Talk:History of the Church (book)

Name
suggest you change title--this is ambiguous--possibly use one of the later titles.DGG 18:55, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It's the current name of the work—it's always best to use the current name and not a former one (I'm not sure what you mean by "later titles"—I'm assuming you mean "earlier"); disambiguation is clearly marked at the top for those looking for the history of Christianity; the name of the article was not used at all, even as a redirect page, prior to my starting the article. I don't see much potential for confusion. Clearly people have not been typing in "History of the Church" and expecting it to take them somewhere, because the page was empty. -SESmith 01:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Joseph Smith a Freemason?
In Vol. 4 of this work there are some quotes that I wonder if they are to be attributed to Joseph Smith, and if so, do they attest to him having been involved in Freemasonry?


 * ''Tuesday, 15.--I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Free Masonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office.


 * ''Wednesday, March 16.--I was with the Masonic Lodge and rose to the sublime degree.

The online version I have looked in isn't paginated, however the first quote should be on page 551 and the second on page 552.

I am also looking into a possible quote from John A. Widtsoe in Evidences and Reconcilliations allegedly attesting to the same. __meco 14:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * As the article suggests, most of History of the Church was actually written by Smith's secretaries, and everything was heavily edited by the LDS Church when it was being compiled, so it can't be accepted unquestionably as the exact words of Smith. That being said, I don't think there's much academic dispute that Smith was a Freemason—there are enough supporting documents outside of History of the Church that substantiates as much. Snocrates 04:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Published by the church
Under the section "Status in the Church", it reads "…Roberts's History of the Church has never been published by LDS Church…" This appears to be incorrect, since each volume states on the title page "Published by the Church". The Deseret News in Salt Lake City is also identified, but not specified as a publisher. I will remove the incorrect statement. Rich jj (talk) 14:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * On the link you provided, it says "Published by Deseret News", not "Published by the Church". Good Ol’factory (talk) 14:54, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

name
Suggest name change to "History of the Church (book)" Any objections? If not will do it soon. Rogerdpack (talk) 11:37, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Just to be clear, what is the reason the move needs to be performed? In other words, what will happen to the un-disambiguated History of the Church? Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:46, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

tanner criticism
I'd just like to say that I disbelieve that the Tanner's counted all supposed 62,000 changes minutely by hand. That must be an estimate. Rogerdpack (talk) 11:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's likely been done by computer at this stage. It's fairly easy to compute once you have electronic copies of both. Good Ol’factory (talk) 06:29, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

From Talk:History of the Church/Comments

 *  The following was origionally posted to Talk:History of the Church/Comments, but should have been posted here, so moved. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 16:09, 13 May 2011 (UTC) 

Reads fine by me. Rogerdpack (talk) 11:59, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the History of the Church by Eusebius?
At least that gets more hits than this. This should be a disambiguation page. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:17, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to History of the Church (Joseph Smith), and rudimentary dab page created. Please help expand it! Favonian (talk) 14:46, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

History of the Church → History of the Church (Joseph Smith) – Most GB hits for "History of the Church" are referring to Church History (Eusebius), evidently the main use as a book title. Others relate to other books on the Ecclesiastical History disambiguation. Plus, this book was originally History of Joseph Smith from 1858 to rename in 1902, - and evidently the Church meant is LDS, so some kind of disambiguator is required, such as Eusebius has for his book. (then the remaining History of the Church to become a disambiguation page linking to both of them and others). In ictu oculi (talk) 13:45, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename and disambiguate per nom. "the Church" would usually mean the Roman Catholic Church, so "History of the Church" would usually mean History of the Catholic Church if used descriptively instead of prescriptively. 70.49.126.147 (talk) 05:15, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Rename. Makes good sense. But I hope the nominator likes updating wikilinks, because it looks like there are around 150-odd pages that link to this page and are intended to be links to the history written by Smith. Good Ol’factory (talk) 07:38, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I can update the links if someone could create History of the Church (Joseph Smith) as a redirect first, and give me a few days to change all of the applicable article-space links from History of the Church to History of the Church (Joseph Smith) before making the article name change; hopefully I wouldn't get called a vandal, etc... for doing that (see talk page for this IP for more semi-humorous details of previous encounters). Doing the link updates is much more difficult after the name change than it is ahead of time. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 15:49, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Why is it more difficult after? Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:49, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've created the redirect because I see no harm in doing so (a non-admin could still close this RM). But I'm also curious about why it is easier before? Jenks24 (talk) 04:52, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I believe a lot of the links are on a template aren't they? Change the template and they'll all disappear together, but yes it'd be a chore. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:24, 16 March 2012 (UTC) Not. But it's still only 25-30. I'd do them. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:28, 16 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. I agree it's not the clear primary topic and that disambiguation is necessary. Then I would suggest turning "History of the Church" into a dab page, where we can list this article, Church History (Eusebius), History of the Catholic Church, and probably a bunch of others. Jenks24 (talk) 04:49, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support: The present title does suggest the Catholic church rather than the LDS as the church in question; a disambiguator is (IMO) essential. And I second the question; why do we need to change the pages linked here before a move? They can be found easily enough through the "what links here" function at (what would then be) the redirect page. And if you need a hand fixing the links, give me a shout. Moonraker12 (talk) 21:22, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support -- The present title clearly reflects a LDS POV of what the "church" is. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:16, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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