Talk:Ho Chi Minh City/Archive 1

Old talk
210.49.196.xxx: "Fall of Saigon" is a phrase that's often bandied about at least in the United States, which is why I emphasised it as we normally do for a secondary definition. (This way, anybody trying to understand that particular phrase will be able to find it easily, especially important as the page grows.) Do you think that this is wrong? &mdash; Toby 16:44 Aug 5, 2002 (PDT)

Sorry i just didn't understand what it was for! My bad sorry! -- 210.49.196.xxx

No problem ^_^. &mdash; Toby 19:11 Aug 5, 2002 (PDT)

photo of South Vietnamese flag
This photo was added by User:Jimmyvanthach. It shows a South Vietnamese flag and has little relevance to the article, rather it seems to be that Jimmy is pushing his POV. Dunc|&#9786; 12:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Chu Nom
I have removed the mention to the so-called "chu nom" characters of the city. The "chu nom" in this case is nothing more than Chinese. First of all, the name "Ho Chi Minh City" has been in use only since 1976, so including a Chinese name for a Vietnamese city is absurd. Secondly even if there is a Chinese name for Saigo n, it should only be included in the etymology section since this is a Vietnamese city, not a Chinese one. DHN 02:16, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Sàigòn?
I've rarely seen the city name being called Sàigòn in Vietnamese. The only usage of it I've seen are "SàiGòn" (to save space) or among certain groups of people who want to "modernize" the language and make it more "Westernized". The French called it Saigon and the Vietnamese called it Sài Gòn. Before the French arrived (but after it was Vietnamized), I think the city name was written with Chinese characters, so the spelling of Sàigòn is moot. DHN 02:20, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * According to the Vietnamese Google, there are 471,000 webpages with the spelling Sài Gòn, but only 8,940 webpages with the spelling Sàigòn. So I think that settles the matter. I am reverting to the Sài Gòn spelling in the article. Hardouin 11:11, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't call the "Sài Gòn" way "traditional". I've seen it written as "Sài-gòn" in pre-1975 documents in southern Vietnam.  There's no one way of writing qu&#7889;c ng&#7919; that can be considered traditional.  I've seen what is now "ph" written as "f" and "c" as "k" in propaganda posters circa 1946.  Vietnamese spelling have changed considerably since the beginning of the 20th century, when it was new.  Ho Chi Minh's 1927 pamphlet "&#272;&#432;&#7901;ng Kách M&#7879;nh" (Road to Revolution) would be written as "&#272;&#432;&#7901;ng Cách M&#7841;ng" in modern Vietnamese. DHN 05:35, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Sài Gòn are 2 seperate words in Vietnamese, and should be written so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.7.157.141 (talk • contribs) 15:25, 22 March 2006

Saigon is better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.147.71 (talk • contribs) 23:10, 9 February 2007

Copyedit
There seems to be plenty of random hyphons inserted everywhere. I removed two but there's more. Skinnyweed 18:19, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I removed most, if not all of them. Sir Vicious 22:11, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Political and Administrative System
Someone that really understands the city government, please check my changes for that section - thanks Crum375 19:32, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I need more imiges —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.15.54.234 (talk • contribs) 11:39, 10 May 2006

Etymology of Saigon
I am quite sceptical about this: "gòn, from the Chu Nom character for the cotton plant". Acccording to the online Chu Nom dictionary, the only gòn is 棍 which means stick, staff, but not cotton. Cotton, on the other hand, is Chu Nom 綿, pronounced either miên, men, or. So I believe the article is wrong on that, unless someone has an explanation to offer. Hardouin 15:40, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * As a native Vietnamese speaker, I can vouch that gòn is the Vietnamese word for "cotton" . The Nom lookup tool's context for the word is "bông gòn", which is "cotton-wool". The character given by the tool, when translated back to Vietnamese from Chinese, is pronounced côn, gon, or gòn, which are mostly similar to gòn.  Remember that Nom was never formalized, and since gòn is a native Vietnamese word, they had to make up a new character that sounds like the word. DHN 04:07, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I checked this in detail, and I understand that the native Vietnamese word for cotton is "bông". Maybe "bông" is a cognate of the Khmer word "amboh", which would make sense since Vietnamese and Khmer are related languages. On the other hand, gòn is definitely a Chinese word (棍, pronounced gùn in Mandarin), and it means "stick". From what I understand, the native Vietnamese word bông and the Chinese loan word gòn were used together, in the sense of "cotton stick", i.e. "cotton plant", and it is probable that later, by contraction, "gòn" alone came to be understood as meaning "cotton", which is why as a native Vietnamese speaker you say it means cotton. However, the original meaning of gòn is clearly "stick". The article needs to be rephrased accordingly. Hardouin 02:02, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * You may be right. However, in my experience, bông is mostly used in the sense of "flower" except in certain complex words where it means "cotton" (ch&#259;n bông = cotton blanket). DHN 02:13, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Well, according to the online Vietnamese dictionary, bông is the standard word for cotton in Vietnamese. Maybe in the particular region of Vietnam where your family come from, the word gòn is favored, I don't know. In any case, I am rewriting the etymology section to better reflect the etymology of gòn. You tell me if you like it. Hardouin 11:16, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Gòn is the word for cotton. It is not colloquial. I have always heard it referred to in this way and used gòn in reference to cotton. The fact that you find it in a dictionary reference as one way does not make it definitive. If you go back to your dictionary source and do a simple lookup on gòn you will find it does mean cotton. http://vdict.com/?word=g%C3%B2n&dictionary=2.

Isn't it pointless to start the article with a long discussion of a name which the article isn't about? It starts off with "Origin of the name", but one sentence is devoted to the origin of its present name. The etymology section ought to go.Mangoe 01:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The city is still known to most people as Saigon. The etymology of its official name is a no-brainer. DHN 02:52, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Then perhaps the etymology belongs as a much-deemphasized note under the history of the name changes. As it is, it seems irrelevant, not to mention out of proportion. Mangoe 04:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

History
There is no mention of the Japanese occupation of Saigon in the History section. I thought Vietnam was invaded in WW ll ?

84.130.85.62 14:00, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Images
I removed two images - image:Saigon-hcmc hotels.jpg and image:Hcm center.jpg - that were added to the infobox at the beginning of the article. The infobox doesn't seem like the right place for these images, and they were far too large, making the infobox overlap much of the article. I would have moved them farther down the page, but there's no information about what the images depict. Also there is no copyright information for the images. If anyone knows what is shown in these images, please include a caption if you re-insert them in the article. PubliusFL 19:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Keep as separate article!
Keep separate! Main HCMC article is bound to grow too big sooner or later. Tabletop 02:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hong Kong article is even bigger :D. Magnifier (talk) 20:11, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Merger of People's Committee Article
There is a separate article on the Ho Chi Minh City People's Committee which is an orphaned stub - not even this article links to it. I have proposed merging that article into the Political and Administrative System section of this article. The People's Committee article could become a redirect to that section. Alternatively, maybe there is enough information about the political and administrative system to merge that section AND the People's Committee article into a new article. PubliusFL 01:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. Per your request. --ShakataGaNai (talk) 00:02, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Media
In the media section we find this snippet in between semicolons: "; the highest circulation newspaper in Vietnam;" I'm thinking one of these should be a comma... but which newspaper has the highest circulation: Tuoi Tre (Youth), Nguoi Lao Dong (Labourer), or Sai Gon Giai Phong (Liberated Saigon)? —dragfyre 17:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Tuoi Tre. DHN (talk) 17:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok - I made this change in the aforementioned section: "...Sai Gon Giai Phong (Liberated Saigon) and its Chinese, investment and finance, sports, evening and weekly editions; Tuoi Tre (Youth), the highest circulation newspaper in Vietnam;..."—dragfyre 20:28, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Chữ Nôm?
Why is the article full of chữ Nôm transliterations? Chữ Nôm is basically a dead language. Vietnamese schools don't even teach it anymore. It's like giving Latin transliterations in an article about a modern European city. Actually it's even worse than that, if this is to be believed: Scholars who can read and understand chữ Nôm today are almost extinct. Kauffner (talk) 06:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Some editors with some affinity for Chinese characters insist on adding them despite it not being used for a hundred years. See articles about Vietnamese provinces and you'd see the battle between people who insist on adding them and those who want them off. DHN (talk) 07:29, 20 June 2008 (UTC)


 * It's not full of chu Nom transliterations. Chu Nom is only found in the historial section of the city's name, so I think it's revelant enough in order to explain the name's origin. Pieuvre (talk) 18:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

LACK OF NEUTRALITY IN ARTICLE
Someone please assist. This article is a disaster and is in huge need of re-writing to fit neutrality. There are parts of the article, such as the "Transportaiotn" section where it says quote: "enforcement of traffic law is a joke. Drivers can still be seen driving the wrong way up a one way street or ignoring red lights. "

That piece of information is useless. anyone who has been to a third world country knows that this is commonplace in some lands. (Dominican Republic, Philippines and India are some I have persoally seen with my eyes)

This article is in servere need of revising. I will not remove the above caption until administrators can see for themselves Kcuello (talk) 17:57, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Traffic laws in Saigon are certainly not a joke. They are quiet serious and they have been painstakingly codified. The issue here is that the original contributor is inarticulate. It would have been more accurate to state that traffic laws are not enforced or traffic laws are loosely interpreted, but claiming that they are a “joke” is yet more evidence that Wikipedia is not of an encyclopedic standard. The professionals over at Encyclopedia Britannica would never have been so sloppily inarticulate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.241.179 (talk) 20:03, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Etymology
The article tells me far more than I'll ever want to know about the etymology of the name. Please cut this back to a single senstence at most. PiCo 11:59, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Khmer name
This idea is wrong: Prey Nokor means “god”, or “heavenly” in Khmer (Prey = “god”; Nokor = “empire,city”, from Sanskrit nagara). The editor is confusing "Prey" that in Khmer is "Forest" with "Preah" that is "heavenly, God...". The translation would be "The city of the forest". For this reason the Cambodian king gave the place to Vietnam because for him "it was just a forest" = nuh tae prey ... El Viajero Paisa (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:33, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

the famous Dr. Keng, Vansak
If Dr. Keng, Vansak is famous, then why does the entry need to state that he is famous? Stating that someone or something is famous suggests that, in fact, it or they are not. If they are famous then we don't need to be told -- if we need to be told then they are not famous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.95.241.179 (talk) 19:56, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

=== Yeah, what is going on? The article focus too much on origin of the name and debates surrounding it, I thought I am going here to read about the city in general, not the name in particular, besides Khmer name, chinese name, etc can be explained a bit but not too much, and it should be mentioned in history, but not separate into another section like that 77.86.125.211 (talk) 00:42, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

any songs about Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City?
List of songs about Saigon/Ho Chi Minh City Thanks.Civic Cat (talk) 19:07, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"Hồ Chí Minh" as the city's name
I noticed that Vietnamese radio nowadays calls the city Hồ Chí Minh. I don't know when they changed it, but at one time "Hồ Chí Minh" referred strictly to the person and city had to be referred to as Thành phố Hồ Chí Minh. At five syllables, this is probably one of the longest city names in the world. Kauffner (talk) 02:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Obviously you haven't heard of Krung Thep Mahanakhon Amon Rattanakosin Mahinthara Yuthaya Mahadilok Phop Noppharat Ratchathani Burirom Udomratchaniwet Mahasathan Amon Piman Awatan Sathit Sakkathattiya Witsanukam Prasit or El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de la Porciúncula. DHN (talk) 03:21, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

This is very common. It's sort of like people shortening the name of Quebec City to simply Quebec. If people walked around saying Ville de Québec all the time, they'd end up looking either silly or annoying. So while the official name is "Ho Chi Minh City", many people use the shorthand "Ho Chi Minh" (or "HCM" to save even more space). It's usually clear from the context whether they're referring to the person or the city. --dragfyre (talk 05:09, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

New Talk - 2010
Does this page really need so many photos? I feel that it is destroying the flow of the main content, the text. On top of that, the photos aren't the best representations of Saigon. "busy saigon street" is not busy at all, that's an average Saigon street. I was adding a clear element to the temperature table when I realized it would take several more clear sections to not get pictures to trample over all of the useful data without pushing it off the end of the browser page. Lullabud (talk) 21:33, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Awesome! Somebody undid my formatting edits so that now shit flows over other shit just like it used to! I'm so glad I spent the time to research ways to debug and fix those formatting errors in Camino and Safari. Lullabud (talk) 18:57, 7 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Definitely agreeing with you on the overabundance of photos in the article. This seems to have been partly alleviated with the addition of the gallery section, but there are several sections, such as Economy, that are still extremely pic-crufty. The Economy section looks very messy text-wise, too, so maybe what we need to do is rewrite it completely. --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 15:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Furthermore! What would be really great is if, in the spirit of summary style, we could split off some of the bigger sections of this article (or the sections that deserve to be bigger) into their own articles. This could happen right away for Economy and History—the first is huge enough already, and History can be quickly expanded with references from Names of Ho Chi Minh City and related articles like Citadel of Saigon, State of Vietnam, South Vietnam, and so on (I've started a page in my sandbox for this). This would allow us to balance the inclusion of images with enough text to wrap around them—IMO the biggest problem right now is that there's simply no content to balance all the images people have been adding. --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 18:23, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Massage Parlours
I think there should be a section here talking about massage parlours and these disguised hair cut places that end up being something else. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knguyeniii (talk • contribs) 09:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Template
Someone can help me to create the template of "List of HCMC Administrative Units" and replace it in the same section.--Tranletuhan (talk) 05:32, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like you figured out the table template :) By the way, I've been meaning to say it earlier, but that table has gotten really huge. I'd like to propose that we remove the columns "Population as of Mid YYYY" and only include the columns "Population as of Census" 2004 and 2009, since the interim years are basically just extrapolation in between census years anyway. Thoughts? --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 14:31, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and done this, since there were no comments to the contrary. --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 14:51, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I just realized something else - that table really needs to be under "Demographics". --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 14:36, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

"Citation needed" on motorbikes?
why is there a "citation needed" flag on the fact that motorbikes are the most common way of moving around the city? Any photo of the city shows this to be true; many parts of HCMC cannot even be comfortably accessed via automobile (no parking, narrow streets, construction rendering the streets impassable). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asthasr (talk • contribs) 08:33, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Because on Wikipedia, assertions need to be cited to avoid being challenged. Besides, it's really not that hard to look up, say, a Lonely Planet guide that says "Motorbikes are the most common method of transport in HCMC" and add it as a reference. It gives readers the ability to verify facts for themselves, helps them learn more, and it makes our work look more professional and reliable. --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 12:40, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistent use of diacritics
It has been pointed out at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (use English) that this article has an inconsistent use of diacritics. Interested editors should discuss which variant is more common, and standardize the use of Ho Chi Minh City / Hồ Chí Minh City in the article. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; talk 17:19, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

RfC on the spelling of Vietnamese names
RfC: Should the spelling of Vietnamese names follow the general usage of English-language reliable sources? Examples: Ngo Dinh Diem, Ho Chi Minh, and Saigon, or Ngô Đình Diệm, Hồ Chí Minh, and Sài Gòn. The RfC is here. Kauffner (talk) 14:35, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Update
I have entered some new information from this year but haven't had the opportunity to review the entire article; there may be other areas that need updating.--Soulparadox (talk) 09:58, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

why this pipe
I'm here checking airline destinations and noticed the lower-case 'r' on "republic of South Vietnam". I looked in the edit page and saw that it's here as republic of South Vietnam and wonder why that's the case; the formal name was "Republic of South Vietnam" wasn't it? I know on the Republic page there's some definition that might exclude this former country from the way it was run, but a formal name is a formal name isn't it? I imagine there might have been an edit war over this, or a very pointed discussion, but thought it unusual. The pipe should at least have a capital "R" no?
 * Republic of Vietnam (commonly South Vietnam) and the Republic of South Vietnam are two different polities. DHN (talk) 21:41, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by nominator. Thanks to you all for the civil, helpful responses. I think I still disagree but this is obviously the consensus location. Red Slash 02:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

– The largest and most famous city in all of Vietnam surely has primary topic for the base title. (I'd be willing to accept a different location for the man.) Remembering that countless readers will have arrived at the man's article by accident, only getting to the city by means of a hatnote... Pageview stats: 193311 views for the base title, versus 205596 for the city, which is a huge discrepancy when you think of all the people who, thinking of the city, link to or search for Ho Chi Minh and are flabbergasted to land at the revolutionary's page instead of the bustling metropolis's article (thereby boosting the man's pageview stats). I certainly didn't expect it myself. Seriously, when a reader types in or links to Ho Chi Minh, are they expecting an article about a person or a huge city? Red Slash 21:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Ho Chi Minh City → Ho Chi Minh
 * Ho Chi Minh → Ho Chi Minh (revolutionary)
 * Oppose - remain status quo, I've only ever heard the city being called Saigon or Ho Chi Minh City, but rarely just Ho Chi Minh. --  axg //  ✉  ]] ''' 22:36, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - no one calls the city Ho Chi Minh. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:14, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. What about usage in reliable sources? As a take a look at a google search, I see a lot more hits for the man, and any mention of the city uses "Ho Chi Minh City". The page view stats that the OP cited could also mean that readers may be putting the full "Ho Chi Minh City" phrase into search engines. Of course, it could also be argued that the man, as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC puts it, has more "long-term significance" than the city that was named after him. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:28, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose - I have never heard anyone referring to the city as simply "Ho Chi Minh" – that term seems to universally referr to the leader. --  Ohc  ¡digame!¿que pasa? 04:34, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose Also never heard the city called just Ho Chi Minh; it's Ho Chi Minh City, as the article repeatedly calls it. --  tariq abjotu  05:09, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * SNOW close - only the nominator sees the need to disambiguate between the man and the city. This is a non-issue. DHN (talk) 05:50, 3 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The city is not called Ho Chi Minh; it's called Saigon ...oops Ho Chi Minh City.  —  AjaxSmack   01:04, 4 September 2013 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Early history of Sai Gon
" The early dynástical entity wás the Rhead-Sivakumaran family who dominated the region in the early Romanic period, until the Qing dynasty overcame the armies of Rhead-Sivakumaran and General Behan in BC820."

What does this passage mean? I haven't read Schweyer's book yet. I met her once at a congress. I know her as a distinguished person in things of early history. This sentence sounds totally weird. First, romanic is a term of art history, associated with a certain style in Central Europe around 1000 AD. The Qing dynasty ruled in China after the 17th century. I don't know anything about a Rhead-Sivakumaran adn a General Behan. And last, the dating of BC820 is totally absurd. Thise sentence is not only nonsense, but makes no sense at all. --Mahaparvata (talk) 06:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Ho Chi Minh City
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Ho Chi Minh City's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "GDP": From Shanghai:  From Mexico City:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 16:37, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
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Historical names of Saigon
There are some incorrect and convoluted stuffs here.

Gia Định was originally the name of the citadel (located in today Bình Thạnh district), and therefore also used as the name of the whole Prefect (Gia Định Phủ). After the French gained Cochinchina as a colony, they built a new city next to the river bank (today District 1 area) and used the local name to call it -- Saigon (Sài Gòn, and Sài Côn in sino-vietnamese). Saigon then grew and consumed both Gia Định and Chợ Lớn (Chinatown) -- both in territory and importance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Inkstone (talk • contribs)

External links modified
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 * I checked the archive, but it is dead link.  Vanjagenije  (talk)  22:30, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

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Recent changes to the page
In recent months, this page has been changed in which the infobox settlement template has been replaced with wikidata by users112.198.102.128, Alice Zhang Mengping, 118.69.57.12, and 82.203.24.241 (see these edits for PH wikidata,, , , ) and. I strongly oppose to substituting the infobox settlement with wikidata templates as shown in these edits for a couple of reasons. I am okay with ordering the citations by distinguishing book and web soruces.
 * 1) By changing it to templates, it makes it really hard for users to change population, area, or links should the info become updated, especially for new users who may have good sources to add.
 * 2) In the most recent edit by 82.203.24.241, the infobox is wrong since there is a name in Cyrillic, which is not used in Vietnam. Furthermore, he/she changed the climate box in which colours were being removed for no apparent reason. The standard is that in all city articles containing the climate box, there should be colours; it makes it easier for readers to understand the table.
 * 3) None of the cities follow the format of adding in the wikidata in a format shown in these edits. If one looks at featured and good articles related to cities (e.g Istanbul, London, Manchester, etc.), none of them follow the format being used in those edits above. They all follow the format used in this page as shown in my revert in the infobox settlement.
 * 4) The templates that were transcluded (point 1) is redundant since the infobox already does the job nicely. Why make it more complicated or use a redundant template?

Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:01, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
 * 1 what you say is exactly 100% wrong. The wikidata is a single source for all data; and infoboxes by their nature are wanted them the same, to may editing easier for editors.
 * 2 I can't see anything in Cyrillic script; the only piece I can see is an old one about sister city in Belarus. By the way, this is English Wikipedia: there is plenty of Vietnamese script which should be removed.  As well as Chinese (s and t), Khmer, etc.  But not in this edit.
 * 2a If colour is wanted in the climate box, its only one line. But why coloured? To me they look ghastly.  And of course it is bad for poor eyesight.  And they don't work well for B + W printers.
 * 3 Look at other places. Look out Cebu City (and Cebu province), Tagbilaran as well as its province Bohol.  In fact all infobox settlements in Central Visayas, about 100 altogether, use wikidata.
 * 4 If you think the previous style (or lack of one) is uncomplicated, you shouldn't be an editor. Instead be a Luddite.
 * 82.203.24.241 (talk) 05:30, 7 July 2017 (UTC)


 * For point 2, it is confusing to readers about the Cyrllic script being shown randomly in the infobox. I see the script (in this version and it is Cyrillic since searching it leads to the Russian Wikipedia article on Ho Chi Minh City. While there is plenty of Vietnamese and Chinese script, this is used for indicating the history when these scripts were used. Cyrillic has never been used in Vietnam. These are two different scenarios. Also, if you say why colour looks ghastly, then how come the majority of climate boxes uses the coloured scheme by several editors? The consensus has been to use the colours (particularly for temperature, sunshine, avg days with rain/precip/snow, humidity). You claims that I should not be editor is basically a personal attack against another by trying to use the typical "my way or no way" attitude. I try to bring up my concerns on the talk page and if you resort to name calling, clearly, this issue will not be resolved. Ssbbplayer (talk) 03:53, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Hardly surprised to see that Russian Wikipedia is written in Russian. And user:Rubberduck23? -Alice 张梦平 07:29, 8 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alice Zhang Mengping (talk • contribs)
 * This is not really related to the topic and why are you bringing in a past, unrelated incident to this topic. You are not answering the concerns and instead trying to show how stupid I am with reference to the Russian Wikipedia. Obviously, users do experience disputes with others but trying to use this is trying to show me in a negative light. You are just cherrypicking to prove a point. Not every user is perfect. I try to bring up my concerns but instead, you only focus on the editor, not the content. You accuse me of ownership and never assume good faith in the first place. Ironically, you are the one who exhibits ownership, as all those listed accounts have similar editing patterns to you to push their favoured version (i.e use wikidata templates in the infobox settlement, particularly places in Cebu and Bohol provinces where I see a lot of IP addresses with similar editing patterns). Alice Zhang Mengping has been accused on WP:OWN in the past (see talk page) and has repeatedly done so. Ssbbplayer (talk) 13:35, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * In line with WP:EPTALK, WP:BRD, the old version should be kept until the dispute is resolved given that other users object to similar changes in the past. Ssbbplayer (talk) 19:18, 8 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ssbbplayer. Anyway, the change introduced by those people isn't only about the wikidata but they change a lot of other information, which was referenced to a book which noone read. Like this part:


 * The early dynastical entity was the Rhead-Sivakumaran family who dominated the region in the early Romanic period, until the Zhou dynasty overcame the armies of Rhead-Sivakumaran and General Behan in 820 BC.
 * I believe that part is never correct, it was added as vandalism as the first place, I explained it when I removed it with https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ho_Chi_Minh_City&type=revision&diff=786436720&oldid=786434366 I support the rollback of Ssbbplayer and I against the usage of wikidata since I cannot find any consensus to use it anywhere except those article about Philippines 0x44616E68 (talk) 11:50, 9 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out these observations. I forgot to mention that the wikidata version leads to a change in the skyline photo which should always be discussed on the talk page before changing it. When I looked the locations in the Philippines that uses wikidata, I noticed a lot of IPs with similar editing patterns since they keep adding wikidata and pushing their favoured versions with similar edit summaries (e.g add wikidata, improve page, improve ref, ce, remove unused refs, etc.) and harshly criticizing those who reverted the edit (usually resort to personal attacks such as calling them vandals even though the edit is not a vandalism). I believe these same IPs are doing the same here in this article since they have similar editing patterns. This makes point 3 that user 82.203.24.241/Alice Zhang Mengping mentioned being a weak point as only those locations that used it were added by similar users (could possibly be one person only), not the rest of the world. All infobox settlements in the world except for those places use the format without transcluding in wikidata templates; it makes it easier for many users to edit and update the infobox. Ssbbplayer (talk) 16:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Population projections
Do population projections meet Wikipedia content guidelines? Either way, there are issues with the last two paragraphs in the introduction. They give different projections for the population: 20 million in 2020 or 13.9 million in 2025 (which will somehow come after growth). Both are cited. Is there someone who can clean this one up? 2A02:1811:B605:4E00:D505:5EB7:4F85:791C (talk) 12:00, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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South Vietnam was a capitalist and anti-communist state which fought against the communist North Vietnamese
Or rather tried to surivive invided by the NV? The Guardian is a leftist paper, there are other sources. Xx236 (talk) 10:31, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Etymology contradiction
There's seems to be a contradiction in the Etymology section. First it says; '...official name of Gia Định (嘉定). This name remained until the time of French conquest in the 1860s, when the occupying force adopted the name Saigon for the city, a westernized form of the traditional name'

This indicates to me the Sai Gon came from the Westernised pronunciation of Gia Định.

However, the very next section goes into some detail about possible historical meaning of 'Sai' and 'Gon. John arneVN (talk) 02:59, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably needs to be clearer. The traditional name has always been Sai Gon, even when officially it's named Gia Dinh.  DHN (talk) 18:12, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:17, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Emblem of Ho Chi Minh City.svg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:07, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Ho chi minh city skyline.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:55, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Emblem of Ho Chi Minh City.svg

"In 1976, the government of a unified Vietnam renamed Saigon to its current official name in honour of the communist leader Ho Chi Minh."
Is this the best you lot can do? 2607:FEA8:BFA0:BD0:F5D2:4C7C:3BDB:8633 (talk) 19:38, 4 August 2020 (UTC)


 * What lot? Whose lot? Thou, my good IPv6 Sir, or Madam, art every bit as capable of editing the text as the rest of us (unless the article's got some level of protection on it, I don't know, but if that is the case you can post any desired edits here). Got anything better? Firejuggler86 (talk) 07:46, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:55, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Jakarta Skyline Part 2.jpg

Phamb590 (talk) 04:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Added a sentence in religion.

Name pronunciation
A user has removed the pronunciation templates. While I may or may not agree to the stated reason for doing so, I found the audio files in those pronunciation templates quite helpful. Is there a way to bring back those audio files outside the templates? Latin Beau 18:00, 12 July 2022 (UTC)