Talk:History of the telephone

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Proper article needed
We need a proper article at History of telephone.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I like your disambiguation page History of the telephone but I think it would be a mistake to turn it into a full sized article because that would result in a call for a merger in a few weeks. Better to keep it small with a sentence or two for each reference saying: If you want recent history go here, if you want the early history of the Bell companies and their conflicts with rival companies go here, if you want the early history of telephone technology go here, etc. Greensburger 19:44, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, this should be the main article for the 'history of the telephone'. Timeline is something different, invention may deserve its own subarticle, but this should be a full-fledget article linked from articles like telephone, with subsections like 'invention' or 'history of mobile phones'. This is a standard way - see History_of_communication.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:48, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

List of sources
Just some book out of copyright that may help with information. J. D. Redding 19:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Philipp Reis: Inventor of the Telephone By Silvanus Phillips Thompson Published 1883 http://books.google.com/books?id=YkHu_MiyFSkC

Bell's Electric Speaking Telephone: Its Invention, Construction, Application, Modification, and ... By George Bartlett Prescott Published 1884 http://books.google.com/books?id=WsMgAAAAMAAJ

The History of the Telephone, By Casson, Herbert Newton, Published 1910 http://books.google.com/books?id=cw4LAAAAIAAJ

A Dictionary of Electrical Words, Terms and Phrases By Edwin James Houston Published 1903 http://books.google.com/books?id=T6YJAAAAIAAJ

Cyclopedia of Applied Electricity: Practical Guide for Electricians, Mechanics, Engineers ... By American School of Correspondence Published 1905 http://books.google.com/books?id=kjIKAAAAIAAJ

Must the inventor build the invention for it to be called inventing?
In the 1800s, the US Patent Office required working models to prove they would work when built. After a Patent Office fire that destroyed their collection of models, the rules were changed to permit "constructive reduction to practice" which meant a published written description with drawings in sufficient detail that a person of ordinary skill in the art would be able to build one that worked, without having to reinvent it. Examiners do not require working models for mechanical or electrical inventions unless they suspect the proposed invention would violate some physical law. For example perpetual motion machines. The water transmitter of Elisha Gray was clearly described in his patent caveat which constructively reduced it to practice. But it was not published. Bell was able to get a patent with broad claims, because both Meucci's caveat and Gray's caveat were abandoned before publication. Greensburger (talk) 19:40, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Nomenclature
I'd like to see some history of the use of the word, "telephone." As in the article, the first incarnation was called a "speaking telegraph," so at some point the word "telephone" came into being. I'm curious as to whether this history has been written anywhere, but I haven't been able to find anything yet. Manys (talk) 17:24, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Inaccurate fact removed (expensive of a patent as a reason for Meucci not obtaining it)
A falsehood resided within this article, which has also been seen in numerous other explanations as to why Meucci didn't apply for a full patent in 1871 (as opposed to a 'patent caveat') before Bell obtained his full patent in March 1876.

This article previously read (section: --Invention of the telephone--):
 * "Bell was merely the first to patent the telephone, an "apparatus for transmitting vocal or other sounds telegraphically", 16 years after Meucci, who did not have sufficient funds to file a patent application, demonstrated his "teletrofono" in New York in 1860."

Bell's patent was revoked for "fraud and falsehood" on January 13, 1887. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.158.134.23 (talk) 14:04, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

However, as noted in another article: Antonio Meucci, a section previously read (section: --The caveat--):
 * "On December 12, 1871 Meucci set up an agreement with Angelo Zilio Grandi (Secretary of the Italian Consulate in New York), Angelo Antonio Tremeschin (entrepreneur), Sereno G. P. Breguglia Tremeschin (businessman), in order to constitute the Telettrofono Company. The constitution was notarized by Angelo Bertolino, a Notary Public of New York. Their society funded him $20, whereas $250 was needed in order to pay for that sort of patent. Meucci then only had the money to pay for a caveat on December 28, 1871 at the U.S. Patent Office....." (emphasis is mine).

Meucci advocates have often implied that a full patent cost $250 at that time. I was unable to find any use of the phrase "the equivalent of $250 in current dollars"; by default those advocating for Meucci implied that the patent cost was $250 at that time, and that he was too impoverished to be able to pay that cost for several years prior to Bell's application in 1876.

FACTS AS PER THE U.S. PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE:
 * "In 1861, the fee for obtaining a patent was $35, of which $15 was to be paid at the time of application and $20 when the patent was granted. In 1922, the patent filing fee increased from $15 to $20."
 * Source: Patent and Trademark Office. "The Story of the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office". Washington, D.C., Government Printing Office. Washington:IA-SuDocs, Rev. August 1988. iv, 50p. MC 89-8590. OCLC 19213162. SL 89-95-P. S/N 003-004-00640-4. $1.75. C 21.2:P 27/3/988  - - - - Note: the 1861 filing fee is listed on Pg. 11, and the 1922 filing fee is listed on Pg. 22.

Observations and conclusions: If a patent caveat cost $10 in 1871, it would have cost only $5 more to file for (apply for) a full patent. As noted in the Antonio Meucci article paragraph, his society had funded him with $20 prior to his caveat application. Meucci would not have been required to pay the remaining $20 for his patent until it had been awarded to him, at which time he would likely have had little trouble raising money from investors,  had (1) the U.S. Patent Office found his patent application viable and awarded him a patent, and (2) had he really invented a practical electric telephone , (since a working model was not required to be submitted with a patent application at that time).

Additionally, his protested poverty flies in the face of the facts that he was 'granted (full) patents in 1872, 1873, 1875, and 1876', which would have cost him $35 per patent, or at the very minimum $140, if he had received only one patent in each year.

Based on the above observations and conclusions of Meucci's funding and the true cost of filing for a 'full patent' application, I have removed the statement: "16 years after Meucci, who did not have sufficient funds to file a patent application, demonstrated his "teletrofono" in New York in 1860", since it is unsupported and contrary to the factual evidence supplied by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, i.e.: it cost $15 to file for a full patent application between 1861 and 1922.

--HarryZilber (talk) 17:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree with your deletion of the probably inaccurate words: "who did not have sufficient funds to file a patent application". However, the main cost in preparing a full patent application then and now was the lawyer's fee, not the filing fee. A caveat described the invention, but did not require claims. A patent application did/does require claims, which require the inventor's patent lawyer to do a careful search of the prior art so that the claims will be broad, but not anticipated by, nor obvious over, the prior art. Meucci's patent lawyer would spend less than an hour preparing the caveat, but several hours on a corresponding patent application.

The reason Meucci abandoned his caveat was probably for the same reason Gray abandoned his caveat. Their sponsors probably saw a profitable future in major improvements to technology with a proven market, but saw no future for the telephone. This was at a time when the main improvement desired for the telegraph was sending multiple messages on one (expensive) telegraph wire. They assumed that the telephone would be limited to one wire per caller and the caller would be a skilled telephone operator who, replacing a skilled telegraph operator, would read written messages to another skilled telephone operator over a dedicated wire. From the sponsor's point of view, which treated the telephone as a supposed improvement on the telegraph, there was clearly no future for such an inefficient method of communication. Maybe Meucci lacked sufficient funds for a telephone patent, but had ample funds for his other inventions that had sponsors.

Greensburger (talk) 03:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Herbert Casson's article "The Birth Of The Telephone"
I question whether this 1910 article is a reliable source. It reads like a fictional movie script, quoting words as if those words had been spoken, and stating as fact what people were thinking. Greensburger (talk) 02:01, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I do not see that these particular defects are prominent. It certainly isn't an encyclopedia article, as it is full of drama, one-sidedness and purple prose.  However, our fellow editor has not presented it as a source for any particular judgement or statement of fact, and it serves to present one important point of view of the time.  Jim.henderson (talk) 00:33, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

General critique of the article
The article is informative, yet in simple language; Not a lot of technical terms are used which makes the article easy to comprehend. The article went over some controversies and disputes as to who actually invented the telephone, and the article has really good arguments to make it's case. But there is a whole section of the article that does not cite a single source to back it up, which makes me wonder about the authenticity of the article and it's credibility. Telephone being such an important invention, I think that seven sources are very less, especially when six out of seven are not credible.

Source One is from the company AT&T's website which sound biased, since Alexander Gram Bell is among the founders of the company and which may cause confusion among reader as to believe the controversies or the AT&T website. The second website is the Ringer Website that sells ringer boxes. Number three citation is just a small paragraph but written by someone at Harvard university, but does not give any reliable sources; the links sends it to a search engine. Fourth source is a personal blog that does not provide a single source or any information about the author except the name. Sixth cited source is from a lobbing website that lobbies for the advancement of technology, which I may be inclined to except as a source, even though doesn't sound like a credible source.

Citations number five is the only credible source; it is a link to a PDF file that is basically a paper written in 1947 scanned. Even though the article is old, but is any original work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HIST406-10110848257Shoaib (talk • contribs) 04:37, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Development of the national and world-wide net?
I miss informations about the first developments of intercontinental/world-wide telephone connections via sea-cable.

Later via direct wireless? or satellite relay?

1866 the first stable intercontinantal sea-cable bridges Ireland to Newfoundland for telegraphy. See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegrafie for the world map of Telegraphie=telegraphy plus railway connections.

The infos in Global_network are a beginning ... --Helium4 (talk) 16:55, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

The picture of Bell speaking into an early telephone is from a 1926 silent film in which an actor plays Bell
The picture of the actor playing Bell was on the cover of an Arts & Entertainment DVD titled "Alexander Graham Bell" released in 1996, ISBN 0-7670-8212-5. A film clip lasting several seconds from the 1926 silent film is included in the A&E biography. The cover picture of the actor is one frame from this silent film.

When playing the A&E DVD, skip to Chapter 3 "The telephone". At about 7 minutes 4 seconds into Chapter 3, the silent film clip begins showing two actors playing Bell and Watson. About 4 seconds later, the narrator Jack Perkins introduces the 1926 film clip by saying "As portrayed in this early film biography, he said 'Mr. Watson, come here, I want to see you.' "

About 7 minutes 48 seconds into Chapter 3 is the Bell actor speaking into a replica of an early telephone. This includes the frame that is mistakenly identified as Bell. A few seconds later, there is a closeup of a third actor holding a different replica telephone. He is wearing a bow-tie and has popping eyes.

The 1926 silent film-clip frame of the actor playing Bell has left-right reversal and has a few vertical scratch marks, but is otherwise identical to the famous frame, with the same mottled wall covering in the background, that appears with cover art on the case of the A&E Biography DVD.

What was the name of the actor playing Bell? What was the title of the 1926 silent film? Greensburger (talk) 04:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Blah Pictures
There should be a gallery of old telephones, not just a gallery of claimants to the invention. A lot of old phone styles and new phone styles are missing. I like to saw logs! (talk)

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Additional image
Hello,

I added a new image to the article in the 21st century section to give an example of a current smartphone.

Women's usage in the 20th century
In this section it is stated that "In 1800, the first female operator was hired in Montreal." I don't know the original source or even what the date is supposed to be, but clearly the first female operator did not operate a phone 75 years before it was invented. Also, the statement itself is ambiguous or wrong. In other articles the timeline for first female operator is neither 1800 nor 1900, so unless it is referring specifically to the first female operator to operate in Montreal, something is off. I apologize that I don't have the technical knowledge to correct it myself. 67.219.94.105 (talk) 18:11, 10 February 2021 (UTC)Rex Beans

Telephone usage
Can you think of a good place for us to include information how many people were using the telephone at various points in history? There's Telephone although that's scoped to technological development as opposed to how people adopted and used the telephone.

I ask this wanting to include the following bit from The Information: A History, a Theory, a Flood: In 1890, 500,000 people were using the telephone. By 1914, that number grew to 10,000,000 people Stussll (talk) 01:21, 22 March 2021 (UTC)