Talk:Hoʻoponopono/Archive 1

Sermon
WP is not the place to put a sermon, as if it were true, nor the place to advertise one's religion or one's healing services. I have removed the sermon, the links, and inaccurate historical claims.

So far as I know, there is no evidence that ho'oponopono was practiced by pre-contact Hawaiians, nor any evidence of it before the 1950s. If there is published evidence, please cite it!

Contemporary Native Hawaiians believe a great many things are traditional that are in fact modern inventions or imports from other cultures. There is also a residuum of pre-contact practices. It is extremely difficult to sort out what is what. Oral tradition is no proof, because it is extremely vulnerable to distortion as it is passed along (at least informal oral tradition -- rhymed sacred texts, like the Kumulipo, are more durable). The only proof would be material that couldn't be distorted -- say, Hawaiian newpapers printed in the early 19th century. Zora 03:11, 26 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Zora, I have been agreeing with you but now I think it depends on the topic. When Hawaiians say traditionally there was a great flood, yes, that could be a recent import. But there is no Biblical reference to a family conference of forgiveness that I am aware of, nor was it documented as a practice of the missionary families or seafaring captains. I am not aware of any Chinese practice. So where would it have come from? Perhaps it is Tahitian? Marquesan? Or is it uniquely Hawaiian? Makana Chai 07:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Updated - just found a reference from Nupepa Kuokoa in 1863. We're getting there! Makana Chai (talk) 00:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Update to update. Spoke with translator Malcolm Naea Chun. He believes that the use of the word ho'oponopono in the context of the article in Nupepa Kuokoa in 1863 did not refer to a family conference. So I removed it for now. I did have someone look at all Hawaiian language newspapers on line from 1834 to 1860 and we didn't find anything! Research continues. Makana Chai (talk) 00:28, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

New to Ho'oponopono
This weekend was my first strong exposure to Ho'opnopono. After having been agnostic for 15 years or more - this draws me out of my post-new age trauma and into a mind of curiosity on the topic of man, faith and the Divine.

The aspects of Ho'oponopono that I was exposed to have similarities to Jasmuheen's work In Resonance (book) and there is some obvious similarities to A Course in Miracles (book) and books by Marianne Williamson.

Skardicus 23:55, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The kumu or teachers of Hawaiian traditions have a saying: "If it sounds New Age, it is." Makana Chai 09:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Old and New Ho'oponopono
Just back from Maui and my second Zero Limit's Seminar (relates to the book by the same name and the co-authors). I am nearing my first year as a practitioner of Morrnah Nalamaku Simeona's streamlined version translated through Ihaleakala Hew Len. My yearling impression is that nothing teaches Ho'oponopono like practicing it. I've been searching online for different schools of Ho'oponopono thought. The differences and the debates and the he-said she-said phenomena that I see in some circles of Traditionists vs. Self Identity through Ho'oponopono only weakens the face of Ho'oponopono to the world. Regardless of who is "right" or historically more accurate, when Dr. Hew Len paired up with Dr. Joe Vitale to write Zero Limits, Ho'oponopono (as a word at least) was launched into the main stream of our information-saturated world. The version I have learned teaches me that the only remedy I can apply to anything is within myself. Ho'oponopono infighting seems like an oxymoron to me. I am open to learning more about the traditional Ho'oponopono. Hopefully the traditionalists will have the patience and interest to contribute something to the mainstream as well. Mahalo!

Skardicus (talk) 08:57, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Please don't promote businesses or blogs
Aloha! As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia does not allow links or references to websites of commercial sites or blogs. Please cite published sources only. Thank you, Mahalo. Makana Chai 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Please explain
If you disagree with the revert please explain your reasoning here. Thank you. Makana Chai 18:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Early documentation
I just noticed in The Polynesian Family System in Ka'u Hawai'i Pukui refers to observing a ho'oponopono in 1936 by her relatives on Kauai. Did they bring ho'oponopono with them from big island or is this an endemic Kauai practice? Research continues. Makana Chai 18:06, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Explanation of edit of Mudstar's post
Thank you for coming by and editing. I have edited to make clear that the philosophy is Hew Len's, not necessarily traditional ho'oponopono. I removed the story about the ward of criminally insane -- sorry, there is no independent proof of that. I can tell you there is still a ward of criminally insane at the state hospital. Makana Chai 19:03, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

ho'oponopono again new
Hello Makana,

thks your welcome. I will do my best for as much references as possible. For this pls give some clear hints or examples of the article as your post did not explain which sources you think are missing. I think it would be fair and logical that you detail your request for sources a bit, when you ask this from others. A few big points will do it. - I used already very cautious words, I wrote as neutral as possible and I cited 14 sources. If you would read the sources they would cleared 2 things: I wrote exactly what Morrnah said in the interviews and the so called ho'oponopono which is in the old article is not from Morrnah but from Dr. Len. Will you let a wrong text in wikipedia?

You did not mention my sources, even I mentioned the pagenumbers. How many sources do you want? Before writing the article I have read the citing sources section several times. Sometimes and according to the philosophy of wikipedia it could be more useful for the community if at least there is a basic to work on it instead of holding it for unreliable. Shall I add, that Morrnah was living her last year between Jan. 1991 and Feb. 1992 in my home in Kirchheim/Germany? Why did she extra came in my home and did not stay in Hawai'i? Did I get information she wanted to give to the world in this way? To make clear differences between tradition, her way and Stan's way? Pls imagine, if one would write about Buddhism only what Buddha personally has left behind. What about Jesus? He did not leave a single written word from himself. Appropiate sources should be the magic word.

Concerning the former article: The first and the fourth para are the same. So one could be cancelled. The information is now so much watered down, that the text could stand for christian prayers as well. The second para has no contents at all (... a form of family or personal therapy). The third para belongs to the references not in the article. The fifth para has no source that this is ho'oponopono from Morrnah. On the other hand if you read my sources 10-14 you will get Morrnah Simeona in original and NO word of 100% responsibility for others.

Let's work together - on the normal placed article, not in the sandbox nobody is looking - and Thks again from Germany. --Michael Micklei (talk) 21:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Latest revision
Michael, thanks for working with me on this article. It is much better now! I just have one question. You quote Morrnah saying "in consequence you are the creator of your life circumstances. If you will feel sympathy or pity for somebody else's sufferings who does not belong to your family, this would indicate that you could also be involved in their problems." I don't see how this is much different from Hew Len? What am I missing? Mahalo. Makana Chai (talk) 23:54, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Hi Makana, Simeona's ho'oponopono is looked as a personal problem solving. Outside your social surroundings incl. nature there is only an involvement of you indicated, if you have a strong emotion to him/her or to the situation (pity, hate, love, anger and the like). In these cases you should carefully put the people and the situations in your process, limited to your emotions, e.g. the reason for your anger about this or that person. At Len's version you have to put everything what you hear, see, touch in the process, even wars, with indicating an emotion or not, as his theory is that you are 100% responsible about every actions of other people. To go deeper seems not useful for the moment, as the two systems are based meanwhile on too many differences in definitions, e.g. for responsibility, involvement, philosophy behind, cleansing, life, mind and so on. I will come back on this matter later, may be within another frame. So I also cut off this special line in the text. Ok? Many thks for your question. Michael Micklei (talk) 20:18, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Max Freedom Long as a source
Some may question my citing Long as a source. In my extensive research on ho'oponopono, including reviewing some of the Hawaiian language newspapers and all the respected authorities such as Malo, Pukui, etc., Long's accurate description of authentic ho'oponopono is the first documentation of the practice I have been able to find. I believe it's important to document earliest versions to counter arguments it is a recent invention. That does not mean that everything Long wrote about was authentic Hawaiian, but this was. Makana Chai (talk) 18:16, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Lapakahi
According to Hawaii Place Names Lapakahi is the name of the ahupuaa and the village is Koaie. For Koaie the same source says, that it is now a center for lāau lapaau. --ThT (talk) 21:05, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Mahalo. See change. Makana Chai (talk) 22:09, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Pictures
Someone came along and took out the hala fruit pic because it did not have proper copyright. Replaced with the best I could find for now, also replaced Lapakahi while I was at it. Makana Chai (talk) 19:27, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Translating article into other languages
Por favor si es posible, la edicion de este articulo Ho'oponopono en español. Gracias. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.8.88.105 (talk) 18:59, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi I'm italian, I'm studying languages at University, and I would like to translate this article into italian. Where shall I put my translation when it's done? I don't know how to manage to create the new italian voice. Thanks. Gianluca Ravanelli 151.55.26.185 (talk) 09:24, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello, first of all I suggest you to register and create a username, it is not mandatory, but it will make everything easier. You can read This. When you are ready you can then go here and click on "modifica questa pagina". -- ★ Pikks ★  MsG  09:47, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Biased sentence
Hi. In first paragraph of this article there is a biased sentences. "Hoʻoponopono approximates an indigenous culture in itself with surprising relevance to post-modern thinking and authentic human needs." I cannot fix it, because my level of English is under that is needed. Please, change it. Lin linao (talk) 02:08, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

No scientific study
There are no studies cited, no statistics, no facts. If none can be found, that should be cited on the page aswell. If such studies can be found, they should be listed and discussed. There are no critics either. The whole article is completely biased and misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:39C8:A7D0:5604:A6FF:FE34:8BA4 (talk) 01:16, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Simeonah sections
Discussion of the work of Morrnah Simeona and her students does nothing to clarify ho'oponopono and smacks of advertising. I hope an editor will delete these two sections.76.126.7.171 (talk) 23:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Is this just New Age nonsense?
I cannot verify this or otherwise, but there is a native people's web forum which debunks attempts to monetize their culture and traditions. Members there say that "Hoʻoponopono" is a fictional process - http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3838.0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.100.251.189 (talk) 21:58, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Max Freedom Long
Is not WP:RS for this topic, yet skimming the sourcing, looks to be heavily relied on here. I'm pretty sure this practice is New Age, not traditional, but have pinged some folks for advice. This is going to need some work. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 22:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

OK, I've cut Long, but as this is a New Age practice, not ancient, we should probably overhaul it in the same way Huna (New Age) had to be cleaned up and renamed. - Co rb ie V    ☊ ☼ 23:14, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

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