Talk:History of the Jews in Serbia/Archive 1

Serbias secret war
As a quotation that Serbia was a first Judenfrei state in Europe is used quotation from Texan dentist Philip J. Cohen, who was personal friend of Croatian president Franjo Tudjman. This book is proved to be forgery, on many other issues too! First Judenfrei state in Europe is Estonia: http://www.ejc.ee/templates/articlecco_cdo/aid/304672/jewish/History.htm

http://www.open.ac.uk/socialsciences/semlin/en/holocaust-in-serbia.php

--Branko1408 (talk) 08:50, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Number of Jews in Serbia today
The Jewish Virtual Library lists 2,500 in Serbia and Montenegro, and I am assuming most live in Serbia. The Religion in Serbia article lists 785 Jews in Serbia according to the 2002 census. I have the 2005 statistics from the Statistical Office of the Republic of Serbia, and it doesn't mention religion.

Can anyone shed some light on the topic?

Cheers AWN2 16:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * There is another book published by the Statistical Office of the Republic of Serbia that mention religion and language (you probably have one that mention only ethnic groups). So, according to this other book from 2002 census that I have, there were 785 Jews (in the sense of religion) in Serbia, of whom 456 lived in Central Serbia and 329 in Vojvodina. Of those from Central Serbia, 415 lived in Belgrade. Here is a document with census results (although in Serbian Cyrillic): http://webrzs.statserb.sr.gov.yu/axd/Zip/VJN3.pdf However, the number of ethnic Jews (those citizens of Serbia that declared Jewish ethnicity) is not listed separately in the census results for ethnic groups, but they are listed in the category "other". PANONIAN   (talk)  18:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Inconsistency Between Figures
There appears to be some inconsistency between comparative figure quoted in the article as capture by the following two statements:
 * The Ustaše murdered between 300,000 and 700,000 Serbs, approximately 40,0000 Roma (Gypsies) and 32,000 Jews in the territories they controlled.
 * At Jasenovac alone, 800,000 people were murdered (mostly Serbs), including 20,000 Jews[9].

What this is saying is that more Serbs died in one camp than on the whole territory of the NDH. FOr the sake of the articles credibility, can someone provide clarification pls. iruka 12:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

It is now well accepted that around 100.000 (tops) people were killed in Jasenovac. There are several sources, and by far the most scientific one being Vladimir Zerjavic's book "The obsessions and megalomania around Bleiburg and Jasenovac". Considering that it is impossible that there were 700.000 or 800.000 serbs alone murdered.

see the link for reference: http://www.knjiznica-krizevci.hr/ekatalog/knjiga_back.asp?ID_BROJ=2020 195.29.183.249 10:09, 12 February 2007 (UTC) Vanja

Then why don't someone change the figures? It looks like a terribly amateur article this way.. I guess the original poster will try to change the numbers back, but he's really harming wikipedia where it should be strongest - neutrality of history articles. Aljosa 12:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

"Antisemitic" attack
Seems the guy didn't like sexual harassment perpetrated by other males: http://www.b92.net/info/vesti/index.php?yyyy=2006&mm=08&dd=29&nav_id=209796 --Hadžija 20:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Inconsistency
...there is even much more inconsistency if the data is compared to other articles about Jewish communities in the countries of former Yugoslavia or even the information provided about the Nazi camps in these territories...Some numbers are truly ridiculous as they get even 10 times greater than the numbers in other articles...these articles should be disputed at least...if not rewritten completely with citations of academic sources...Data tends to be "adjusted" for the audience.....donc —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.195.34.116 (talk) 04:14, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

The Serbian Orthodox Church openly collaborated with the Nazis
Between 1941 and 1944 in Serbia existed Government of National Salvation wich collaborated with Nazis. The Serbian Orthodox Church openly collaborated with the Nazis, and many priests publicly defended the persecution of the Jews (e.g. Bishop Nikolaj Velimirovic)

New article - should it be merged here
Folks, a new article Serb Jews has been created. I've tagged it to merge here as it seems either a duplicate topic or the opportunity for a fork - Peripitus (Talk) 23:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge Little in new article that isn't, or can't be, covered in existing.--Rodhullandemu 00:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge. Per nom and Rodhullandemu. Guliolopez 00:59, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

To be expanded to cover more, will expound on pages talk page Eiri Amach 00:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

@ "Inconsistency Between Figures" and others
In last 5-10 years, Croatian historians have been trying to reduce number of victims of Nazi Croats ("Ustashe") regime during the WWII. The latest articles that I read saying that in Jasenovac (Nazi Croatian concentration camp) were executed ~ 80 000 people (Jews, Serbs, Gypsies…), that is ten times less then reported numbers in the official history. As sources often are named Ustashe’s archives that remained after WWII. The same is with source that is given by author of the comment "Inconsistency Between Figures". It is very interesting to mention that whenever NaziCroatian’s archives are mention as a valid source, authors even not trying to mention that main archives were destroyed (burned) by the end of WWII...

I would like to use term "inconsistency" as a description for most of the work done by modern Croatian historians. NaziCroats did probably the worse, monstrous war crimes during the WWII and there should be not chance for their political and historical rehabilitation.

After WWII, those facts remain mostly unknown for the rest of the world because were hidden by communist regime in former Yugoslavia that was leaded by Josip Broz, Croatian communist.

Article is quite good and explaining very well Serbian politic in 19h century.

All comments are obviously written by Croats with bad conscience and should be flagged as hidden Croatian antisemitism and therefore deleted.

Igor( igorcerak@hotmail.com )

Montenegro
History of the Jews in Montenegro redirects to this article, yet no relevant mention is made in this article about Jewish history in the region of Montenegro. Either the redirect should be removed, or the article should be expanded [and probably renamed] to reflect Jewish history in the relatively newly [re]independent country of Montenegro. Any takers? Tomertalk 09:16, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


 * At the time that I created the Serbian and Montenegrin Jews articles I did some research, and it seems that Montenegro really doesn't have a "Jewish history", as such. There have been or are random Jews living in Montenegro, but as far as organized Jewish community or institutions, I am unaware of any historic or current Jewish community in Montenegro. I initially had an article about the Jews of Montenegro, but it essentially said that there is no Jewish community in Montenegro, and there has never been one. The article was deleted and redirected to "Jews in Serbia". Cheers, AWN2 (talk) 01:02, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * PS: Now that Serbia and Montenegro are independent, the Jews in Montenegro redirect should probably not redirect to Serbia. Cheers, AWN2 (talk) 02:36, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * This was the text from that article that was deleted:
 * There are no known Jews in Montenegro, and few Jews have ever lived in the area.
 * I'm not sure, in that case, what's to be done... perhaps create an article for countries that have never had any (or very few) Jews, and redirect thither... Tomertalk 17:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure, in that case, what's to be done... perhaps create an article for countries that have never had any (or very few) Jews, and redirect thither... Tomertalk 17:17, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I have re-done the History of the Jews in Montenegro article with the relevant references and stub tags -- what do people think? I think the redirect was put in before Montenegro was independent, so it's probably not appropriate anymore. Even though the article is small, I think it does give some information about the Jewish community of Montenegro, such as it is!! I guess further discussion of this topic should be on the article's talk page. Cheers, AWN2 (talk) 23:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there's some kind of expansion that can be done to the article (sheesh... with its current "expansiveness", how can there not be??)... whatever the case, if it cannot be further expanded upon, it should remain as its own article, unless someone comes up with an article History of Jews in European countries without much Jewish history. It might be worthwhile, however, to add, at least for now, a link to History of the Jews in Serbia in a See also section.  Thoughts?  Tomertalk  08:23, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm actually not so sure there is much that can be added to the article -- I guess it's like the History of the Jews in Antarctica! ;-) I have added the Jewish history and Montenegrin stub tags, so hopefully if someone has more information, they can add it. A link to the article on Serbian Jews is probably a good idea. Cheers, AWN2 (talk) 04:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Jews in Serbia or Jews in Croatia???? can't have it both ways
look this article is about Jews in Serbia...it's not supposed to be just another place to spread speculation and propaganda regarding the Ustase and Croatia in WWII....lets keep this about Serbia here....and this article doesn't even mention that Belgrade was the first city to be free of jews, and that between 20,000-30,000 thousand jews died in Serbia, by the hands of serbs, not just germans. ill check on this later, if there is still unrelated figures about Ustase in this article, and trickled down versions of Serbian crimes, i will change it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.167.254.239 (talk) 04:23, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The Ustaše also set up concentration camps at Kerestinac, Jadovna, Metajna and Slana. The most notorious," where cruelty of unimaginable proportions " was perpetrated against Jewish and Serbian prisoners were at Pag and Jasenovac.

This is very POV and inflamatory.

On the otherside the article doesn't deal with Serbian nazi collaborators as Milan Nedic,Dimitrije Ljotic,Svetozar Vujković, Kosta Mušicki,Milan Aćimović,Kosta Pećanac,Sekula Drljević ZBOR etc.

--(GriffinSB) (talk) 22:43, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Serbian-Jewish Relations
What abut pogroms during the Serbian uprisings against the Ottomans? And what about the deportations of Vojvodina Jews after 1918? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.136.18.213 (talk) 20:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC) This is a direct quote: "Serbian-Jewish relations reached a high degree of cooperation during World War I, when Jews and Serbs fought side by side against the Central Powers. The post-war years were a Golden Age for the Jews, who enjoyed full equality in the Yugoslav kingdom until the 1938 German annexation of Austria.The Balkan harmony lasted until the dissolution of the Federal Republic in 1991."Serbian Defense Forces (talk) 05:56, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

What about anti-semitic laws of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia, which were proclaimed in 1939 ?--Rjecina (talk) 16:51, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

We know that every military force or invasor which tries to overthrow a country places intelligence officers or operatives in form of politicans or advisors inside a country that is beeing invaded. In this example, the anti-semitic laws could have been created in the name of the country by these operatives. Such Behaviour is no secret, rare or unique. It is the active takeover of a country through non-military actions. --Santiago84 17:25, 10 November 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Santiago84 (talk • contribs)

False reference removed
This reference Stefan, Ljubica. "Anti-semitism in Serbia during World war II" was removed as the false one. The quoted text

As a result, Emanuel Schäfer, Chief of the German police and Gestapo in Serbia, could boast as soon as 1942 that: "Belgrade - the only larger European city which has been cleansed of Jews, has become judenfrei."

''Similarly Harald Turner of the SS, stated in 1942 that: "Serbia is the only country in which the Jewish question and the Gypsy question has been solved."[6] ''

comes from Dwork, Debórah; Robert Jan Pelt, Robert Jan Van Pelt (2003), Holocaust: a history, New York, N.Y.: W. W. Norton & Company, p. 184.

The false reference was inserted by the banned Rjecina user.--96.231.71.176 (talk) 21:27, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Infobox created
I hope the selection of people I did was good enough!

Moša Pijade • Danilo Kiš • Erich Šlomović Jelena Đurović • Yehuda Elkana • Theodor Herzl

Feel free to suggest more ideas here! Guitar hero on the roof (talk) 19:42, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

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Last sentence of intro?
"The very name of the City of Subotica gives away its Jewish heritage – "Shabbat" is "Subota" in the Serbo-Croatian language."

Unsubtantiated claim — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.177.201.128 (talk) 22:04, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)