Talk:History of cartography

Untitled
Which part/section may not represent a worldwide view/your view? - Explain.

I've just created this page as a branch from the cartography article. In the process I added some content and did some copyedit, but it still needs a *lot* more work to make it both globally relevant and historically comprehensive. Some missing areas I can think of: And probably a lot more. Also, I know nothing about images - some help there would be fantastic! HMAccount 23:45, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Africa map traditions
 * India pre-British
 * North America maps pre-colonization
 * Persian mapmaking

A sticky wicket. Myself, I like to think of the modern map as largely a western invention, now widely adopted. The English term "map" and its European cognates don't have equivalents in many of the cultures/regions you mention. Might it be better to make a VERY general article about the "mapping" instinct as shown in a variety of cultures (i.e. the tendency to describe geographical space from a vertical perspective and/or record it in a permanent form), and then a separate article dealing (as the current map article mostly does) with conventions of Western/modern cartogrpahy? And then also separate articles on the subjects you mention? Also add: It is conceptually kind of a mess....--Natcase 21:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Performative cartography (e.g. Hawaiian traditional geographical knowledge)
 * Persuasive cartography (maps as a tool of rhetoric rather than record)

Sorry, I posted the above reacting both to Map and History of Cartography. I guess I'm sugegsting we deal with both of these at the same time. Maybe:


 * Map as a general discussion point for the form as developed in Europe and then generally in the modern global commons. This would point to current forms and conventions directly, and also to...
 * Depictions of geographic and cosmographic space as a more general discussion of the relationship among maps, views, cosmological diagrams, performative descriptions of space, etec etc... linking to specific articles on specific traditions, many of which cross this line of modern invention
 * History of cartography broken up, the majority of the article remaining. Perhaps renamed "Hisotry of Western and modern cartography"--Natcase 21:22, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Pictorial maps
I have added a link to a new page I created on pictorial maps - JLR-mapman 01:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Uncharted regions
I remember being taught that in earlier times maps would show large white regions that hadn't been explored, for instance parts of Africa. What is the term for such "white areas"? __meco (talk) 12:54, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Contradiction of statements
In the article as it currently stands, both Pythagoras and Eratosthenes are said to have been the first to describe the world as having five temperature zones: a hot equatorial region, two temperate regions, and two cold polar regions. Neither statement has a citation. If both cartographers did so, then Pythagoras would be the first (since he died approximately two hundred years before Eratosthenes was born). If a reference can be found for neither statement, can Eratosthenes's section be changed to reflect the fact that he was the first to calculate the tilt of Earth's axis, a related achievement listed on his bio page?

(I'm not an expert at all on this subject. I just noticed the contradiction while skimming through the article. I'm sure they both can't be right, but I wouldn't know where to begin research to provide references for them.) Shpowell (talk) 03:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Since it's been a while, I edited the page to say that Eratosthenes also divided the world into 5 zones, but not that he was the first to do it. Shpowell (talk) 18:01, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Rotated de la Cosa map
Rotated version shows geography better.



Peter Mercator (talk) 16:38, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Sections of the article
I see at least two problems with how the article is structured:

1. There are separate sections on Greece, Rome, and Europe. This obviously doesn't make geographic sense (how ironic). The Europe material begins in the middle ages, as if to imply that everything before that was not European.

2. The starting point of modern cartography is not explained and seems quite arbitrary.

The easiest solution for the first problem is to re-name the Europe section to something like "Medieval and Early Modern Europe". That way, ancient Greece and Rome can logically stay separated. (I would still have a problem with that, because the medieval European map makers were heavily influenced by Greco-Roman work. But at least it would be an improvement over what we have now.)

As for the second issue, there are no easy solutions. At the very least, someone has to write a few remarks about what constitutes "modern" cartography, and why some map makers are omitted from this section despite being contemporaneous with map makers who ARE in included in the section. It would also help if the modern section read less like a stub and more like an careful discussion. 108.175.224.175 (talk) 16:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't agree that any changes need to be made, though I see your point. (Greek and Roman maps focus on those entities not necessarily including the entire European continent.)  I think renaming the Europe section as you've described is a good fix.  I'd have to do some research to determine how to define "modern" cartography.  I think it would have to be after the Age of Discovery once the true size of the Earth had been proven. SwordsmanRyan (talk) 02:19, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Problem with Homer
The first paragraph of the section titled Early Greek Literature contains the sentence "The enclosed map, which represents the conjectural view of the Homeric world, was never created by him.", but I do not see the map this refers to. So I'd guess that this passage was taken verbatim from some other source and should be edited, probably by just removing that sentence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.89.1.119 (talk) 18:58, 28 February 2013 (UTC)


 * A Google check confirms this obvious fact. This whole paragraph is lifted.  It isn't very encyclopedic either.  We should change it

IceDragon64 (talk) 22:37, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

There are many problems in this section. Please review and fix. Phact (talk) 13:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

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First Sentence (how long have maps been made?)
The first sentence of the article seems to have an unverifiable claim that maps have been made for "millions" of years: "Cartography, or mapmaking, has been an integral part of human history for millions of years." Maybe it would be better to suggest something like, "for at least 25,000 years ...", and then give an example via citation or footnote. Another alternative would be to acknowledge that the world's oldest map is a matter of debate. "Millions of years" seems like hyperbole that was probably not intended.

Hofmann3900 (talk) 13:59, 3 May 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Constellations ecliptic equirectangular plot.svg

Saint-Bélec Slab
Have a look at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56648055 which is a report on the Saint-Bélec Slab, a 4,000-year-old map. It certainly deserves a mention in cartography articles, and maybe its own page as more information emerges. 2A00:23C6:3B82:8500:D55C:7D87:84DF:489D (talk) 12:32, 7 April 2021 (UTC)