Talk:History of the Jews in the United States/Archive 1

old comments
I created this article because the pre-20th century one was horrible (the Jewish Encyclopedia of 1906 did not have a great article on it, and that is where it was taken from) and did not include recent history. This is now all original material, with a few of the early sections taken from the older article. Please help improve. --Goodoldpolonius2 18:45, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Does this article include all the information from Jewish history in the United States (pre-20th century), or only select parts of it? Jayjg |  (Talk)  19:33, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * I cut a lot of text from the first article, because it was pasted wholesale from the Jewish Encyclopedia and was of marginal to no value to someone living in 2006, as opposed to 1906 (please feel free to look at the history if you want to confirm) or was repeateded in the subarticles on the history of Jews in Colonial America, the History of the Jews in the US (Education), etc. I was originally just going to edit the first article, but as the original did not make a lot of sense, editing turned into a wholesale rewrite (like so many Jewish Encyclopedia paste jobs) but take a look yourself and see if anything significant is missing. --Goodoldpolonius2 20:04, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Francis Salvador
It looks like he died in South Carolina and was from there? He was the first Jew to die during the American Revolution, not the "first revolutionary to be killed in Georgia". Anybody care to correct this? Thanks.68.99.154.144 04:23, 16 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I corrected that and linked him to his own article. Thanks!Tom 16:32, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Pogram
I reverted an edit that seemed liked pretty charged verbage, but I am totally open to consensus..as long as it agrees with mine :) j/kTom 00:39, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Grammatical Error?
"But none of the early migratory movements assumed the significance and volume of that from Russia and neighboring countries."

This sounds like someone deleted half the sentence accidently, yet it's the first sentence in the crux of the article.Jay Kay 15:50, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Jews in the American West
This section has many grammar mistakes and missing citations. Could a scholar revise? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vajrapoppy (talk • contribs) 05:58, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

number of migrants
"From Russia alone the emigration rose from an annual average of 4,100 in the decade 1871-80 to an annual average of 20,700 in the decade 1881-90": does this information refer to all the emigrants from Russia or only to the emigrants who went to the U. S.? Could you please name sources? --Stilfehler 18:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Is there any reason we're not using these images?
I just found these images on commons and found that they aren't being used here. I can't find any discussion regarding them here nor does it seem they've ever been used in the article. Did we just not know about them, or is there a reason they're not being used? Shavua Tov! &mdash;Elipongo (Talk contribs) 03:32, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Good idea, but the article has a different map: one has the numerical percentages of Jewish population for each state. The largest does belong in New York state, followed by Florida and California. The smallest (less than 1%) is either North or South Dakota, and the fastest growth of Jewish residents per state is Utah and Nevada (now over 4%). The Jewish community in Salt Lake City developed in a state with a common interest of religious tolerance with the predominant Mormon majority. On an interesting note, Roseanne Barr-Arnold is born/raised in Salt Lake City. I recall on her A&E biography or Lifetime: intimate portrait segment, she viewed herself as "a token Jew" in a public school of mostly Mormons in the middle of Utah. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 05:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Forgotten page
It looks like this article was once a spin-off of another article that was eventually moved and then redirected here, and hasn't much been looked at since. It seems a merge may be appropriate, though I'll let others more familiar check it out. Mackan79 17:55, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

See also section
I removed links that already appear in the article as well as others per relevance. If they can be worked into the article, so be it, Thanks, --Tom (talk) 14:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the last two as well. --Tom 20:59, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Jews in the Government --- Highly biased; please revise
"From the period just before the turn of the 20th century on, the Jewish political influence in the United States has been deep-felt and often counterproductive to the interests of the United States as a whole. The Balfour Declaration was perhaps the beginning of events that led to 911. Three books, They Dare to Speak Out, Attack on the Liberty, and The Power of Israel in the United States, speak volumes about pro-Zionist and Israel-first American activists orchestrating a plethora of pro-Israel, pro-Jewish and pro-Zionist policies worldwide. Whenever a public official or anyone else in the media speaks in ways that are perceived as negative toward the pro-Israeli lobby, they are generally silenced by false but heavy and effective anti-Semite charges." I consider the statements in this paragraph not only to be highly speculative and even inflammatory, but largely untrue. This section should be removed, or, if it is to remain, should be supported by verifiable fact. Jewish political influence, to my knowledge, is a fallacy or, at most, insignificant. Mhzmaster (talk) 07:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)Mhzmaster

Refugees from Nazi Germany
In this section the second paragraph states (without references or links): "the United States accepted only 21,000 refugees from Europe". Is this figure correct? Is this total refugees or just Jewish refugees? Also, it's referring to an undated report. More importantly, the final sentence of this section says: "About 100,000 German Jews did arrive in the 1930s, escaping Hitler’s persecution." To me, this sentence appears to have been added to this section by a different hand. Plainly the two figures are contradictory. Does anybody know the true figure, and with a few dates?--PhilipT-K (talk) 21:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Ąnother source - Marauding Youth
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-817064/Marauding-youth-and-the-Christian.html Xx236 (talk) 11:13, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Factual error
Under the American Revolution section, the Touro Synagogue is referred to as the first synagogue in the United States, this is an innaccurate statement. The first synagogue belonged to Shearith Israel. 63.167.2.89 17:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Different factual error: At the start of this article, does "Boston" refer to The Greater Boston area? Boston proper has a population of less than 600,000 and this article claims there are 254,000 Jews in Boston. I don't think Boston is more than 40% Jewish... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.88.167.111 (talk) 13:15, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism in the US section
Can the last part of that section be researched better? The source is an ADL poll. They say that 29% of Hispanics are anti-semites and 35% of non US born Hispanics are anti-semites. Thats ALOT of people being tagged with that label it seems. I am NOT saying it's not true, I was wondering if there are any other polls or what/how they determined their definition of anti-semite. I'll try to research this more and the poll that was used.... Thanks!

Ethnic Group project
I placed this tag here based on the fact that other articles on Jewish American topics have been categorized as belonging to ethnicity-based categories, e.g. American Jews and and. Are these assessments incorrect? Aristophanes68 (talk) 03:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Is there a reliable source? Correct, in Wikipedia terms, means based on a reliable source. Do you have a source for the assertion you want to make, which is that Jews in the United States constitute an ethnic group? Bus stop (talk) 03:29, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * From Wikipedia's own article Jew: "The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎, Yehudim), also known as the Jewish people, are an ethnoreligious group...." From the article ethnoreligious group: "An ethnoreligious group (or ethno-religious group) is an ethnic group of people...." Therefore, according to the consensus built up here by Wikipedia, being Jewish counts as an ethnicity. In fact, the article Talk:Jew is itself listed as belonging to the Ethnic Groups page. Do I need outside sources when the issue seems internally consistent? Aristophanes68 (talk) 03:39, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I am asking you to provide a source for the material that you are attempting to put into this article. Bus stop (talk) 03:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about? I haven't touched the article. I'm simply adding a WikiProject tag to this Talk Page. You're thoroughly confusing me. As for the Project tag: if Jews themselves are an ethnic group according to Wikipedia, then Jews in the USA are also an ethnic group. Aristophanes68 (talk) 03:54, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you have a reliable source that asserts that Jews constitute an "ethnic group" in the United States? If you do not, then please don't put in place a tag that asserts or implies that. Bus stop (talk) 04:01, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The American Jews article mentions "Jewish ethnicity" in the lede and is included as part of the Ethnic Groups project. I claim internal consistency with other articles on Wikipedia that have achieved consensus as my justification for adding the Ethnic Groups tag. Aristophanes68 (talk) 04:07, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I stand corrected. I see now that you really CAN'T use internal consistency as an argument... Sheesh! Aristophanes68 (talk) 04:14, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Is it sourced? Internal consistency isn't a nonnegotiable principle of Wikipedia. If you cannot find a reliable source for what you wish to assert, doesn't that tell you something about your proposed assertion? It happens to be on shaky ground. The other articles' problems can be addressed in due time. But please do not put un-sourced material into this article. The tag obviously contains an implication. Please find a source for the implication that you wish to place into this article. Please find a source that asserts that Jews constitute an "ethnic group" in the United States. Bus stop (talk) 04:18, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I haven't found a reliable source because I haven't started looking for one--I was simply going off the definitions and project tags related to relevant articles. I know that in my line of work, we routinely treat Jewish American identity as an ethnicity, so I have no fear that I can find relevant sources. But so far I've spent my time double-checking the reliability policies. So don't assume that my proposed assertion is on shaky ground simply because I haven't listed a source yet. Besides, how would I cite my source? Would I put a footnote on the project tag? Aristophanes68 (talk) 04:35, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * The overwhelmingly prevalent understanding of "Jew" relates to that of the religious identity. That of course includes those Jews who are religiously nonobservant. There is the distinctly minority view that "Jew" relates to identity with only minimal emphasis on its religious component. But that is not the mainstream view and undue weight should not be given to that perspective.


 * In what line of work do you "…treat Jewish American identity as an ethnicity…"? Bus stop (talk) 12:36, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Some sources
In the book The Jews of North America by Moses Rischin (Multicultural History Society of Ontario), several authors use the term Jewish ethnicity several times in reference to US and Canadian Jewish culture and history. In his preface, Rischin takes the notion of Jewish ethnicity as a starting point, as do Arthur Goren in his article (p.63), Barbara Kirshenblatt-Gimblett (p.86ff.), Deborah Dash Moore (p.105ff.), and William Toll (p.153ff.). In Race and Ethnic Relations: American and Global Perspectives, Martin N. Marger devotes a section to the future of Jewish American ethnicity, showing how some observers fear it is being lost, while others see it as maintaining its strength even as it adapts to U.S. culture (p.333). In Jewish Survival: The Identity Problem at the Close of the Twentieth Century by Ernest Krausz and Gitta Tulea, Eliezer Ben-Rafael discusses Jewish cultural ethnicity (p.60), and Samuel C. Heilman discusses the growth of ethnic conceptions of Jewish identity in response to U.S. ideas of ethnicity (p.80), while Stephen Sharot argues that the idea of ethnic Jewishness has been common for the past 200 years (p.90). ---It's late, I need to get to bed, but I was able to find those sources with one Google Books search, so it seems to me that there are plenty of valid sources discussing the ethnicity of American Jews. Can I add the tag now??? Aristophanes68 (talk) 05:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "Jewish cultural ethnicity?" That is mumbo jumbo.


 * Discussing "…the growth of ethnic conceptions of Jewish identity…" is not the same as Jews already constituting an "ethnic group" within the United States.


 * Jews as a whole are not according to most sources an "ethnicity," yet few sources will fail to mention religious membership. They represent one of the three religious groups that comprise the Abrahamic religions.


 * There exists a minority view that Jews are an "ethnicity." It is a minority view. It should not be given undue weight. The tag you are proposing hanging on this article is a heavy-handed way of representing what is only a minority view. Bus stop (talk) 13:17, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * the Jews are considered an ethnic group by most scholars--for example in the standard source on ethnic groups in the US, Stephan Thernstrom, ed.  Harvard encyclopedia of American ethnic groups‎ (1980). -- indeed, according to books.google.com about 100 different pages (by dozens of scholars) reference "Jews." Rjensen (talk) 19:23, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


 * 100 pages tangentially touching upon Jews in one book which has a title including the term "Ethnic Groups" does not constitute "most sources." Most sources mention the religious aspect of the group first and foremost.


 * I must quickly add that religious observance is not a necessity for membership or even a hallmark of membership. The majority of Jews are nonobservant. They do not need membership in the "ethnic group" called Jews because Judaism has always held that failure to practice the religion detracts in no way from being Jewish. The punctiliously observant Jew is equally as "Jewish" as the nonobservant Jew.


 * A minority view maintains that Jews constitute an "ethnic group." Undue weight would be given to a minor point of view by hanging the proposed tag on this article or even some of the the other articles on Jews.


 * An article treating the subject can handle that viewpoint with nuance. Hanging the proposed tag without explanation on this article would just be misleading and would serve to promote a point of view that at this time has little currency. Bus stop (talk) 20:30, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Bus Stop for reasons unknown does not like the Harvard Encyclopeda in which dozens of scholars refer to Jews as an ethnic group, nor the half dozen books cited by Aristophanes68. Problem is that Bus Stop has not cited any of his sources--it seems to be all personal opinion. He needs to cite the scholars, if any, on which he is supposedly relying or move on and leave this article alone. Rjensen (talk) 00:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Bus stop, you have been shown many, many reliable sources that state that Jews are an ethnic group. The source brought by Rjensen above is alone enough to confirm the fact. In reply, you have simply re-iterated your personal beliefs, while failing to bring any sources supporting them. This is the same topic and POV that got you banned from Wikipedia, as I recall. You were allowed back in when you promised to stop this disruptive behavior. If you continue trying to impose your personal POV on Wikipedia in opposition to the sources, I will re-open that discussion. Jayjg (talk) 00:31, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Jayjg, I have brought about 35 dictionary definitions for terms such as "Jew" and "Jewish." Terms such as "ethnicity" and "ethnic" are scarce as hen's teeth in those dictionary definitions. You are arguing for providing undue weight to a distinctly minority view that holds that Jews constitute an "ethnic group." There may be some truth to that. There may be some sources to support that. But there is not enough support for the unambiguous hanging of a tag on the article asserting what is little more than a minority perspective. There is no opportunity for the expressing of nuance in the hanging of that tag. It hangs there mutely, imputing to Judaism a component and a quality that is in reality only slightly supported by sources. That label is hung with equal importance to two other tags: "WikiProject Jewish history," and "WikiProject United States." The article, History of the Jews in the United States, is clearly related to the first two tags. It is far less clearly related to "WikiProject Ethnic groups." That implication represents the promotion of a very scarcely held viewpoint. In point of fact there is very little support in sources for Jews comprising an "ethnic group," especially in the United States. The implication is ludicrous, if you have a sense of humor. But more to the point we have multiple dictionary definitions that barely mention this much ballyhooed "ethnic" component. Do you think the dictionaries just forgot to mention that Jews were an "ethnic group?" Bus stop (talk) 02:35, 15 October 2009 (UTC)


 * 1) WikiProject Ethnic groups is specifically takes a broad definition of the term "ethnic group". The intent is to have an approach that will work with anything from a tribe to a nationality.
 * 2) The term "Jew" can refer either to ethnicity or to religion. Inconveniently, we don't have two different common terms (as, for example "Greek" and "Greek Orthodox"). But speaking as an entirely secular person of Jewish ethnicity, I am certainly a Jew, and I don't know of any religious Jew who would not count me as one simply because I am not a believer.
 * 3) Dictionaries rarely refer to any group as an "ethnic group", because the term is contextual. For example, few call Romanians in Romania, or Hungarians in Hungary, an "ethnic group": they are only usually called that in the context where a different ethnicity is locally dominant. Hence, Hungarians in Romania are thought of as an ethnic group, but that isn't the kind of thing that will show up in a dictionary. - Jmabel | Talk 22:32, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Dictionary definitions of "Jewish" and "Jew"
For the term "Jewish," found here:

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Jewish: Of or relating to the Jews or their culture or religion.

Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition: Jewish: 1. of Judaism: relating to or practicing Judaism; 2. of Jews: relating to or belonging to a people descended from the ancient Hebrews

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary, 11th Edition: Jewish: of, relating to, or characteristic of the Jews; also : being a Jew

Cambridge International Dictionary of English: Jewish: a member of a race of people whose traditional religion is Judaism

Wiktionary: Jewish: 1. Being a Jew, or relating to Jews, their religion or their culture; 2. Yiddish

Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th Ed.: Jewish: of or having to do with Jews or Judaism; loosely, Yiddish

The Wordsmyth English Dictionary-Thesaurus: Jewish: 1. of or pertaining to Jews, their customs, or their religion; 2. (informal) Yiddish

Infoplease Dictionary: Jewish: 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Jews or Judaism: Jewish customs; 2. Informal.Yiddish

Dictionary.com: Jewish: 1. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Jews or Judaism: Jewish customs; 2. Informal, Yiddish.

UltraLingua English Dictionary: Jewish: Of or relating to Jews or their culture or religion: “a Jewish wedding”; Also called: Judaic

Cambridge Dictionary of American English: Jewish: Jew, a person whose religion is Judaism, or a person related by birth to the ancient peoples of Israel; Jewish: of or related to Jews

Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia: Jewish: Jew: entire article, too long to quote

Online Plain Text English Dictionary: Jewish: Of or pertaining to the Jews or Hebrews; characteristic of or resembling the Jews or their customs; Israelitish

Webster's Revised Unabridged, 1913 Edition: Jewish: Of or pertaining to the Jews or Hebrews; characteristic of or resembling the Jews or their customs; Israelitish

Rhymezone: Jewish: of or relating to Jews or their culture or religion

AllWords.com Multi-Lingual Dictionary: Jewish: 1. The Yiddish language; 2. Of or relating to Jews, their religion or their culture

Webster's 1828 Dictionary: Jewish: Pertaining to the Jews or Hebrews

Free Dictionary: Jewish: of or relating to Jews or their culture or religion; Of or pertaining to the Jews or Hebrews; characteristic of or resembling the Jews or their customs; Israelitish; Of, pertaining to, or characteristic of Judaism

Mnemonic Dictionary: Jewish: of or relating to Jews or their culture or religion

WordNet 1.7 Vocabulary Helper: Jewish: Jewish, Judaic -- (of or relating to Jews or their culture or religion; Jew, Hebrew, Israelite -- (a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties)

LookWAYup Translating Dictionary/Thesaurus: Jewish: Jew Hebrew Israelite; synonym Judaic

Dictionary/thesaurus: Jewish: Of or relating to the Jews or their culture or religion; See Usage Note at Jew: Jew: 1. An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture; 2. A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism; 3. A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah

For the term "Jew," found here:

Compact Oxford English Dictionary: Jew: a member of the people whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins to the ancient Hebrew people of Israel

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: Jew: 1. An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture; 2. A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism; 3. A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah

Encarta® World English Dictionary, North American Edition: Jew: 1. believer in Judaism: somebody whose religion is Judaism; 2. member of Semitic people: a member of a Semitic people descended from the ancient Hebrews, sharing cultural and religious ties based on Judaism; 3. somebody from ancient Judea: somebody who lived or was born in ancient Judea

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary, 11th Edition: Jew: 1 a : a member of the tribe of Judah b : Israelite; 2 : a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the sixth century b.c. to the first century a.d.; 3 : a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people; 4 : one whose religion is Judaism

Cambridge International Dictionary of English: Jew: a member of a race of people whose traditional religion is Judaism

Wiktionary: Jew: 1. An adherent of Judaism 2. A person who claims a cultural or ancestral connection to the Jewish people (see secular Jew)

Webster's New World College Dictionary, 4th Ed.: Jew: 1. a person descended, or regarded as descended, from the ancient Hebrews of Biblical times; 2. a person whose religion is Judaism

The Wordsmyth English Dictionary-Thesaurus: Jew: 1. one who is, or is regarded as, a descendant of the Biblical Hebrews; 2. a person whose religion is Judaism, or who adheres to the culture derived from Judaism

Infoplease Dictionary: Jew: 1. one of a scattered group of people that traces its descent from the Biblical Hebrews or from postexilic adherents of Judaism; Israelite; 2. a person whose religion is Judaism; 3. a subject of the ancient kingdom of Judah

Dictionary.com: Jew: 1. one of a scattered group of people that traces its descent from the Biblical Hebrews or from postexilic adherents of Judaism; Israelite; 2. a person whose religion is Judaism; 3. a subject of the ancient kingdom of Judah

Online Etymology Dictionary: Jew: too complicated to quote

UltraLingua English Dictionary: Jew: A person belonging to the worldwide group descended from the ancient Israelites (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties; Also called: Hebrew; (plus more info on Conservative, Orthodox, Reform…)

Cambridge Dictionary of American English: Jew: a person whose religion is Judaism, or a person related by birth to the ancient peoples of Israel

Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia: Jew: A Jew (Hebrew: Yehudi יֵהוּדֹי) is a member of the Jewish people, or one who practices Judaism

Online Plain Text English Dictionary: Jew: Originally, one belonging to the tribe or kingdom of Judah; after the return from the Babylonish captivity, any member of the new state; a Hebrew; an Israelite

Webster's Revised Unabridged, 1913 Edition: Jew: Originally, one belonging to the tribe or kingdom of Judah; after the return from the Babylonish captivity, any member of the new state; a Hebrew; an Israelite (there is more, which I have not quoted, but which seems not particularly relevant)

Rhymezone: Jew: a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties

AllWords.com Multi-Lingual Dictionary: Jew: An adherent of Judaism; A person who claims a cultural or ancestral connection to the Jewish people (see secular Jew)

Webster's 1828 Dictionary: Jew: A Hebrew or Israelite

Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1898): Jew: (doesn't seem relevant)

Free Dictionary: Jew: a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties; (there is much more of interest at this site, but nothing that I think is all that relevant to this discussion)

Mnemonic Dictionary: Jew: a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties

WordNet 1.7 Vocabulary Helper: Jew: Hebrew, Israelite -- (a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties) (a lot more found here)

LookWAYup Translating Dictionary/Thesaurus: Jew: a person belonging to the worldwide group claiming descent from Jacob (or converted to it) and connected by cultural or religious ties

Dictionary/thesaurus: Jew: 1. An adherent of Judaism as a religion or culture; 2. A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism; 3. A native or inhabitant of the ancient kingdom of Judah.

Please note the sparsity of instances in which the term "ethnic" comes up. I think it comes up only once. "Ethnicity" does not come up at all, in about 35 definitions of the two words Jewish and Jew. Clearly there is little support, in dictionary definitions, for ethnicity as an important part of the concepts of the terms Jewish and Jew. Bus stop (talk) 01:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * The discussion is here. Please stop replicating it on two Talk: pages. Jayjg (talk) 02:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Jayjg, it is only partially found there, as I have now listed dictionary definitions for both "Jewish" and "Jew." Bus stop (talk) 02:46, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * They're irrelevant, as explained where the discussion is actually happening. And that isn't here. Jayjg (talk) 03:00, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Jayjg, can you please tell me where the discussion is "actually happening?" Should I not respond to you where you speak to me because that is not where the discussion is "actually happening?" Bus stop (talk) 03:22, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * See my comment of 02:19, 15 October 2009 above, and follow the link there. Not that you really have to, since you've been commenting there steadily for days. Jayjg (talk) 23:30, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No I have not. This is my first comment there. I believe it is the first contact I have ever had with that article or its associated Talk page. Bus stop (talk) 02:57, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Immigration of Eastern European Jews - ambiguity
The current article text reads:
 * From Russia alone the emigration rose from an annual average of 4,100 in the decade 1871-80 to an annual average of 20,700 in the decade 1881-90. Additional measures of persecution in Russia in the early nineties and continuing to the present time have resulted in large increases in the emigration, England and the United States being the principal lands of refuge.

There is an ambiguity as to what is being referred to by the phrase "in the early nineties". If we are talking about the early 1890s, then that is an awfully long period of time (120 years!) to be covering with just one sentence. If, on the other hand, we are talking about the early 1990s, then there is an awfully long gap (100 years!) that is not discussed at all. In general, this paragraph needs to be expanded to cover Jewish emigration from the USSR and Warsaw Pact countries during the years until the end of WWII and then from WWII to the dissolution of the USSR and finally the last 20 years since the dissolution. I don't know enough to do the job myself but I can tell that there is an important piece of the story missing.

--Pseudo-Richard (talk) 03:27, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
 * It's referring to the 1890s, and yes, that material should be expanded. Jayjg (talk) 07:36, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

File:Synagogue D-Day3.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Synagogue D-Day3.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on June 6, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-06-06. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks!  howcheng  {chat} 16:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Question about this pic
How did the Rabbi at the synagogue know which day was going to be "D" Day, when it is clear that the invasion took the Germans by surprise?

I suppose we can presume that after the invasion had actually commenced the news reached the US, and perhaps the time lag means the 6th June 1944 commenced somewhat later in the US than the coast of Normandy.

Amandajm (talk) 15:09, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Beginnings of anti-Semitism in the U.S.
I tried to remove the following false assertion: "Anti-Jewish sentiment started around the time of the American Civil War" but was reverted by User:Malik Shabazz with the note "See History of antisemitism in the United States for more information." I took his advice and read that other article and it proves my point that, of course anti-Semitism existed in the U.S. before the Civil War. In the lead, the article makes the obvious point that "scholars have asserted that no period in American Jewish history was free of antisemitism." It specifically discusses the anti-Semitism of Peter Stuyvesant, the director-general of New Amsterdam (now New York City). Jews in the colonial era were barred from certain professions and holding public office in many places.

Not only does the incorrect statement need to be removed, but this article should have more about anti-Semitism in the colonial and antebellum eras. —D. Monack talk 20:08, 1 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry about that. The other article says "The first incident of anti-Jewish sentiment was recorded during the American Civil War, when General Ulysses S. Grant issued an order ...", which I read to support the statement in this article. But the statement in this article was much broader than "the first incident", so I've undone my edit. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Investment Banking
Did the German Jews who founded investment banks have any connection with the German-Jewish banking families (like Rotschild), or was it complete coincidence that they started investment banks as well? Would it be common for members of the prominent banking families to emigrate to the states and found branches of their banks there? Also, if Jews settled mostly in the South, than why were there more Jewish Union solders than Confederates?--24.62.109.225 (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Antisemitism
Rjensen, I would like to explain why I think it's important to describe in this page incidents as this mom who complains about her son's harassment. First, I added another source to the article (I find CBS pretty reliable). Second, I don't think this is a "trivia" fact. I find cases of youngsters describe themselves as "Jews Incinerator" quite sever. This is the next generation- the world will build according to their perceptions and their opinions. I don't think this was kind of a prank, and it settles with the antisemitism that constantly spreading in the world (you can check that in the new ADL report). A group that declares itself as a racist, and calls for disposal of the jews- fits to the subject of Antisemitism in the United States.ScottyNolan (talk) 20:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * ScottyNolan, you seem to be confused about which article this is. It is History of the Jews in the United States, not Antisemitism in the United States. Nor is it 2014 incidents in the lives of the Jews in the United States. Please familiarize yourself with WP:NOTNEWS. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:16, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Malik Shabazz, I'm actually familiar with WP:NOTNEWS, thank you. But I still believe that the case above is more than just news. It reflects the mood, the thoughts of some young people across U.S. And it is another peace in the puzzle of "History of Jews in the U.S.", because it comes as a sequel to the deteriorating situation of antisemitiam there.ScottyNolan (talk) 20:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No -- if the trivial "incident is revealing there will be a serious article about it by a serious expert. we should all wait for it to appear. Rjensen (talk) 21:26, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Jewish community of Palm Springs, CA Area
Hello, I added sources to back up the statement there are 12 Jewish synagogues or places of worship in the Palm Springs area. I believe there are 2 in Desert Hot Springs, 3 in Palm Springs, Chabad in Rancho Mirage with Palm Springs branch, 3 in Palm Desert, 2 Messianic Jewish branches (based in Cathedral City and Indio), and one in Indio. Here are some links on my AOL search on this topic on the Jewish community of Palm Springs, CA area. http://search.aol.com/aol/search?enabled_terms=&s_it=client97_searchbox&q=Jewish+population+Palm+Springs+area Adinneli (talk) 08:16, 23 March 2016 (UTC)


 * The telephone book and internet directory you cited are not reliable sources. Also, Messianic Jewish houses of worship are not Jewish synagogues. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 11:55, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Did the new deal have a left wing?
Lots of historians argue the new deal had a left wing, typically locating its base in New York City, among Jews, the Federal Writers Project, the CIO, urban blacks etc. Here is some evidence: 1) Steve Fraser, Gary Gerstle (1989): the closing off in the 1940s of a social democratic initiative that the left wing of the New Deal and progressive elements of the labor movement had nurtured since the mid--1930s. 2) Thomas Doherty - 2013 The gesture was classic FDR, showing sympathy for the [Spanish] Republican cause, shoring up his left wing, and not lifting a finger for tangible help. 3)  David Stebenne, in US NEWS Feb 2016: Re Dem party candidate debate: To Bernie Sanders, “progressive” evokes the spirit of the left wing of the New Deal coalition.  4) Karen Ferguson, "Black Politics in New Deal Atlanta" (2003): ''teachers, economists, and lawyers, and most of them under forty-five years of age, this group of "social engineers," as some of them described themselves, became a crucial element in the New Deal's progressive left wing, which sought to overturn the South's extreme racial and class exploitation. ... Members of the Washington DC 'black cabinet' were the best known of this group. 5) Henry L. Feingold, "Zion in America: The Jewish Experience from Colonial Times to the present" (2013): It was the welfare-state aspect of the New Deal, rather than Roosevelt's foreign policy, which attracted the Jewish voter. The war and the holocaust tended to reinforce the left-wing political sentiments of many Jewish voters. 6) Julia L. Mickenberg (2006)  in the words of Ellen Schrecker, as “the unofficial left wing of the New Deal,” with supporters of the party active in labor organizations, artist groups, reform movements, and the New Deal administration itself.  7) Jerrold Hirsch - 2004 on Federal Writers Project:  New Dealers and other left-wing groups welcomed an alliance of all liberals and leftists.   8) Hirano, and Snyder "Journal of Politics" Feb 2007: the Democratic Party co-opted the left-wing policy position beginning with the passage of the New Deal agenda.'' 9) Robinson and Eisenstadt, "Prospects". Jan1997: In 1940 ''Ralph Bunche interviewed Supreme Court Associate Justice Hugo Black about Southern race relations as part of research for the Carnegie Corporation. The two men were both on the left wing of the New Deal, were suspicious of capitalism, and skeptical of the legal system's ability to bring about social change. 10) "A Companion to Franklin D. Roosevelt" (2011): Hillman led in organizing the CIO Political Action Committee (CIO-PAC). With the participation of activists from left-wing unions, which had returned to a pro-FDR stance, the CIO-PAC played a critical role in In mobilizing the working-class vote  for Roosevelt [in 1944].'' Rjensen (talk) 07:51, 20 March 2018 (UTC)


 * As I wrote on my talk page, this article was changed to say that Jews provided strong support "for the most left-wing programs of the New Deal". There is no question that Jews were supportive of left-wing causes, and they were supportive of Roosevelt and the New Deal, but that doesn't create the syllogism that New Deal programs were left wing. They were not. As one of your sources indicates, the programs of the New Deal were intended to blunt left-wing proposals for radical social change. ("the Democratic Party co-opted the left-wing policy position beginning with the passage of the New Deal agenda") — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:01, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * If you rank New Deal proposals from right to left, Jewish support was higher the further left you went. Rjensen (talk) 02:08, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Jewish Cuisine being a Driving Force for Immigration
I will be adding to “History of the Jews in the United States” Wikipedia entry in order to address how Jewish cuisine played a large role in the immigration of Jewish people to America. Also, I will be adding how Jewish cuisine contributed to the Americanization of the Jewish people. In order to do this, I will be using A Hungering for American by Hasia Diner, an American Historian that studied at University of Wisconsin-Madison and University of Chicago and has been awarded the Guggenheim Fellowship for Humanities. If anyone would like to discuss my prospered changes, please reach out on the talk page.

"History of the Jews in the United States." Wikipedia. October 29, 2018. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States#1880–1925.

--Isaac1848 (talk) 23:37, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This looks like a promising addition, but with very little detail, it's hard to know what you want to add. How DID food play a role in immigration? How DID food contribute to Americanization? Very vague. And what section of the article did you think of adding this information to? Also, are you sure you mean "cuisine" - which is the style of making food? I don't think Diner focuses as much on cuisine when describing the reasons for migration, as she does on hunger and kosher practices. Also, the title of her book isn't A Hungering for American but Hungering for America.Chapmansh (talk) 23:16, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Leadership in vegetarian causes
Late 20th century vegetarians have long noted the large number of Jewish leaders within vegetarian and animal advocacy movements, organizations, supprting professions, and causes. That this may express interest and a predisposition towards an certain type of interest (in dietary scruples, for instance) may have been explored, but leadership in advancing both provincial and global motivations for, say, vegetarian or macrobiotic or 'natural hygiene' diets has been noted. It is not greater than half, but it is significant and notable. A list of such persons with Wikipedia articles could easily be started. MaynardClark (talk) 21:07, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Improvement on 1930s Section
This article lacks information about certain restrictions imposed on the public lives of American Jews in the 1930s. I intend to solve this issue by adding a 200-300 word paragraph under the subheading "1930s" that describes restrictions on Jews from entering certain universities, professions, and housing communities across the United States. This information is based on scholarly work by expert of Jewish American history Hasia R. Diner in The Jews of the United States, 1654-2000 (University of California Press: 2004). If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Thral100 (talk) 07:15, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2018 and 4 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Isaac1848.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:42, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2019 and 5 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Thral100.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)