Talk:History of Adjara

Adjaria/Ajaria/Adjara
I replaced all instances of Adjaria and Ajara with Adjara, since that's the name used in the title of this article, and in Adjara. I have not, however, replaced "Adjarian" with "Adjaran", since I do not know if that is necessarily correct. If anyone thinks this should be changed as well, please feel free to change it. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 19:19, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Georgian kingdom
"Most international scholars agree that it is extremely difficult to judge the ethnic identity of the various population segments" - this is written in the article about the Kingdom of Abkhazia. You can see the source yourself - it looks rather reliable.

ps. I haven't been to Gagra this year... Alæxis¿question? 17:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The identity of the medieval kingdom cannot be judged by its ethnic segments, but rather by the culture and orientation by its ruling classes. --KoberTalk 17:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh, so what? Besides, I'm not so sure its culture was more Georgian than Greek in 8th century. Anyway, my point is that just calling it a Georgian state in this period is at best an oversimplification. The reader can always look at the article about the kingdom and learn about prevailing influences and languages of culture of the country. Alæxis¿question? 17:26, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * First of all, I've corrected "8th century" to the 9th. It was when the kingdom of Abkhazeti expanded southward. Second, the Georgian inscriptions and manuscripts in Abkhazia speak for themselves.--KoberTalk 17:29, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Didn't Leon II acquire Egrisi in 770s?? Alæxis¿question? 17:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Adjara is not Egrisi.--KoberTalk 17:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh.. So what was Egrisi was that time? According to that article Guria was one of the saeristavos created by Leon II. Did Guria mean the same as now or more then? Alæxis¿question? 17:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I feel that article needs to be seriously reworked. This division into saeristavos is recorded by the 18th century scholar Vakhushti and is largely a back-projection of the latter-day subdivision of the kingdom. saeristavo is a purely Georgian word, btw. What we noew call Adjara is composed of Lower Guria, Adjara proper, and northern Lazeti. --KoberTalk 18:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, now I see. But I'm now interested what did Leon add to the kingdom in the end of 8th century? Alæxis¿question? 18:30, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

The modern-day Abkhazia, Mingrelia and parts of Imereti (around Kutaisi).--KoberTalk 19:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Could you provide a source calling 9th century Abkhazian Kingdom a Georgian state? Alæxis¿question? 17:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "[...] west Georgian Kingdom of Abasgia, controlled by the Abkhazian dynasty..." Cyril Toumanoff, Studies in Christian Caucasian History, p. 24. Georgetown University Press, 1963.
 * "[Leon...] founded the new West Georgian Monarchy of Abasgia." Ibid, p. 256.
 * "Although the emergence of the West Georgian Abkhazian kingdom formed the beginning of the Georgian-Abkhazian interrelationship (the Georgian alphabet already started to spread here in the IX century), much more tangible are the results of the centuries-old Abkhazo-Mingrelian interference..." Georgi Klimov, Problems of Caucasian area linguistics, p. 127. in: Mario Alinei, Nils Arhammar (1986), Aspects of Language.
 * "By the middle of the ninth century, the kingdom of Abkhazeti in western Georgia had emerged as a more powerful political authority..." Ronald Grigor Suny, The Making of the Georgian Nation, p. 30.
 * Enough? Pitty that I don't currently have Vladimir Minorsky's brilliant account of the early years of the Abasgian monarchy at hand. --KoberTalk 18:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Violation
How did Russia violate the timetable of the Istanbul commitments?? Alæxis¿question? 17:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It did, but does the article mention the word "violation"?--KoberTalk 17:50, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, apparently I haven't looked at the new version of yours (only at your edit summary :)). Alæxis¿question? 17:54, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

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