Talk:Hispanic Admirals in the United States Navy/ Archive 1

Where is Commodore Uriah P. Levy?
Uriah Levy was the greatest hero of the American Navy between the Revolution and the Civil War. He was a Sephardic -- Spanish -- Jew. Is his omission from this list deliberate? Until this omission is clarified, I believe that the entire article deserves a POV tag Scott Adler 22:14, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The Commodore rank in Levy's time, though the highest rank achievable at the time, was not equivalent to today's Admiral. The one-star rank was not established for the U.S. Navy until the Civil War. I'm sure absolutely no slight was intended. &mdash; User: (talk) 22:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Why don't you address this at Uriah P. Levy where there is absolutely no mention of any Spanish origin. Also there is absolutely no mention of any Spanish origin in any of the references. How about you cite that? 128.227.50.109 00:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed POV tag, There are no verifiable reliable sources which without a doubt can provide us with prove that Uriah Levy was a Hispanic. The rank of admiral as stated was created during the Civil War. Nor Levy or for that matter not even the father of the United States Navy, John Paul Jones, ever held that rank. This article is about Hispanic Admirals is all statements have been made in within Wikipedia's policy. All the information in the article have been verified as required. Tony the Marine 02:35, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Striking out some of my comments above. I understand that, though Levy did not have the title of Admiral, Commodore Levy was a Flag Officer. The article has been amended to include information about Commodore Levy. Thanks for calling attention to Levy and his achievements. &mdash; User: (talk) 20:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Can we verify that Levy was the first of Hispanic heritage to reach this rank? &mdash; User: (talk) 21:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Nope! I have rephrased the statement. Tony the Marine 22:43, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Levy's so-called "Hispanic" heritage is a type of Jewish heritage, and not particularly related to the modern American useage of the word Hispanic. Aside from his "general American" culture, his cultural and religious alliance was with the Jewish people, and not with Hispanic peoples. If he had been Hispanic (in the modern US sense), well great--but this is gross historical inaccuracy to simply add Sephardic Jews who acquired strong roots in Spain after the expulsion from from ancient Israel by the Romans. Jews are a national/spiritual group more than a cultural group. Levy was an Israelite with several hundred years of family root in Spain. The Hispanic culture in America, whether European Spanish or mixed Mexican, New Mexican, Puerto Riccan, etc. is also complex (and very interesting) and hardly one single ethnic group. This article is irrelevent "list-making" at a most unscholarly level. Millions of Americans are Scots, English, German, African, etc. mixes. How do you decide which "ethnic" list their more famous characters go on? BAD SCHOLARSHIP, this. No disrespect, but this is the sort of article that hurts Wikipedia's reputation. David Siegel, rockwell@bezeqint.net, Galilee, Israel. 88.153.90.231 06:44, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I would like to point out that Commodore Levy was not included in the original text of the article, however when the above user "Scott Adler" made the observation of Levy's name being omitted, I consulted with Rear Admrial Jay DeLoach of the Pentagon to determine if Levy was a Jew of Spanish descent. According to the Pentagon, Levy was Jewish by religion of Spanish descent since his family had their roots for centuries in Spain. Wikipedia is about reliable verifiable information and the fact that Levy's family had its roots for several hundred years in Spain and that he is a descendent of Spanish citizens can not be denied. If it is good enough for the Pentagon, it's good enough for us. Tony the Marine 07:46, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Plus I would like to add the official definition of the word Hispanic in accordance to the United States Government: Hispanic American is an ethnic term employed to categorize any citizen or resident of the United States, of any racial background, of any country, and of any religion, who has at least one ancestor from the people of Spain or is of non-Hispanic origin, but has an ancestor from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Central or South America, or some other Hispanic origin. The three largest Hispanic groups in the United States are the Mexican-Americans, Puerto Ricans and Cubans, see: *Hispanic Population of the United States Current Population Survey Definition and Background, United States Census Bureau, Population Division, Ethnic & Hispanic Statistics Branch. Tony the Marine 00:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

GA review
I am tempted to fail this article because I believe it to be original research. None of the sources specifically say anything about only Hispanic Admirals in the US Navy. However I have asked for a second opinion on this review.  T Rex  | talk  03:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * "Original Research" did not go into this article. Everything has it's verfifiable source as required by Wikipedia policy. I don't understand your statement "None of the sources specifically say anything about only Hispanic Admirals in the US Navy." This is an original article which I created. Look at the "Hispanic" surnames or the place of birth of those Hispanics who do not have Hispanic surnames. Tony the Marine 03:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * What I meant is that the topic "Hispanic Admirals in the United States Navy" is not in any of the sources. What I mean is better explained here.  T Rex  | talk  20:41, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * T Rex, I see what your concern is, but let me reasure you that this artcle is about "Hispanic Admirals" per se and is not advancing to make a point. When you gather different ideas or sources to advance another position, then that would be original research. However, this is a listing of various Hispanic admirals in a well organized article with the proper title. I always write about themes and subjects which you rarely find in the internet. To give you an example of my work, you can check these: Military history of Puerto Rico and Hispanic Americans in World War II. Hey I know that you are well intentioned and I take it as such. Tony the Marine 23:54, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Article is GA class; Not only does it have all free image, but it is well written. -- ( Cocoaguy ここがいい contribstalk) 01:02, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I am taking this to WP:GAR because I feel that Cocoaguy either didn't understand my concerns or ignored them when reviewing the article.  T Rex  | talk  19:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Article or list?
I have a small query. Is this an article or a list? The only actual encyclopedic content is the lead and the "Terminology" section. The rest just lists the name of Hispanic Admirals in the Navy. -- Ag ü  eybaná  02:37, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you Eddie for your comments. It is an article and I do not agree with you that the only encyclopedic information is the lead. The article itself does contain a list of Hispanic Admirals, but with the difference that after each name there is a paragraph which details the person's main career contributions unlike those other lists which would only contain name, rank or awards. Muchas Gracias. Tony the Marine 03:04, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
 * OK. Viva Puerto Rico libre -- Ag ü  eybaná  03:10, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

GA Delisted
This article seems to be largely a list of Hispanic Admirals. It is a good, well referenced list and should probably soon be nominated at featured list candidates for consideration as featured content. The GA process does not handle list article for many reasons, but the most importing is that a hypothetical Good List Criteria would NOT differ in any significant way from Featured List Criteria and thus it would be a redundant process. Please nominate the article at WP:FLC if you seek commendation for this article, people that comment there are very constructive in their comments and this article is not far from Featured status IMHO. I would probably be close to supporting it myself as such. For the record, the article was the subject of a reassessment discussion which was mistaken by dozens of users as a deletion discussion; the discussion was not terribly constructive, but it is archived here: Good article reassessment/Archive 30 for anyone who cares to read it all. --Jayron32| talk | contribs 02:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)