mostly an opinion piece. My questions
 * It is claimed that most of the area was undeveloped land according to one of the sources, specifically source number (5)http://www.chron.com/news/article/This-community-is-on-the-Pointe-1687106.php. And I quote: "Straddled between 77085 and 77045, Corinthian Pointe has turned a former pasture into a community with an elementary school, a YMCA and retail services." If the area was so bare, how could it be as drug, and gang infested as Vince young, and some of the people cited (who mostly are unverifiable) purport?It may indeed have been, but the credibility of the claims is even dubious in "farmland".I certainly have not seen any "burglar bars on windows or weed choked front yards" as stated in the article "The gangstas of Godwin Park" (also a rotten web link.)If Hiram Clarke was crime infested when Vince Young grew up, is this article claiming that it still is? If so, please support with data from present day crime statistics, and to be objective, compare it with other Houston neighborhoods. I am open to helping with research and editing if need be. This article tends to make one think they will automatically be dodging bullets in this community.If that is the case, more current information is needed to build the case.
 * Can some information and pictures be added of "The Wareloft"- a LEED certified green building?
 * Can some more information be added to culture beyond a popular hairstyle. The culture and demographics of this place have changed a lot since the 1980s. Most of the population is now Hispanic.
 * Can I contribute current photos of public areas in this neighborhood for this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chchiyen (talk • contribs) 05:12, 26 February 2014 (UTC) Chchiyen (talk) 05:17, 26 February 2014 (UTC)Chchiyen

This comment was originally posted here:

This article is well written considering it is about an area which has very little written history, because it was largly grass fields not even two decades ago. My problems with the article are that most of the quoted sources are no longer verifiable since bare URLs were used in citing sources. Many of the weblinks have experienced "link rot". It is imperative that a claim that "Vince Young or Professor Stephen Klineberg" stated something, be verifiable for reliability's sake. As this article stands at the moment, it is mostly an opinion piece. My questions:


 * It is claimed that most of the area was undeveloped land according to one of the sources, specifically source number (5)http://www.chron.com/news/article/This-community-is-on-the-Pointe-1687106.php. And I quote: "Straddled between 77085 and 77045, Corinthian Pointe has turned a former pasture into a community with an elementary school, a YMCA and retail services." If the area was so bare, how could it be as drug, and gang infested as Vince young, and some of the people cited (who mostly are unverifiable) purport?It may indeed have been, but the credibility of the claims is even dubious in "farmland".I certainly have not seen any "burglar bars on windows or weed choked front yards" as stated in the article "The gangstas of Godwin Park" (also a rotten web link.)If Hiram Clarke was crime infested when Vince Young grew up, is this article claiming that it still is? If so, please support with data from present day crime statistics, and to be objective, compare it with other Houston neighborhoods (Graphs would be helpful). I am open to helping with research and editing if need be. This article tends to make one think they will automatically be dodging bullets in this community.If that is the case, more current information is needed to build the case.
 * Vince Young's experiences in childhood are valid, but cannot be taken as unchanging truths. Areas can change, sometimes for the better. If Hiram Clarke is still gang and drug infested,and everyone is dying from alcohol and drug dependancy related causes (as this article claims) then why Mr. Young chosen to move back to that neighborhood?
 * Can some information and pictures be added of "The Wareloft"- a LEED certified green building?

Chchiyen (talk) 19:48, 26 February 2014 (UTC)chchiyen WhisperToMe (talk) 05:34, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Can some more information be added to culture beyond a popular hairstyle. The culture and demographics of this place have changed a lot since the 1980s. Most of the population is now Hispanic.
 * Can current photos of the area be posted, especially public buildings like the post office, metro service center, and etc?
 * Chchiyen:
 * 1. It is true that link rot is a problem. I usually put in full citations, but if there are bare citations I can check for archives. A "bare citation" is a URL without information such as the article title, publisher, page number, date, etc. I checked the citations and they seem to have the full information. Yes, it is good to replace dead URLs so I can do that when possible.
 * Remember you can obtain copies of articles from RX (Resource Request) and from http://reddit.com/r/scholar
 * 2. Opinions can be posted on Wikipedia if they are attributed to someone. For instance, if Klineberg says something, it must be attributed to him. If Vince Young says something, it must be attributed to him.
 * 3. "If the area was so bare, how could it be as drug, and gang infested as Vince young, and some of the people cited" - The Cite magazine has written about a lot of Houston neighborhoods being that way: they are both sparsely developed and have "inner city/low income" issues. The Cite magazine used the term "rurban" and used it to refer to Acres Homes and a few other neighborhoods. See "The Rurban Horseshoe"
 * 4. It is true that a neighborhood's character can change from one year to another. That's why I make sure a date comes with attributions. The statements by Vince Young for instance should have dates attached. That way, one can see it may be true in say 2005 but it may not be true in 2015.
 * 5. If there is a source that talks about Hiram Clarke culture in 2014 I can add information about that. The reason why it only talks about the 1980s is because I haven't found published sources for other eras.
 * 6. You are more than welcome to contribute these photos. You can upload them to the Wikimedia Commons.
 * 7. Do you know of any reliable published sources about "The Wareloft" ? If so I may be able to write about it.
 * Thank you,
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 05:34, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Concerning "The Wareloft": please do not not publish the address in your article for privacy reasons and do not include any photos taken from the street for security purposes.

I have contacted the owners and I have their permission to write about this residence, but only pertaining to design, construction and LEED status. I assured them that no personal data would be included (especially no address and photos from street view). They are demonstrating their commitment to live lightly on the Earth with this homestead, which is a United States Green Building Council (USGBC) Certified LEED Silver and the land is a Certified Wildlife Sanctuary by the National Wildlife Federation. This is the link to the article that was published in Houston House & Home magazine:

http://www.vdocshop.com/doc/HoustonHouseHome/0409_houhh/2009040302/36.html#36 I also obtained permission from Environment Associates (The architects who designed the building) to upload images from their website into the Wikimedia commons. (They have permission from their photographer to use the images in any way they deem fit). I am still trying to figure out how to upload the images, so you are more than welcome to do it on my behalf or give me quick instructions (I'll need them for other images of public buildings). Photographs can be found on the Environment Associates website, just look for “Wareloft”: www.EnvironmentAssoc.com -Go to the bottom of page and click on "Projects" link. -Then click on "Houston's Cost efficient Green Home" link.

I am still trying to find published sources for "culture", and other relevant information.

3. Thanks for the very insightful response (number 3 above). I found the article about "rural-urban" communities very interesting. Chchiyen (talk) 01:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)chchiyen


 * You are welcome. Regarding the WareLoft's request not to post the address in the article - usually a street address is not a part of the article body itself but one can "cite" an address, and in some infoboxes I have seen addresses posted. You are welcome to follow their request not to have a photo of the development from the street taken, but keep in mind another Wikipedian can easily photograph it himself/herself. If it's done from the street, public property, and/or a third party property AFAIK there is nothing that WareLoft can do to stop it (Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer). Because the United States has freedom of panorama for buildings there is no way the architect can claim copyright over the photos. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:42, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/SchoolBoundaryMaps/redES.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120214223536/http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/schoolboundarymaps/DowlingMS.pdf to http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/schoolboundarymaps/DowlingMS.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930215943/http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/schoolboundarymaps/MadisonHS.pdf to http://dept.houstonisd.org/ab/schoolboundarymaps/MadisonHS.pdf

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Block book maps
For Pamela Heights: http://books.tax.hctx.net/v089/AE1997_89_0068.jpg WhisperToMe (talk) 19:16, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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