Talk:History of the Jews in Latin America and the Caribbean

Mexico
The first comment below appears to be a Strong keep.

It is absolutely necessary for there to be a separate page about Mexican Jews. There is a huge interest in the United States about the Mexican Jewish community. There are also various Mexican Jewish communities each of which is facing individual issues, which makes a need for a separate entry in Wikipedia. It's important for someone to be able to type in Mexican Jews and be directly sent to an article.
 * Keep Mexican Jews. I concur that a separate page is necessary. I'd like to see both "Mexican Jews" and "Jews in Mexico" point to that article, with a "see also" for this article, but I'm not adamant so long as this article maintains a prominent link to that article. It is important that the two pieces interact, because certainly there are historic ties, but they're not entirely the same thing. Also, there isn't as much freedom to develop the Mexican part of an already incredibly long article, the way there would be if MJ remained a separate piece. I found it frustrating to be looking for an article on Jews in Mexico and have to make my way halfway down a much larger article.


 * Moreover: At present, the article on Mexican Jews (and this large article as well) does not address the role of U.S. immigration quotas on the shifting of large numbers of emigrating Jews to Mexico in the 19th and 20th centuries. An entire wing of my own family is in Mexico today because when the whole family arrived in Texas, some were permitted to stay and others were told, "You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here" and thus moved to Mexico because it was near ... at least, that's the family story. I hope to see a few of them at a family gathering this weekend and be able to get more info that will in turn let me find reliable sources to use for researching this. Lawikitejana 21:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Bolivia
There was/is a jewish community (~600 Jews) in Bolivia. I only know of third party sources such as http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Bolivia.html and my wife's family, so I'm hesitant to make any additions myself, but I'd love to see it added. --Reflous 08:29, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Reflous, it sounds like you have a good beginning -- why not try writing a section? Third party sources combined with a bit of first-hand knowledge is the best basis for wiki writing. Give it a shot and let the community revise and update. --Goodoldpolonius2 01:19, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Puerto Rico section
Can the author of that section provide any sort of evidence for any of it? As it is, it seems entirely unsourced POV original research. Not to mention dubious. Jayjg (talk) 23:43, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I wrote a 50 page history paper comparing the religious freedom experienced by Jews in Recife, New York, and Amsterdam. It was deemed publishable by my professor. So no, it is not unsourced nor my point of view. And it is certainly not dubious.

Sources:

Boxer, Charles R. The Dutch in Brazil, 1624-1654. Hamden, CT: Archon Books, 1973

Wiznitzer, Arnold. Jews in Colonial Brazil. New York: Columbia University Press, 1960.

Wiznitzer, Arnold. O Livro De Atas Das Congreagates Judaicas ``Zur Israel Em Recife E ``Magen Abraham Em Mauricia, Brazil, 1648-1653. Biblioteca Nacional (Brazil); Anais Da Biblioteca Nacional Do Rio De Janeiro; V. 74. Rio de Janeiro: Departamento de Imprensa Nacional, 1953.

These are hard-to-find books, but available at major university libraries.


 * To the anonymous commenter above, what objection are you referring to? I made changes after Jayg's comments to fix the Puerto Rico section, so I think Jayg's comments are out of date.  The current Puerto Rico section is fine. In any case, the objection did not refer to Recife.  --Goodoldpolonius2 05:29, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes thanks Polonius, your fixes to that section were exactly what it needed, and solved the issue. Jayjg (talk) 16:08, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup
By request, I will attempt to expand on my addition of the Cleanup boilerplate, then removed by Goodoldpolonius2 (and requested reasoning for its application to this article). I would have copyedited it myself, but I had RL responsibilities to attend to.
 * At the diff page, I believe I clearly defined what needed attention – to anyone attempting to remove the cleanup boilderplate.
 * I noticed a significant unbalanced wiki-styling (but my eyesight isn't that good either!)
 * 36 wiki links in section 0 (4 paragraphs)
 * 2 wiki links in section 1 (2 paragraphs) (Argentina)
 * 1 wiki link in section 2 (4 paragraphs) (Brazil)
 * 2 wiki links in section 3 (2 paragraphs) (Mexico)
 * 12 wiki links in section 4 (2 paragraphs) (Puerto Rico)

Obvious items that need cleanup: I will move on and leave the article untouched, considering the current consensus is that its is just fine the way it is. There are articles, I'll find another.
 * Wikify places (several that should be)
 * Wikify dates
 * Full dates : Style: Dates
 * A few of the YYYY's could be too : Style: Internal Links
 * I'm sure that a portion, if not majority, was writen by people that use ESL, and I have no issues with their addition of content. For journalistic reasons, grammar could be improved (by a native English speaker).
 * &hellip; G u y M &hellip; (soapbox) 04:41, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * Guy, you don't have to react so strongly -- your cleanup tag had a single note "" -- it was totally unclear what that meant. I am not sure why you think most of the article was written by non-English speakers, it appears to me to be correct grammer and generally good flow, if a bit abrupt at times (although some of the source material is from the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1904, which can be archaic-sounding), perhaps you could point out the problems with the grammer that are bothering you?  It just isn't clear to me when I read it.
 * As for the Wikilinks, I will add some - but generally I don't consider not Wikifying every place a need for cleanup. However, your point is valid (although Wikilinking is often biased heavily towards the first paragraphs, where huge numbers of terms are introduced), and being addressed. --Goodoldpolonius2 14:56, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Brazil
The article gives two different figures for the Jewish population of Brazil. First it states that it is 100,000, and then further down in the box it says that it is 95,000. Which is it? 69.137.220.179 00:28, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

The figures keep being blown up, now it states 295,000, which looks suspiciously like the sum of the figures given in the table below (for two different periods!). I know some like to puff the number of "fashionable" foreign populations amidst the Brazilian whole, but this is turning to be ridiculous. I'm going try and dig "official" numbers from the mess that is IBGE's site and reference them in the article.

Afc 17:12, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

It is always forgotten the history and the importance of many Sphardic Jews that lived in Brazil all the time during the colonization. I am not talking about the jews of Dutch Brazil, I am talking about the other jews that lived in Brazil between the end of Dutch rule and the Independence Declaration. They escaped from the persecution that was taken up in the Iberian Peninsula and lived as "Crypto-Judeus" in the colony.This article also forgets the great number of Marranos, New-Christians (Cristãos Novos) that lived in Brazil since the start of the colonization, people of truly jewish origin, that lived an persecuted life in that country, and do not mention they is ignore their fight and battle through the times. For example, New-Christians are openly discriminated, including the own king of Portugal advised members of his court to never marry a person with New-Christian blood(inspite of this, we can also remember that the kings of the Bragança Dinasty have an ancient jewish ancestor, Inês Pires). The people of jewish origin were prohibited to occupy public charges like, for example, to be a member of a municipal chamber. This article simply ignore the existence of these jewish citzens, that is a pain, it remembers just a moment in colonial brazilian history and the recent history of the arrival of Jews in Brazil. I would like to make clear my protest, because it is a great historical crime forget these people, this article do not remember that they have descendants, that some of these descendants are attempting to rebuild their past consciense. Forgoting the colonial jewish ancestors in a powerful knowledge vehicle is to say to these past researchers that their ancestors have no importance in the brazilian jewish history, is like saying that there was not these people in the past. Excuse me, but this forgetfulness is an offence to all who descend from these jews. Please, would be a great pleasure to have this important part of our past registered in this magnificent encyclopedia.

Philippines?
I am having some troubles with the name of this article. Hisotry of the Jew in Latin America. Why is the Philippines included in this article? Gadig 18:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Split Article

 * I'm proposing that this article be split up, or at least most content moved to subpages. Most of the sections here have fairly significantly sized entries, with room for expansion still, and I think it would make more sense for them to have their own page, without having to worry about the growing length of this article. Thoughts? -- Chabuk [ T • C ] 21:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. The largest segments have now been moved to four new articles that can be expanded: History of the Jews in Argentina; History of the Jews in Brazil; History of the Jews in Mexico; and History of the Jews in Venezuela, but there is no way this page can become a "disambig" page because the general subject of History of the Jews in Latin America is a legitmate name and field of academic study. Perhaps you meant that articles should be spun off, which is different to the functions of a "disambig" page. See Disambiguation which is about "resolving conflicts" and there are no conflicts about the term "Latin America" or the history of its Jews. It's only a question of where and how to "squeeze in" a lot of history and material. And the way to get around that is by having "main articles" spun off and then connected to here by using the main template/s. IZAK 06:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ya, that's what I meant! Thanks. -- Chabuk [ T • C ] 14:38, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Panama
Missing details about Jews in Panama. May be, someone is able to add special informations regardig this matter. --78.48.55.243 (talk) 10:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I am changing the text from 'Columbus' to 'Colón' which is the actual name of the city. Columbus is a literal mistranslation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Col%C3%B3n,_Panama — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.141.247.136 (talk) 18:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Support. I have checked a few dozen sources (including the English-language Wikipedia article about the city) and have not found a single reference to the name in English. I have found several photos of Colombus City, Panama, but none that I consider reliable sources. I have also found Columbus University in Panama City, but that is not relevant. While translations of descriptive names of places (Panama City as opposed to Ciudad de Panama) are generally acceptable, other place names written in Latin Script are not usually translated. (No one would use the terms Saint Anthony for San Antonio, Texas, or The Angels for Los Angeles, California. One exception: Philadelphia, is often spelled Filadelfia in Spanish.)Calmecac5 (talk) 21:01, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Population way off
2.5 million? Really? Do you guys wanna collect and compare sources here? AJC says ~390k.--Lazer Stein (talk) 22:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Curcao, Haiti, and Jamaica are in Latin America?
I always thought Latin America was composed of Spanish and Portuguese speaking territories...Haiti is French speaking (a Romance language, though), but Curcao belongs to the Netherlands and Jamaica is anglophone, isn't it? Shouldn't the article be called "History of the Jews in Latin America and the Caribbean"? 198.151.130.61 (talk) 12:33, 29 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Most people would define Latin America as you do--countries in America where Spanish is the principal lnguage plus Brazil. However, the Wikipeddia article in Spanish (es:América Latina) notes that some people include francophone countries, sometimes even including Quebec, Canada, and those areas of the United States with large Spanish-speaking populations. Some people go further and argue that Belize is culturally part of Latin America. Of course, this article is not restricted to Latin America but specifically includes the Caribbean (thus Curcao, Haiti, and Jamaica, among others, should be included.Calmecac5 (talk) 22:19, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Guatemala
The Guatemalan section references the group Lev Tahor living in San Juan La Laguna. If you follow the link to the Lev Tahor page you see info on this page is outdated. There should be something about them being evicted from San Juan La Laguna with a link to the relevant footnote on the Lev Tahor page. My wiki editing skills are not up to this. I hope someone will take it on. Wikikd (talk) 03:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:08, 5 June 2020 (UTC)