Talk:History of citizenship

floated
This subject still might be missing things, such as the impact of the Magna Carta, the US Constitution, and even technology in affecting the history of citizenship. This beginning is mostly drawn from academic sources but there are still some good ones I didn't yet delve into much: papers by T. H. Marshall Marshall's famous papers: Citizenship and social class (1963), Social Policy (1965), The Right to Welfare and Other Essays (1981). Also: A. N. Sherwin-White's The Roman Citizenship. James T. Kettner The Development of American Citizenship. Roger Brubaker's Citizenship and Nationhood in France and Germany. Philip B. Manville's The Origins of Citizenship in Ancient Athens. Renee Waldinger et all -- The French Revolution and Meaning of Citizenship. Peter Riesenberg -- Citizenship in the Western Tradition: From Plato to Rousseau. History of citizenship, by Margaret Somers. Also I came across Macpherson's eight principles -- not sure what they are and how they relate to citizenship. Also I have material to add to the citizenship article but in the next few days.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 05:08, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Another thing: in Middle Ages, the idea of tracing one's lineage back to kings or rulers or patricians, became more important, partly as a way to secure (or win) membership in the aristocracy. Genealogy became important in many instances. This practice began about AD 800 and continued throughout the Middle Ages, and it may have some impact on the whole idea (later) of birthright citizenship. Wonder if there is a reference for this.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:25, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

too European
Other place like China and India, Arab, Inca, Mayan states had no citizenship? Meaning they though all people equal in their territories equal? People were free people not owned by governments? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trinhhoa (talk • contribs) 04:51, 24 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes. This is what reliable sources say (academics, experts on citizenship). Citizenship is essentially a notion of western civilization; it has only recently (last hundred years or so) been adopted in eastern countries, notably Japan, and is beginning to gain ground in other eastern countries as an accepted relationship. If you can find a reliable source discussing ancient Mayan citizenship, or ancient Inca/Chinese/Indian citizenship, please show us; I didn't find any. And citizenship isn't just about "all people being equal" -- throughout most of civilized history, approximately 90% of people lived as serfs, agricultural workers, supporting the 10% of the ruling class -- these serfs were equal, but you could hardly describe them as citizens.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:55, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Issues
I'm surprised that the concept of citizenship is not discussed as it relates to the form of government. Traditionally, in monarchies and dictatorships, very few (if any) other than the leader are considered citizens. The rest of the people are considered subjects - i.e. property of the crown or state. There are also strong differences regarding how citizenship or subjectship is obtained: By inheritance (jus sanguis - usually in republics), by place of birth (jus soli - usually in monarchies), and variations in naturalization (becoming a citizen during one's lifetime). In Rome, naturalization required a citizen sponsor, or for gladiators, could be won in the arena. In Switzerland, naturalization requires payment to the local government (one is a citizen of country, canton, and town). In the U.S., naturalization requires passing a history test in the native language (English) after having lived in country for 5+ years (and other requirements). 71.106.164.225 (talk) 08:31, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Good points. These ideas can be added to the article, ideally with sources backing them up.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 12:47, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Citizen vs. Subject
The article is bullshit! The modern concept of citizenship is closely tied to republics and the French Revolution. In monarchies the analogous concept is subject. This article makes no comparison or distinction between the two; it does not even once use the word subject in this context. A central part of the history of citizenship is how subjects evolved into citizens. British subjects only started regarding themselves as "citizens" after WWII.

I have added a See also link to British subjects in the UK section, but the article needs a complete rewrite. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:29, 4 March 2016 (UTC)


 * When you start out with a blatant statement like The article is bullshit! finished by an exclamation mark, and this well-referenced highly read article has been in Wikipedia for years, it is hard for us Wikipedians to take seriously whatever else you might say. Reading further, it seems your argument is that citizenship only began in modern times, and that the chief transition is between subject => citizen. There is much evidence to the contrary, although it could be argued that this view is debatable (indeed, the article does point out that scholars disagree about whether citizenship is exclusively a modern phenomenon, or whether the concept originated with the ancients). If you'd like to add referenced verifiable material to bolster that view, please do; or if you'd like to add referenced verifiable material about the evolving concept of subject, please do.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:14, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

It helps Abby Joel&#39;s (talk) 16:12, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Please make it possible to find the importance of citizenship education at least five Abby Joel&#39;s (talk) 16:18, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

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Reference to the 14th amendment
The article states that '. . . the Fourteenth Amendment was added in 1868, which defined American citizenship as "All persons born or naturalized in the United States" not possessing foreign allegiance.' I believe that description applies correctly to the Civil Rights Act of 1866, but the Fourteenth Amendment itself states: 'All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States. . .' That is a significant difference as the earlier law applied to former slaves, but not necessarily to children of immigrants. Please comment if my understanding is not correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ckeavney (talk • contribs) 20:14, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Review by HistoryHoosier (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
This is a fascinating article that has extensive implications for our modern global community. After reviewing this article, I would like to put forth a few suggestions.

·      I would propose exchanging the second and third paragraphs of the lead section. This would place the text discussing citizenship’s common attributes and distinction from previous kinship relationships before the summation of the article’s main arguments.

·      I would also suggest relocating the competing senses segment to the top of the page. This way reader can understand the difference between liberal individualist views and civic- republicanism before looking at their manifestations throughout history.

·      While the Eastern conceptions segment derives it origins from western citizenship, it seems that it might be better suited to its own page.

·      The block quotations are numerous. Many of these could probably be removed without impacting the integrity of the surrounding text.

·      This article could benefit from the addition of two new sections

1.     A section on Immigration. In previous research, I found that Roger Daniels’ Coming to America (Second Addition) was a valuable source for American immigration

2.     A section covering the ways citizenship is confirmed and enforced.

Overall, increasing inclusion of underrepresented viewpoints that would encompass the way in which Race, Gender, and Ability have impacted citizenship status. ~

HistoryHoosier (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)