Talk:History of Kerala

Raccoonvs (talk) 00:39, 9 June 2011 (UTC) Last paragraph of the article states

Untitled
"Furthermore, a substantial proportion of Mappilas numbering between 3 and 4 million people have left Kerala to seek employment in the Middle East, especially in Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates. Remittances from these expatriate communities makes Kerala one of the main contributors of foreign exchange to Indian economy."

I have not been able to find any statistic to support this claim. The number of 3-4 million is questionable as i found a site mentioning 2.5 million diaspora from Kerala.

Secondly, It is not only the Mappilass, but a lot of Keralites belonging to other religions also are working overseas and i dont think there is any reliable statistic about the expatriate population from Kerala segregated on the basis of religion.

Please provide link to support this claim.00:39, 9 June 2011 (UTC)Raccoonvs (talk)

Regarding the section titled "Overseas contact"
I have a few issues with this section:
 * Jewish people, fleeing persecution in their homeland, migrated to Kerala in the early centuries.
 * We have got to clearly define what homeland is being referred to here and what the early centuries are.homeland is refereed to "Jerusalem " & early centuries to period of King Solomon --117.199.5.100 (talk) 07:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Arab merchants founded Kerala's early Muslim community, the Mappilas, in the 8th century.
 * Arab merchants very likely had settlements in Kerala well before they became Muslim.Yes, their descents belong Syrian Christians along with Jewish migrants --117.199.5.100 (talk) 07:40, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * According to some the history of Christianity in Kerala dates back to the arrival of St. Thomas the Apostle at Kodungallur in A.D. 52.
 * This is folklore. Besides we seem to be jumping back in time. This should be mentioned before the arrival of Islam to Kerala to retain chronological order.


 * For a long time this was disputed. However in 2002 The British researcher William Dalrymple travelled across the Arabian Sea to Kerala in a boat similar to those mentioned in ancient Jewish and Roman texts and showed how the Nasrani-Jewish people had travelled to Kodungalloor. He followed the same course as mentioned in the Acts of Thomas, a copy of which survives in a monastery on Mount Sinai. The possibility of such a journey is not disputed. Pliny records Muziris(Kodungallur) as the most important sea-port on India's West Coast around the start of the Christian Era. Lionel Casson discusses the sailing patterns of ships via the Red Sea to Kodungallur in his 1988 analysis of Periplus of the Erythraean Sea. What is disputed is whether the Apostle really did land in Kerala and proselytize. We do have Syrian Malabar folklore that claim this. We also have some East Christian writings that claim the Apostle was buried on India's East Coast.


 * A Christian-Jewish community was later established by a contingent of Jewish Nasranis led by Knai Thoma (Thomas of Cana) who arrived in 345. Cheraman Perumal, the then king of Malabar issued a proclamation giving land and privileges to the Knanaya Yehudeya(Jewish)-Nasranis on copper plates on a Saturday in March (Kumbham 29), 345. This was followed by another round of migration from Syria recorded in the Tharisappally records from around the 8th century. The growth of the Christian and Muslim communities is not captured by references to these specific migrations. I feel we will have to beef it up with accounts of settlements and trading-outposasasasts these merchants were allowed to build as well as their elevation in the social heirarchy in the various Keralite kingdoms. No,this migrants have influence only the coastal parts & they have some social hierarchy but negligible,they  got social influence by past 500 years --Sinud3 (talk) 07:49, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Comments?(Veliath 16:36, 31 January 2006 (UTC))
 * When the Portuguese arrived in the early 1500s, they tried to impose Roman Catholicism on the original Syrian-Christian (Nasrani) people. A section of Nasranis (also called Syrian-Christians in Kerala) resisted the conversion attempts of the Portuguese to bring them under Romans or the Pope with Latin rite, and remained faithful to ancient Hebrew-Jewish traditions using original Syriac/Aramaic language for their liturgy. This is overly simplistic and false. The Synod of Diamper forced the Nasranis into communion with Rome. Following this Bishop Menezes had the Inquisition brought in and went Church by Church Romanizing parishes. When Portugese hegemony over Kerala waned, the Nasranis started to rebel againt Roman control. The Incident of the Leaning Cross is among the mroe famous acts of rebillion. After such incidents became widespread various Churches around West Asia and the Roman Catholic Church itself sent emissaries to bring the parishes into communion with them. This eventually resulted in the various Syrian Christian denominations of Kerala. British hegemony created the Protestant Syrian Christian denominations of the Marthomites and the CSI.

BCE-CE Vs BC-AD
Since BC ("Before Christ") and AD ("Anno Domini", "In the year of the Lord") represent a Christian Point of View, i have replaced it with their secularized versions ie. BCE ("Before Common Era") and CE ("Common Era") in the entire length of this article keeping in tone with Wikipedia's NPOV policy. Before any reverts to this pls discuss in here. Thanks. Arjun (talk) 18:31, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned references in History of Kerala
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of History of Kerala's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Sharma": From Adi Shankara:  From Samkhya:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 15:24, 11 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Done.  AshLey  Msg 13:00, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

regarding section "Ancient religions and ethnic groups"
This section mentions that nambudiris in Kerala are originally the brahmins from Karnataka. This is probably not true since there are several other stories about the origin of nambudiri brahmins. Sreedhara menon attributes their origin to people who fled from Godavari basin while some others suggests that nambudiris are brahmins who came from north India with the invaders. So it will be in best interest to delete this line altogether.

The article mentions establishment of 32 brahmin settlements in kerala towards the end of 8th C. This notion of 'Brahmin gramas' appears to be taken from the 17th C book 'Keralolpathi'. Most of the modern kerala historians rejects the authenticity of this book and hence the story of 32 'Brahmin gramas' is likely to be not true.

The last line seems to implicitly suggest that Malayalam language originated by Sanskritisation of Tamil under the influence of nambudiris. The origin of Malayalam language is a heavily debated topic. The earlier works like 'Keralapaaniniyam' concurs with this argument but later scholars differ. Parameswaran Nair, in his book on Malayalam Literature convincingly argues that Malayalam and Tamil are two daughter languages to the same primitive Dravidian language with Malayalam being more closer to the original. The influence of sanskrit was only minimal and hence Malayalam had an independent identity even before the so called process of Sanskritisation. --James.puthenpurackal (talk) 14:17, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

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Spice Trade and Sumerian Records
This line "Kerala was a major spice exporter as early as 3000 BCE, according to Sumerian records." uses the refers to p. 79 of "Striving for sustainability, environmental stress and democratic initiatives in Kerala". But if you check that page in that book, there it only just says, "Kerala's fabled spice trade--itself based in part in the rich micro-ecozone variability--goes back possibility to the Sumer (Babylonia)of 3000BC." And there is no reference or source mentioned for that. I don't this is sufficient evidence for the claim mentioned above. Prophetoffrivolity (talk) 13:58, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Prophetoffrivolity. There is very thin evidence for spice trade that goes that far. I think that line should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A452:8EAA:1:6052:B468:7439:3B42 (talk) 19:47, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

History
Chalk out the entire root of Britishers beginning from the coast of Kerala where they landed to and when they became rulers 103.252.25.67 (talk) 14:04, 18 June 2022 (UTC)