Talk:History of bread

Article
The ordinary way to begin an article that fits within a broader article, encyclopedia-fashion, is to cut and paste the existing sub-section and expand it. Perhaps the editor who listed this new article for deletion within ten minutes of my beginning it, will recover their damaged reputation for collegial courtesy, by making a summary of the finished version, and inserting that at Bread, which is the final step in this commonplace process, often omitted by less scrupulous editors. I shall leave a request later at their Talkpage. --Wetman (talk) 00:01, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, I've expanded it by several referenced statements from 68 hundred something to 91 hundred something. History of Bread is an encyclopedia subject, ready for your further expansion.--Wetman (talk) 00:58, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Since neither that editor nor you reduced the History section at Bread to a summary, I have now done so. Pais (talk) 12:21, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Changed "no time bread" to "quick bread"
I work in a bakery and breads that use chemical leavens are know traditionally as quick breads. Although "no time" in essence communicates the same idea, quick is more commonly recognized and does so in a simpler vernacular.

Mshenay (talk) 14:15, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Pyler citation
Currently, this article requests an expansion of the Pyler citation, and this article references page 703 of that work. The Bread article has a full citation for Pyler in Bibliography, but, there are several editions of that work, and thus the particular page number where given information occurs may vary from edition to edition. I do not have a copy to check. Gzuufy (talk) 15:12, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Should the *non fermenting* "breads" (chapati, tortilla etc.) be called "breads" ?
After all, non fermenting breads are so different than fermenting ones. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.61.62.246 (talk) 05:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Modern Era
Modified this section to make reference to the Chorleywood process more neutral. I understand that for some people mechanization is always thought of as an advance but I don't see why, especially if taste and nutrition are sacrificed for profit and greater availability. seaniz (talk) 17:41, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I always wonder
Why are modern Western breads are leavened like soft "pillows"? Is there a historical basis on this? This article never mentions deeply about the leavening. Komitsuki (talk) 18:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Seriously?
"Descendants of these early flatbreads are still commonly made from various grains in many parts of the world" Are we saying that bread still exists today? Shouldn't a source be cited or something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:0:989:1D7:E6CC:8978:6798 (talk) 22:21, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Over-citing
There are now 6 citations for one simple fact, that bread was big in Ancient Egypt. This is overkill, made worse by the fact that several are from Samuel Delwen. I suggest we remove all the older refs, such as his doctoral thesis: one or two sources would be fine for this detail. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:34, 17 April 2017 (UTC)


 * I see what you mean. I believe there is a lot more to be said about breadmaking in Ancient Egypt than one sentence.  My understanding is that Egypt is the earliest known location for making leavened bread.  In comparison there are three paragraphs about breadmaking in Ancient Greece in that very same section.   I hope to return to this later, but in the meantime I thought (mistakenly?) that it would be a good idea to leave all the authoritative references I could find in place, in case someone else would like to expand on the topic before I get a chance, they would have a head start - it took me a couple of hours to settle on those references.   Try googling "bread" and "Ancient Egypt" and see all the junk you get haha.   The reason there are several from Delwen is because she seems to be the leading authority.  I'm sure you are right and that those could be pruned, but I haven't had a chance to review them closely enough to figure out which are the best ones to retain.  Hopefully I will get to that shortly, but if someone else would like to do it first, they are most welcome.  Pmokeefe (talk) 09:38, 18 April 2017 (UTC)


 * As a personal aside, one of the most valuable things for me about Wikipedia are authoritative references. I constantly use Wikipedia as an entry point for my own research activities.  If I only have a  superficial interest in a subject, reading just the Wikipedia article may be fine, but when I want to go into more depth, I often need to refer to the experts.  Much of the editing I do on Wikipedia is tracking down references, fixing broken links to references etc.  You mentioned Delwen's PhD thesis, for example.  It took me a while to dig up the link to that.  That's the kind of reference that, personally, I really appreciate in a Wikipedia article. Personally, I don't believe I've ever found an article had too many high-quality references.  Also, while different articles may reference each other, it's often very time consuming to find the full article on the web, or even the publisher's site where you can pay for the full article, if it's not available for free.  So having those direct links in Wikipedia can be a big time saver in research, which to me is a big value that Wikipedia provides.  That being said, it may well be that you are right and some of the articles I cited for Delwen are redundant.  Hopefully someone will review them or I will get around to that myself. Pmokeefe (talk) 10:00, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120522022319/http://www.allotment.org.uk/recipes/bread-making/chorleywood-process to http://www.allotment.org.uk/recipes/bread-making/chorleywood-process

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Evidence of bread making over 65000 years ago found in Australia
I am new here so not sure how to go about this. The evidence of seed grinding stones with traces of starch found at the Madjedbebe site in Kakadu National park, Australia would suggest we acknowledge that bread was being made much earlier than claimed in this article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madjedbebe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lynnbenn (talk • contribs) 07:28, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

== What source is it? = Toussaint-Samat 2009, p.202

There is no title, no publishing house, no link, nothing... --Jack2008 (talk) 12:50, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Significant Focus on The UK?
I may be reading too much into it, but it seems like the article has a perspective that is highly centered around the UK from the 19th century onward, which, given the size of the history of bread, seems to be pretty narrow in focus. I'm not sure what could be done to lessen this outside of a rewrite with a significant investment into new citations. 2601:248:500:C490:9C64:60DC:B702:2608 (talk) 03:50, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

'Black' bread
I am reading Tolstoy. The peasants eat 'Black' bread, only the aristocracy eat 'White'. Modern recipes for 'Russian Black Bread' contain ridiculously expensive ingredients clearly beyond Russian 19th century peasants. I have the feeling that the British poor also eat 'Black' bread. I was hoping for an explanation? 146.199.170.185 (talk) 08:50, 12 May 2024 (UTC)