Talk:History of France/Archive 1

Material to be incorporated
The page France: Wars of Religion/Bourbon Dynasty needs to be incorporated into this one -- or maybe kept as a page that gives more detail on a specific era of the history. -- Tarquin 14:27, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Le drapeau
The flag at the top of the series... Is it really nessecary? Would anyone mind if I took it off? Since of course the tricolor hasn't been the French flag thoughout all of history it seems pointless and visually distracting to have it run throughout the series. --Alex S 05:41, 7 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * I agree with the removal of the flag. olivier 07:39, Mar 12, 2004 (UTC)

History of Paris
Just to let you all know, I'm working on a separate History of Paris (currently it's just a redirect to Paris and the potted history in that article). Should be done by the weekend, hopefully. -- ChrisO 17:24, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)

French Wars of Religion
I don't know how to insert this section into the "History of France" series, though I've added the table to the article French Wars of Religion. Some more competent help is needed! (It should follw Medieval France and precede Anmcien regime) --Wetman 01:22, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Improvement Drive
The article Napoleonic Wars has been listed to be improved on This week's improvement drive. You can add your vote there if you would like to support the article.--Fenice 06:42, 4 August 2005 (UTC)Fenice 06:29, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Geography, Demographics, etc.
I put sections on the Middle Ages, Early Modern, 19th century and Modern times subpages with demographics, geography (they still need good maps), and language. It would be great if someone could add sections on industrial development, mercantile system, money, farming and the like. Speaking of which, the Economic history of France page is in sad sad shape. Suggestions? As for maps, what would be most helpful would be maps for the ancien regime showing different regions (with dates of annexation), parlements, church divisions, taxes, etc. -- NYArtsnWords 22:52,wwwwww September 2005 (UTC)

Précis?
Might it not be advisable to have a short summary of each particular sub-section of French history before the links in each section? Hopefully we can reach a consensus on this issue and then make any changes agreed upon. -- Jdhowens90 18:16, 18 September 2005 (UTC) NYArtsnWords A "short summary" can be found in the overview articles France in the Middle Ages, Early Modern France, etc., which themselves send you to "main" articles on the relevant topics. I don't think we need to have even shorter "short summaries" on the main History of France page. -- NYArtsnWords 22:57, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Nearly every post-celtic history I've ever run across on France begins with Clovis and I'm sure there is a good reason for that but as far as I can ascertain its because he married a roman catholic which really seems more a logical starting point for a history of france  And the Catholic Church . Given the political and religious role France goes on to play from that point I'll gladly admit it is the lion's share of what is relevant but its not really comprehensive is it? I'm sure there's little to no native record of events from 51BC to Clovis as well however there are hints of greater knowledge even in this article. Maybe I'm pressing the case for inclusion of minutiae unjustifiably but I hope it is a constructive request for more information. I'll just leave this as is for the communities discussion and discretion and see what else I can come up with. -- xiaou

Related image may be deleted
Map of Gaul tribes - Image:Map Gaul.gif, original uploader is inactive.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 18:33, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Sections in sub articles
I was reading the article France in the Middle Ages, and thought the order of the sections was inadequate and modified said order. It was reverted by someone pointing out it was not consistant with other sub articles of the history of france and that discussion should take place first (See Talk:France in the Middle Ages).

The articles concerned : France in the Middle Ages, Early Modern France, France in the nineteenth century, France in the twentieth century. Each has a section with "geography", "demographics" and "language/identity" sub sections and a "historical overview" section in that order. I suggest inverting sections so that "historical overview" goes first. The rationale:
 * These are historical articles, considerations about geography, demographics, or french identity are of secondary importance.
 * Those sub sections refer to historical events addressed later in the article in the historical overview, making the articles confusing.

Any comment welcome. Equendil Talk 20:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * As I said on Talk:France in the Middle Ages (I am the "someone" in question), I personally see the value of these geo/demo/lang sections being first (for full disclosure, I am also the one who wrote all those sections when we split History of France into the subpages, so clearly I am biased), for they "set the stage" and give necessary preliminary information for the historical overviews that follow, but others may disagree. I'd like to see what the other editors to the History of France pages have to say. --NYArtsnWords 21:59, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly neutral on this. My personal view of history is that geography, demographics, and economics are the central factors in how the narrative of history unfolds, and thus presenting a summary of them prior to the narrative is useful. However, I can also understand the other view, and most of our readers will be coming to these articles for the historical overview.- SimonP 23:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Leaning (slightly) towards having geo/dem/lang first as the article seems to flow better --Astrokey 44 00:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't contributed, but I'm with the Braudelians above. I think it's better the way it is, and I will be stealing the layout for my own efforts ! Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Images
This article has way too many images. They make it look disjointed and out of shape almost. I don't want to be the one to remove any images because I'm not sure which to eliminate and which to keep. However, I more than encourage anyone willing to clean this article up a bit to take some of these images out.UberCryxic 21:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I took some out... feel free to put some back in if you think I took out too much... --NYArtsnWords 00:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Seventh Republic
I hope something on the seventh republic can be added soon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alec - U.K. (talk • contribs) on 20 October 2006

Espace Plantagenet
I expanded the very short article about the Espace Plantagenet to a (certainly too) big one. Although it has been more commonly associated with the History of England it is also very relevant to the History of France. Do you think it should be added in the list below the Capetian Dynasty part? I think it should personnaly.

Matthieu 00:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Matthieu - I don't see why you shouldn't go ahead ahead and add it to the revelent section in the relevent sub page (France in the Middle Ages) and perhaps as a wikilink in the Capetian section, but I wouldn't add it to the Fr hist template.- NYArtsnWords 01:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Done Matthieu 10:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Infobox Former Country
People have been putting on the regime artcles. Could editors please verify these templates for their accuracy. For example, I noticed that the map for Vichy France only indicated the unoccupied zone, but called it the "territory of Vichy France". In addition, they have chosen the article Ancien Régime in France as a de facto stand in for pre-Revolutionary France up to 843, whereas that article is far more specific (14th - 18th centuries, political and social structures). The Bourbon, Valois and Capetian House articles don't seem suitable for this template either. Any suggestions? --NYArtsnWords 16:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Belle époque material
I removed the following material added by 60.242.166.182 on March 23, 2007:


 * At the beginning of the 20th Century in 1900, France had the largest area, population, and gross imperial product in all of Europe, excluding Russia. It had the second largest economy, gross imperial product, and industrial output in the world, after the United States. It was the fifth most highly populated independent country in the world, after China, the United States, Russia, and Brazil. Its colonial empire was the second biggest in the world, after the British Empire and before Russia.


 * During the Belle Epoque, in Europe, France had the largest army, after Russia, and the largest navy, after Britain. Its navy had many large and modern battleships, including 25 dreadnoughts. Its land was fertile and very productive of wheat, wine, and cattle. Its manufacturing industries, mainly of steel-making, coal-mining, textiles, and food processing, were one of the most largest and powerful in the world. It was the number one tourist destination in the world, with a large merchant marine. It was highly urbanized, with more than 80 percent of its people living in cities. Not only was it highly industrialized and urbanized, but it also was known as as socially progressive country and a "workers' paradise". Trade unions were very strong and influential. It had one of the highest life expectancies in the world, with males at 70 and females at 74. Education was compulsory up to 15 years.


 * In the Belle Epoque, France was one of the first countries in the world to let all men have the right to vote, in 1871. It was one of the earliest countries to give women the right to vote, in 1898. In 1905, it granted suffrage to Blacks, Asians, and Jews. It had also introduced many socially progressive reforms such as the basic wage, welfare, pensions, and the baby bonus. Compared to neighbouring countries, workers were much better treated there.


 * France was a deeply Christian and religious country. Christianity was the official, legal, and state religion in France up until 1905. Christian and biblical doctrine was a compulsory subject in public schools. Things like France's Christian heritage, Christian family values, and divine creation were taught in public schools. Bible reading and prayers were held every morning in school. The French government gave funding and subsidies to Christian churches, religious organizations, and private schools. Parliament opened each day with prayers. Abortion, birth control, homosexuality, pornography, prostitution, gambling, and divorce were all banned. Over 80 percent of France's people were Christians. The government had a Department of Christian Affairs and special religious courts.


 * Religious conflicts in Vietnam between Emperor Tự Đức and the Christian community brought the region to the attention of the French government. Nguyễn Truong To, a Christian, tried to convince the Vietnamese Emperor that persecuting Christians was political suicide but Tự Đức did not listen, thinking France was too concerned with the European theater. The French forces landed in Vietnam and did not suffer very much from Vietnamese attacks, climate and diseases were the major concerns, and French rule over Annam and Tonkin was recognised in the Treaty of Hué in 1883. The possible French conquest of Vietnam caused the Chinese Emperor to assist the Vietnamese ruler and this turned into the Sino-French War (1884-1885) and the French navy obliterated the Chinese one at Foochow. This war then confirmed French rule over Indochina.

Much of this material is faulty and the user has been adding this since 11 March 2007 to the articles Belle Époque, French Third Republic and Economic history of France. If editors see any material that they find relevant and verifiable, feel free to add it back into the text of the article. -- NYArtsnWords 06:23, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

France in the Middle-Age, minor conclusion
I added the ending part of that section, these notes are quite important for the history of France but were dramaticaly missing. Matthieu 01:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Double chapters
Revolution, Napoleon and a few others are present twice, I'm removing the double chapters Matthieu 06:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Gilles De Rais
I don't think that Gilles De Rais has much importance in french history and should be removed. He doesn't seem to have effected anything besides allegedly murdering 100s of children and commanding a few soldiers - which is terrible but not relevant to the article. any opinions? 124.176.28.111 02:48, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

French people - vote for pictures
Hello. You all may be interested in one of the discussions going on about the French people article regarding the pictures in the infobox: you are now all invited to participate in the vote for the French personalities to be included in the French people infobox. Regards! The Ogre (talk) 21:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:De-gaulle-radio.jpg
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 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

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In English please?
Most of this article needs rewriting to make it comprehensible to native speakers of English. I quote: "The Congress of Vienna, due to a Conservative Order, tried to undo the political changes from to the wars thus attempting to save peace." - I get the general gist but "from to the wars" doesn't make any sense to me. This is just one example, most of the article is written in clearly non-native-speaker English and is very difficult to read if you happen not to be French (if I were, I would read the French version). Could someone attempt to do something about it please? HairyDan 22:33, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Meh, French people speak a better English than English-speakers - or anyone else - anyway. It's fine like it is. Wilhelmina Will (talk) 23:30, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a stupid, useless and untrue comment. And it even comes attached to a name. I would be ashamed to have my name attached to such nonsense.


 * On another note, we need some serious spell and grammar checking on this article. Take the following phrase: "However and despite the fact the Capetians kings often treated other princes more as enemies and allies than subordonates his royal title was often recognised yet not often respected." Notice "subordonates", and the lack of at least a few commas to make this phrase clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.63.5.230 (talk) 15:43, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism needs to be corrected.
Right on the first paragraph: "regime articles deal with the specific bum cheacks then attacked the world and governmental regimes in France."

Henry VI
The information is not questionable.Only the actual power was questionable.In practical power terms there was 2 disputesd kings.--HENRY V OF ENGLAND (talk) 18:18, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm concerned with making the Treaty of Troyes appears as iron-clad. The Treaty was disputed. GoodDay (talk) 13:52, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

query on Rousseau and Durkheim
If there is any editor watching this page who has some expertise on French social theorists, espeically Roussau and Durkheim, could you contact me? Thanks, Slrubenstein  |  Talk 15:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

"Grand Siècle"
Article should make some mention of this term, which is in common usage in French historiography. Drutt (talk) 01:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Wanting to know more on French colonies
French colnies should have a more prominaint place in article.Didnt Algeria first was a colony then a "department" of Francemerci "Andre'BonJourMoi (talk) 20:28, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Charlemagne, deleted text
I deleted the following text: "With Charlemagne German influences become paramount in France. ". There cannot have been any German influence in France 1200 years before the creation of Germany. An 1881 book on German ethnology is not a reliable source. 193.132.242.1 (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Teutonic influences? --65.95.204.18 (talk) 23:55, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

St. Louis the Book Burner
I took the reference from the Wikipedia article on St. Louis, which was a 2007 reference to source material. 192.12.88.48 (talk) 05:15, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Adolphe Thiers
Can #something# be done about the article - a direct copy of the rather biased 19th century Encyclopedia Britannica article. Surely there is something more recent? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:53, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

File:Council of Four Versailles.jpg Nominated for Deletion
france was great — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.131.204 (talk) 20:00, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Paris Commune
In the factionalism section of the French Revolution, it says "The Girondins did not tolerate the massacres, but neither the Montagnards of the Legislative Assembly nor the Paris Commune took any action to stop or condemn the killings." The hyperlink for Paris Commune, sure enough, links to the Paris Commune of 1871, nearly a hundred years after this business with the Girondins and Montagnards. If there was something else called the Paris Commune that existed at the time, the hyperlink should be changed to reflect that, otherwise I don't think it's necessary to mention that the Paris Commune took no action to condemn the massacres of the Terrors, since it was some 90 years too late to do so. Fhqwgads (talk) 13:14, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Paris Commune has a hatnote for Paris Commune (French Revolution) - now linked here. Johnbod (talk) 17:45, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
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