Talk:History of the Philippines (900–1565)

Page History Notes
This article was split from History of the Philippines (Before 1521) and while it has been restructured somewhat, its overall skeleton was developed from that article. For page history details on this article prior to the split, go to that page. -- Alternativity (talk) 05:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Discussion elsewhere concerning this article
Please see the discussion at Talk:Prehistory of the Philippines. As far as this article is concerned, that amounts to a proposal that some material from that article be merged into this article. Comments there would be appreciated. Thanks. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 02:04, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Royal Opinion: The essence of all these is when Maharlika (covering the present Philippines thru Guam, Caroline Islands and to Hawaii) was colonial era, its sovereignty was based on ruling class uphold by the Sri Vigaya sattellite Country of the Majapahit Empire of Maharaja Pamirawasa of India to the Tagean ruling class and family clan. Spouses of this ruling class, no doubt as in Seri (present capital of Brunei) family ruling class was Zein Ul-Abidin who was married to Iskander the daughter of  the Majapahit Empire's Sovereign Head, Maharaja Pamirawasa. Naturally, we foresee that Zein Ul-Abidin was the first Vigayan Ruler who had overall authority for his father inlaw throughout the Satellite country state (later referred to as Malayas) wherein relatives were the ruling class family clan throughout Maharlika comprising of the Philippines, Malayas, Caroline Islands and far reaching Hawaii. After the fall of the Majapahit Empire in the 12th century, The son inlaw, Zein Ul-Abidin, in Seri established the first Sultanate of Bruney (Brunei) seated as Sultan Mohamad Shah with continuing dominion throughout Maharlika through the ruling class family clans who were His Inlaws. In turn His son Sultan Hassan Bolkiah had suzerainty throughout Maharlika then comprising of Selurong (Luzon) and or Manilad (Manila), Visayas, Maguindanao (as by the Maguindanao Family clan daughter married to Aliywa (Karim Ul-Makdum-Kabungsuwan) the brother of the Brunei Sultan; and far reaching the Malayas which included North Borneo-sabah and likely thru far reaching Guam, Caroline Islands and Havvaii (Hawaii). Raja Sulayman in Luzon, Raja Humabon in Visayas, Sultan Aliywa Kabungsuwan seated both in Malabang Lanao and in Dulawan Cotabato for the island of Mindanao, Sultan Shariful Hashim of Sulu who also took over the political authority of his Father inlaw-Raja Baginda Ali, Ali Panjungan in Kota Kanibalu, Johore in Sempurna, Gandjungan in Kaula Lampur and other relative ruling class family clan far reaching Raja Tulofufu of Guam and King Khameahmea of Hawaii. Over centuries of changes in government systems influenced by colonial encroachments and administration, the Tagean ( or Tallano as referred by prior trade visitors from Italy) family clan of the Bolkiah dominion, entered into agreement recognizing the Tagean as being the owners of the said lands, respective of other relatives throughout the former Maharilika country Estates. These colonial administrations ratified the recognition of ownership thru the already worldwide established Torrens System. Recognition by Spain, then the United States and thru the present Philippine republic. The Tagean/Bolkiah clan wanting of recognition for the protection of the Clan and the people that foreign powers may negotiate their intents and purposes of colonization thru the clan, while foreign powers recognition of the clan owners may have c0onsensus affect upon their doings during colonization stints. Thou under the Torrens System, it is stipulated that land titles thru absolute Deed of Sales are to the sole ownerships of the land buyer then legally as by the Torrens System, said lands are tacitly still belonging to these Family Clans, as by consanguinity-kinship. Yes, there are many present heirs from all over the former Maharlika who tacitly owns these. Tacitly, because ownership is now only within the purview of the TORRENS SYSTEM and the sovereignty of the country state can only be recognized as by the 1945 founding of the United Nations Organization and as by charter membership, only. Thus this said country state no longer legally a sovereign country as it was before. The only proof as being then a legally sovereign state is by treaty agreement, wherein none was made official. However, proof of such agreement between two countries is the "Torrens Title of lands" issued. Yes, the rightful owners are indeed the owners only tacitly, while may be constitutionally existing owners whenever these owners/heirs organized themselves of a central government, and with UN charter membership, their lands may be then recognized as sovereignty country-states. The only barring of this notion is the established Torrens System administering these lands under the sovereignty and territorial integrity of other sovereign states, otherwise. We can only be proud to say that we are tacit heir-owners of their lands and country-states. And we shall stand tall as being th elite class of society. HRH. Sharif Maulana Paduka Ahmad Carpenter Arpa-V ibni Maharaja Adinda Taup Angging (Anddin) Zein Ul-Abidin Al Marhum Sultan Sharif ul-hashim Abu'Bkr Mohamad Shah. www.royalsultanate.weebly.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.207.151.119 (talk) 16:10, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

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A painting of a mother and child belonging to the Maharlika class.
Just a quick speculation on the background. Isn't the torogan supposed to be only in Mindinao? Didn't anyone but the moros live in small straw huts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.147.20.110 (talk) 21:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

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500 AD (Removed assertion)
Hi all, I temporarily had to remove the following assertion from the page: "...making 900 AD the start of pre-colonial Philippines in the viewpoint of experts in the field. However, the existence of a complex society by 900 AD, as seen in the facts in the LCI, presumes pre-colonial Philippine societies to be much older than the official estimate as a time is needed for the development of such complex society." I also had to change the date of the period back from 500 AD to 900 AD.

I personally think the reasoning presented here is sound, but first of all, it can't stay on the page without a citation. Additionally, according to wikipedia policy, this page should indeed contain "the viewpoint of experts in the field." Sorry. The quote just can't stay unless you have a reliable expert/scholarly source arguing the same thing. - Alternativity (talk) 11:59, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

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 * Sugbo trade.jpg

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Leaders of Spanish expeditions
I'm placing a self-contradictory tag in the Spanish expeditions section because the leaders of the four expeditions following Magellen's one in 1521 listed in the table differ from the leaders listed in the Subsequent expeditions section. The table does not list the 1526 expedition and the section does not list the 1564 expedition. The list is cite-supported, but I do not have access to the cited source. I imagine that this is easily resolvable but, not being familiar with this myself, I'm not going to try to research it online. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 09:40, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Article needs work
I recently made a significant series of edits which surfaced a problem I perceived with this article based on info contained in this paper by William Henry Scott that I had happened to stumble across. The apparent problem is that the article seems to have big holes in it, in that it focuses on only the part of Philippine society in this period which left some recorded history, giving no mention to other societal categories that, though they left no recorded history, nonetheless were a part of the history of the Philippines in this period. Unfortunately, I broke one arm shortly after making these changes and that has curtailed my WP activity sharply. Even without that, I am uneducated re the relevant details needed to add sections for the three social classes my changes left looking slighted here. Without such sections, the article is very imbalanced. Also, IMHO, it gives undue weight to the Laguna Copperplate Inscription (LCI). I'm hoping that some editors will step in here, clean up whatI have done incompletely, and add the missing content I am unable to add. The Scott paper seem to point the way towards a lot of that.

Actually, I am not convinced that the LCI is the first known bit of Rhiippine recorded history. The Scott article mentions the Hanunoo, which appears to be a tribe of the Mangyan group of tribes and, looking at that WP article I see: "A theory suggests that the Southern tribes were already present by 900 AD while the Northern tribes are believed to have arrived hundreds of years ahead of their Southern peers. The Spanish authorities had documented their existence since their arrival in the 16th century. However, historians suggest that the Mangyans may have been the first Filipinos to trade with the Chinese. Examples of this relationship are seen in the burial caves, as porcelains and other potteries abound. However, not much ethnographic research has been made except for the tribal and linguistic differences that may lead to the indication that the tribes can be treated separately.[citation needed] [...] The Mangyans spread their stories through oral tradition. A select group of stories were preserved in poems and written in syllabic Indic writing. These poems were carved into materials like bamboo with a sharp object. [...] The indigenous Mangyans offer a myriad of culturally rich artifacts that give insight into their culture and trade. The people living in Southern Mindoro during the pre-Hispanic era are exceptional in their weaving, pottery, and system of writing. [...] Their system of writing, called Surat Mangyan, is a pre-Hispanic syllabic system and is believed to be of Indic origin. It is still practiced today and is still being taught in different Mangyan schools of Oriental Mindoro." but, as I said, I am uneducated in this area. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 06:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC)