Talk:History of Shanghai

Article Problems
Most of the article reads like it was written by an official Chinese government propaganda body. 79.207.157.226 (talk) 19:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The main problem with this article is that there are too many superfluous details. Much of the content is obscured by subjective or unverifiable generalizations.  The article is really quite tedious and confusing.  The History of Beijing article, by comparison, is streamlined and readable.  And, Beijing is actually an older city.  The basic layout of this article seems workable, but I think a serious re-write of each section is necessary. winstonho0805 (talk) 06:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * On your first point: no. Generalizations ≠ details, and details are good.
 * Agreed. This article is terrible, and really could benefit from a complete ground up rewrite. Brycen (talk) 06:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)


 * The main problem is the unsourced and biased generalizing, followed closely by its lousy structure. I think it repeats its mildly insane argument about the Qing not having a government – admittedly, we still need an article on the taotais, but we've got 'em on the viceroy of Liangjiang, governor of Jiangsu, and even dibaos – and Shanghai being ruled by its native area clubs about three times. — LlywelynII  19:31, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

The word "Shanghailander" is used in this article, without link or definition. The proper use of this term would be to refer to British nationals who had adopted Shanghai as their home. For clarity, if that is the intended meaning is this article, perhaps it should be spelled out rather than using an esoteric term that almost nobody would understand. If, on the other hand, the term was being used (incorrectly) to indicate Chinese Shanghai residents, then that should be spelled out, or the term should be changed to the proper term, "Shanghainese people." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.9.25 (talk) 02:45, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
 * It wasn't merely the Brits, but you're right that it only sloppily applied to the Zanghaening themselves. — LlywelynII  16:35, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Rewrite
I attemptted to rewrite the first part of this article, up through the Chinese society section. It's hard to place the events in this article on a timeline, thus I tried to mimick other "History of Cities" pages in China and use the Dynasty framework. It was problematic at the end of the Quing Dynasty, which is relatively where I stopped.

If anyone has any better ideas, please go for it. I may try to finish rewriting this article in a few days. Judging by the grammar mistakes, my guess is that the article was written by a chinese government official, as someone had suggested earlier.&#39;&#39;&#39;Shawn&#39;&#39;&#39; (talk) 09:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There's still many non-specific time indicators that need to be edited out. For example, in the "Early Era" section has "which has only been recently irrigated" (confusing - was this pre-Ming or modern?); the "Ming dynasty" section starts with the word "later". I wouldn't mind helping, if you're amenable? Adevish (talk) 08:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Irrigation: Who needs it?
I went through the Early Era section and removed the "irrigation" references. They add nothing to the section and are confusing and unnecessary. We can add them in later if we find out they are necessary. I have this article on my watch list and will continue to work through the sections. Doctorfun (talk) 18:59, 1 January 2009 (UTC) (cleanup)
 * Eh, it's pretty necessary. The place used to be a city of canals, so it's important to show when they came in and when they got filled in and turned into the mass of QQs and Audis we now all know and love. — LlywelynII  19:24, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Article expansion
For interested editors helping out with the Shanghai improvements, I've been working on some of the railroad pages (a start on the Songhu Railway and a future article in the Woosung Road namespace) and stumbled across this site. It's a former version of the bizarre but lovely labor of love at Astor House Hotel (Shanghai) (apparently China's first western hotel) and its affiliate pages. There's a mass of images and information over there (>250k) about the Shanghailanders and their times. — LlywelynII  16:37, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Maps
I'll add one from the Astor House Hotel article, but the article needs more, ideally one every 50 years or so since 1800. Shanghai grew quickly and changed repeatedly over the years, with entire districts of streets and places being renamed after 1949. — LlywelynII  16:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Historical Indigenous population and migration to Shanghai
Publications of Professor Hui LĬ

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/publication.htm

47[D11] Yang Jun, Li Hui, Jin Jian-Zhong, Jin Li, Lu Da-Ru (2004) Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities 13(1):60-69. ◙     [PDF fulltext ]  [Abstract]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D11.pdf

46[D12] Li Hui (2004) The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei) 13:168-179. [PDF fulltext ] [Abstract]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D12.pdf

http://www.comonca.org.cn/LH/Documents/D12.pdf

35[D10] Li Hui, Xu Li-Qun, Zhou Zhen-He, Zhang Ling-Jun, Jin Jian-Zhong, Lu Da-Ru, Jin Li (2003) Historical Immigrations to Shanghai Suburb Based on Principal Component Analysis on Physical Characters and Surnames. J Genet Mol Biol 14(4):233-242. [PDF fulltext] [Abstract]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D10.pdf

http://comonca.org.cn/LH/Documents/D10.pdf

Rajmaan (talk) 03:30, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/1publication2.htm

[D11] 杨俊,李辉,金建中,金力,卢大儒 (2004) 上海原住民的Y染色体遗传分析. 中央民族大学学报(自然科学版) 13(1):60-69. Yang J, Li H, Jin JZ, Jin L, Lu DR (2004) Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities 13(1):60-69. [PDF全文下载] [摘要] http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D11.pdf

[D12] 李辉 (2004) 上海历史上的民族变迁. 国立国父纪念馆馆刊(台北) 13:168-179. Li Hui (2004) The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei) 13:168-179. [PDF全文下载] [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D12.pdf

[D10] Li H, Xu LQ, Zhou ZH, Zhang LJ, Jin JZ, LU DR, Jin L (2003) Historical Immigrations to Shanghai Suburb Based on Pricipal Component Analysis on Physical Characters and Surnames. J Genet Mol Biol 14(4):233-242. [PDF全文下载] [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/doc/D10.pdf

http://plaza.ufl.edu/lqxu/blyshlee/pubzh.htm

[D10] Li H, Xu LQ, Zhou ZH, Zhang LJ, Jin JZ, LU DR, Jin L. Historical Immigrations to Shanghai Suburb Based on Pricipal Component Analysis on Physical Characters and Surnames. Journal of Genetics and Molecular Biology,2003, 14(4):233-242. [PDF�ļ�] [D11] �,����,������,����,¬����.�Ϻ�ԭס����YȾɫ���Ŵ�����. ����������ѧѧ��(��Ȼ��ѧ��).2004,13(1):60-69. Yang J, Li H, Jin JZ, Jin L, Lu DR. Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities.2004, 13(1):60-69. http://www.wanfangdata.com.cn/qikan/periodical.articles/zymzdxxb-zrkxb/zymz2004/0401/040111.htm

[D12] ����. �Ϻ���ʷ�ϵ�������Ǩ. �������������ݹݿ�(̨��),,2004,13:168-179. Li Hui. The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei),,2004,13:168-179. http://www.yatsen.gov.tw/chinese/publication/index.php?p_id=13                          [PDF�ļ�]

http://plaza.ufl.edu/lqxu/blyshlee/paper/D12.pdf

http://www.ranhaer.com/viewthread.php?action=printable&tid=13331

47[D11] 杨俊,李辉,金建中,金力,卢大儒 (2004) 上海原住民的Y染色体遗传分析. 中央民族大学学报(自然科学版) 13(1):60-69.

Yang J, Li H, Jin JZ, Jin L, Lu DR (2004) Genetics Analysis of Shanghai Aborigine with SNPs on Y Chromosome. Journal of the Central University for Nationalities 13(1):60-69.

[PDF全文下载] [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/Documents/D11.pdf

46[D12] 李辉 (2004) 上海历史上的民族变迁. 国立国父纪念馆馆刊(台北) 13:168-179.

Li Hui (2004) The Ethnic Vicissitude in the History of Shanghai. Journal of National Dr. Sun Yat-sen Memorial Hall(Taipei) 13:168-179.

[PDF全文下载] [摘要]

http://comonca.org.cn/lh/Documents/D12.pdf

Timeline of Shanghai
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 17:06, 19 May 2015 (UTC)