Talk:History of anime/Archive 1

Comment
I removed the previous text of Animation History: Japan (only a few days old) because it wasn't really relevant to the history of animation in Japan, although it might have had a place in an article about the popular perception of anime in the US. (Also, it looked as though it had been typed in from another source, possibly without permission.)

I'm not qualified to write a history of Japanese animation, but I listed a few important people and places in the hope of inspiring someone else.

-- BenRG 10:41, 19 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Signficant thingies
I've cut the list of "significant whatevers" from the article. We shouldn't have a list, we should have actual text on these subjects. I'm leaving it here, though, to keep track of a few of the things we still need to do.


 * Otomo Katsuhiro
 * Go Nagai
 * Mushi Pro
 * Studio Ghibli
 * Gainax
 * Ginga Tetsudo no Yoru ("Night on the Galactic Railroad")

-&#8472;yrop (talk) 01:37, Dec 31, 2004 (UTC)

To Do List
I need to put a to do list for other stuff added.
 * Expand pre war anime
 * Expand 1990s
 * Add information on the OVA.

--Neilworms 04:22, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I've added the todo template at the top of this talk page, and added your list to it. -&#8472;yrop (talk) 05:00, Jan 2, 2005 (UTC)


 * For 1990's, might as well make a cut off for the year 2000 and beyond in order to encapsulate the 1990's. KyuuA4 21:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

GA Failing
Please add references. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 16:08, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
 * What the hell are you talking about? It has a references secton! -- Ned Scott 06:58, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * There are still some statements marked [ citation needed], until that is fixed, this article can't be featured. At least, that's my opinion. Shinobu 15:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Mushi Bankruptcy
"During the 1970s, the Japanese film market shrunk due to competition from television. Mushi Productions went bankrupt"

As far as I can tell, there was television in Japan before that. What changed? Also, note that this makes it seem like competition with television killed Mushi, while actually the resignment of Tezuka, who took all the rights to his works with him caused Mushi to go bankrupt. Shinobu 10:11, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

1970s experimentation
"An example of this experimentation is with Isao Takahata's 1974 television series Heidi."

Isn't this a bad example considering that Takahata did not come from Mushi productions, but from Toei, after the flop of Hols? Shinobu 10:19, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Influences of Cutey Honey and nudity?
What are the influences of Cutey Honey and nudity in anime? KyuuA4 16:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Recent history
Wikipedia's strenght is usually good coverage of up-to-date history, yet this article seems to have little to say about most recent animes. This should be fixed, at the very least we should have some lists of anime per season, or such.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 02:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you mean like a list? Notable anime TV series listed by year, Notable anime movies listed by year It's expanding.  Benjwong 18:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

The earliest known anime
I've got a bad feeling, that this might be a hoax of some sort. I didn't find any information at the provided link and apart from that I don't think that a little animation (even if it's the first one on celluloid) has a great impact on the developement of animation in Japan, compared to the different versions of shadowplay. This is just on animation that has survived till now or has been restored to some degree. There should be many animations alike but they were destroyed, sold or just thrown away. -- User: StalkerAT 09.01.2006 12:00
 * For starters, the concept of animation began in the United States - or elsewhere. The origin of animation was not certainly in Japan.  Therefore, the "first anime" arrived after the invention of animation. KyuuA4 21:26, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Someone needs to change the title to History of Anime in Japan since this has no info but Japan. Anime was first produced in Europe NOT Japan and that should be noted. Irishgt 23:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The history stuff really takes time. El Apostle, in theory the very first animation ever is still a completely untouched article.  I cannot tell you how wide open this stuff is if you got the research capacity to take it.  This page is strictly Japanese stuff to my knowledge.  I am not so sure there is enough info globally to put it all together yet.  Benjwong 18:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Anime Conventions
These have been rather significant in the promotion of anime during the 1990's - particularly in the United States and eventually to the rest of the West. KyuuA4 17:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

New DVD release of 1920s silent anime
There seems to be a pretty significant and interesting DVD release coming up, here. Maybe it should be mentioned briefly. Esn 07:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip. Very interesting if it's going to be released. But it can't be mentioned in the article as something other than a reference because it would be advertising (and inappropriate). This section lacks references anyway [[image:smiley.svg|20px]] --StalkerAT 11:09, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Re-Arrange by Eras
Instead of by decade, this article will be more readable by "era". How do we define an "era"? Well, it should be based on the status of anime at the time. For example, the anime explosion into Western markets during the 1990's would be an example of the beginning of one.

In doing so, anime's history would be more logical and readable. While needs fixing, the History of the Chicago Bears had to be re-arranged into era's instead of by decade. This is in due part of trends extending into more than one decade. KyuuA4 17:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * basically a good idea, if done well. I see some problems nontheless: the latest developements aren't easy to call by name. Since the 1960s japanese animation splited in various directions. Best discernable are full and partial animation but there's also experimental animation (it's called manga eiga AFAIK), and now the whole field of Anime-influenced animation came to be. which eras would you discern? --StalkerAT 20:51, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. It was far easier modifying the history of a sports team by era.  For an art form, it certainly isn't so... definite.  I suppose - it'll require laying out the development process (or timelines) of anime and the anime industry itself.  Aside from an art form, anime is indeed a business, as companies profit from it.  Along with that, significant changes have occured in the industry; to mark those changes, well, that'll be the tricky part. KyuuA4 16:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that the different corporates would be good for nameing individual points of Anime evolution but not necessary a whole timeline. Some general directions of Anime are nevertheless visible for the historically interested Otaku. For discerning, are they supposed to take on new forms of animation techniques, new forms of aesthetic or a broader take on ideas and themes? --StalkerAT 10:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * In reply to bold. Exactly.  The bounds of "eras" are usually defined by changes in techniques, styles, etc.  For example, we can clearly notice the difference between a cel based series versus a computer aided series.  Of course, changes such as these are hardly abrupt, as some phasing between techniques occurs.  Other markers may include significant market changes, such as the 1990's when anime dramatically spread into the West. Therefore, tacking specific years/dates would not be necessary, although an approximation may suffice. KyuuA4 17:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't even think about changing it to eras, there is so little good literature on anime in the west that one cannot intelligently discern eras out of it. The only era that is commonly agreed upon is the 1980s being a sort of golden age, but even then there is much argumentation about it and little good research. Keep it as dates until such time as more heavily research literature comes out on the subject in english, or if someone can read japanese or even french and has a well researched source that defines such eras.--Neilworms 01:27, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Yamato ani.jpg
Image:Yamato ani.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 12:11, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Outline
Later on, I shall bring an outline. KyuuA4 17:51, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Text from Anime article
The batch of text was in the Anime beyond Japan section. KyuuA4 21:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Early anime in the United States
The United States saw its first exposure to anime in June of 1961, when Shônen Sarutobi Sasuke (Magic Boy) was released by MGM, followed a few weeks later by Hakuja den (Panda and the Magic Serpent, or The Tale of the White Serpent). Anime then got its running jump in September of 1963, when NBC syndicated a dubbed version of the Japanese series Astro Boy. Not counting such Japanese/American co-productions as The King Kong Show and Johnny Cypher in Dimension Zero, only seven more anime TV series were released in the United States in the 1960s. These were 8 Man (1965), Gigantor (1966), Kimba the White Lion (1966), Prince Planet (1966), Marine Boy (1966), The Amazing 3 (1967) and Speed Racer (1967). Speed Racer would be the last anime series released in the United States until 1978 when the 1972 series Kagaku ninja tai Gatchaman was adapted for American audiences as Battle of the Planets. Many anime series that made it to American television from the 1960s through the 1980s tended to be science fiction or action-oriented, such as Star Blazers (the English dub of Space Battleship Yamato) and Robotech and Voltron (both Americanized amalgamations of unrelated anime series cobbled together into a single story).

As the 1980s wore on, more anime series and films targeted at very young children also found their way to U.S. TV screens, often on Pay TV television channels or in syndication. Nickelodeon broadcast many mostly Canadian-made English dubs of anime films during its early years, including TV series such as Mysterious Cities of Gold, Adventures of the Little Koala, Belle and Sebastian, The Adventures of the Little Prince, Noozles, Maya the Bee, Grimm's Fairy Tale Classics, and The Littl' Bits, many of which were aired on "Nick Jr.", the network's block of programming for very young viewers. The Disney Channel broadcast both of the feature-length anime films starring Osamu Tezuka's famous unicorn character Unico, and CBN redubbed and broadcast its Bible-based anime TV series co-produced with Tatsunoko, Superbook and The Flying House. HBO also showed juvenile-targeted anime on occasion, including TV series such as Tales of Little Women, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, and Saban's Adventures of Pinocchio and feature films such as Gisaburo Sugii's 1974 Jack and the Beanstalk.

A great many anime films and feature-length TV series compilations were also released direct-to-video in the U.S., and were often available for rental at mainstream video stores. Some titles which were distributed in the U.S. in this fashion included Candy Candy, Captain Future, Angel, Serendipity the Pink Dragon, Taro the Dragon Boy, Robby the Rascal (Cybot Robotchi), and Ninja the Wonder Boy (Manga Sarutobi Sasuke).

For the most part, though, these TV series and films were not actively promoted as being of Japanese origin; in fact, many of them went so far as to remove most or all Japanese names from the credits except for credits to the animation studios. In the series themselves, character names were often changed and Japanese cultural references removed to make them more accessible to English-speaking audiences, such as Genshi being changed to Flint in Space-Time Detective Genshi-kun. In the late 1990s and early 2000s, this trend began to change as more openly Japanese works, such as Sailor Moon, Gundam Wing, Pokémon, Dragon Ball Z, Digimon, and Yu-Gi-Oh! achieved mainstream popularity on American television. Although many of these shows did undergo some kind of "Americanization" in the form of character name changes and edits for violence, language, and the occasional nudity, viewers were more aware of the shows' country of origin, which might perhaps pique their curiosity to seek out other works in a similar style.

Uncited References
The following references were listed in the article, but not used as direct citations. If possible, feel free to use these references as citations within the article text. KyuuA4 21:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Old References

 * Ettinger, Benjamin "Karisuma Animators"
 * Ettinger Benjamin "Toei Doga" (Part 2) Anipages Daily. 7/25/2004 and 7/26/2004.
 * Miyazaki, Hayao trans. Ryoko Toyama "About Japanese Animation"
 * Okada, Toshio et al. (2005), "Otaku Talk". Little Boy: The Arts of Japan's Exploding Subculture. Ed. Takashi Murakami. Japan Society and Yale University Press. ISBN 0-913304-57-3.
 * Sharp, Jasper "Pioneers of Japanese Animation at PIFan" Midnight Eye 9/25/2004
 * Kime, Chad. "American Anime: Blend or Bastardization?" EX Online Anime Magazine
 * Okada, Toshio et al. (2005), "Otaku Talk". Little Boy: The Arts of Japan's Exploding Subculture. Ed. Takashi Murakami. Japan Society and Yale University Press. ISBN 0-913304-57-3.
 * Sharp, Jasper "Pioneers of Japanese Animation at PIFan" Midnight Eye 9/25/2004
 * Kime, Chad. "American Anime: Blend or Bastardization?" EX Online Anime Magazine
 * Kime, Chad. "American Anime: Blend or Bastardization?" EX Online Anime Magazine

Fair use rationale for Image:Rahxephon1.jpg
Image:Rahxephon1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Cover-akira.jpg
The image Image:Cover-akira.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check


 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

The following images also have this problem:


 * File:Simon (Gurren Lagann).png
 * File:Code Geass - Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 - 06 069 0002.jpg
 * Image:ZGKamilleBidanSuit.jpg
 * Image:The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya.jpg
 * Image:KanedaProfilePic.jpg
 * Image:G ExiaHD.jpg

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --04:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Early Anime section: Namakura Katana
Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/28/2201373.htm

"One of the animations, entitled Namakura Katana (An Obtuse Sword), is believed to be the oldest Japanese animation film still in existence. A comedy, the film relates the story of a samurai warrior who is tricked into buying a dull-edged sword. He tries to attack passers-by so as to examine the sword, but lower-class townspeople fight back and knock him down."
 * 1917 is kinda early. Junichi Kouchi is already mentioned in the article --Yamavu (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2008 (UTC)