Talk:Hobey Baker

Where did he die?
The main text says 'Toul' while the fact box says 'Tours', apparently different parts of France. The link at the bottom to the online biography at the Legends of Hockey website lists 'Toul', but I'm reluctant to change the fact box (I'm not sure 'fact box' a proper term?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.181.153.10 (talk) 11:52, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

The correct location is Toul. That was the aerodrome for the Air Service, Second Army, to which the 141st Aero Squadron was assigned. My grandfather was stationed there with the 278th Aero Squadron (Observation) at the time and witnessed Capt Baker's crash.76.125.60.137 (talk) 01:25, 26 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Toul was the main aerodrome of the sector in which new units were "broken in" at the front, which the 141st AS and the other units of the 2nd Army's Air Service were. (The 141st flew its first patrol on October 23, 1918). Tours was in central France and the headquarters of the Air Service, A.E.F.--Reedmalloy (talk) 16:59, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Contributions to Skating
I have added a paragraph on Baker's contributions to skating which were considerable. I have not fully sourced these but they should be easily provable by anyone so inclined. In regards to my statement that Baker invented the wedge stop there may be some doubters, however, if you read old manuals of figure skating you will find absolutely no mention of the wedge stop (until Baker's time). For example, the book "Lessons in Skating" by George Meagher (1900) it reads as follows (describing the parallel stop):

"Remember that if you are going at a rate of speed, and wish to stop, there is only one correct way of doing so, i.e., turn both feet perfectly sideways, slant the body in the direction which you started; this will throw you on the inside edge of one skate, and the outside edge of the other."

Meagher was figure skating champion of the world and a renowned hockey expert. Baker's use of the wedge stop was simply flabbergasting to his contemporaries because not only was it completely novel, but players who tried to imitate him found that they could not do it because it requires incredible ankle strength and technique to use wedge stops at high speeds. John Chamberlain (talk) 03:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

not escadrill
membership in the 103rd does not count as escadrill. his name does not appear on either escadrill list. Brian in denver (talk) 20:04, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

FAC?
I discovered this article by chance, and it seems very complete in terms of content/referencing. I think if a copyedit were to be done, it would be a viable candidate at FAC. Any thoughts?  Maxim (talk)  20:47, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm always in support of ice hockey related articles becoming recognized content, so I would like to see that. I know this article was part of User:Kaiser matias' goal of getting the 1945 Hockey Hall of Fame class to GA+ status, which is probably why it's in such good shape, but I think he might be on a wiki break as I have not seen a lot of edits from him lately.--Mo Rock...Monstrous (leech44) 01:53, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I've been working on it on and off the last while with that goal in mind. Could probably fill out the remaining sections tomorrow even and have it ready to go for FAC by then. Kaiser matias (talk) 06:52, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Took longer than I wanted, but finished it and its up at GA for a quick review before heading to FA. Honestly didn't think it would be this long when I started. Kaiser matias (talk) 02:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Copyediting notes
-- Another Believer ( Talk ) 20:25, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * "Most of his former classmates recalled their time at St. Paul's with Baker solely by his athletic achievements.", "By the time Baker left St. Paul's his sporting achievements had helped make him one of the school's most popular students": I'd lose these two sentences. My concern is that these two sentences make him look less rather than more impressive ... if what he's known for is being popular in high school, then he must not have been very well known.
 * Except for that, going through my list at the FAC, it looks like you covered everything down to "Running through the whole article quickly". - Dank (push to talk) 14:36, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Aviation claim(s)
The text asserts that Baker "led a squadron of twelve aircraft, the most to have ever flown in military formation" to Princeton. This may be a considerable romanticism by Salvini, the source. In a work by historian Juliette Hennessy of the Air Force's Historical Division in 1958, The United States Army Air Arm, April 1861 to April 1917, page 179, it indicates that the flight consisted of ten aircraft, not twelve, that only seven were flown by military (National Guard) aviators (the other three were flown by a civilian instructor and civilian students training at the aviation school on Governor's Island), that they were led by Captain Raynal Bolling, and that Baker flew as an observer in a Curtiss JN4 flown by another civilian, Cord Meyer. Meyer was a Yalie also commissioned in 1917 and flew again with Baker in the 103rd A.S. Because this is an FA, I am going to do more research before/if I edit this, but whoever originally sourced this might go back and check Salvini's source. I discovered this in sourcing Baker's date of commissioning, which was April 30, 1917 in the Signal Officer's Reserve Corps, with a rating of Reserve Military Aviator. (p. 246)--Reedmalloy (talk) 21:18, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I hate being a gadfly about this article, but the sources used appear to have been more interested in Baker the athlete than Baker the military officer. The text states his May 21 claim for a kill was denied, but Maurer and AFHRA credit it. The claim taken from a newspaper account of his being promoted to lieutenant in March 1918 is clearly at odds with the facts.  He received his commission almost a year before, as noted above, and as a first lieutenant. He is said to have gone to France on August 23, but the history of the 26th Aero Squadron states that he was detailed in July 1918, along with most of the officers of the 1st R.A.S., to go to France to assist in setting up the urgently needed aviation school at Issoudun.  Here is a summary of the 26th A.S. and Baker's service with it and the 141st A.S., taken from Gorrell's History of the Air Service of the AEF: (Major) Bolling, (Captain) James E. Miller, and (Captain)  Phillip A. Carroll (whose school on Governors Island trained Baker) organized the 1st Reserve Aero Squadron in May 1917.  1st Lt. Hobart A. H. Baker was an original member. On July 14 he was one of ten officers of the 1st R.A.S. (including Quentin Roosevelt), commanded by Miller, ordered to France to accompany 49 flying cadets who were the first students to be trained under an agreement with France.  In the meantime, the squadron's enlisted men continued training at Mineola, New York, and sailed for Halifax on the RMS Baltic on August 23, then in a convoy on Sept 5 for Liverpool, arriving Sept 15, then immediately on to France, arriving at Issoudun on September 21.  There they were were re-designated as the 26th Aero Squadron.  Two-thirds of the enlisted men of the 26th A.S. immediately began six weeks of training at French schools in Pau or Tours on repair and maintenance of Nieuport biplanes.  When they returned, the aviators (including Baker) began flying training on Nieuports.  At the end of 1917 nearly all the personnel of the 26th A.S. were transferred to other units. Baker and ten other pilots (all of whom became noted pursuit aviators) were described as "continued with their training." Baker joined the 103rd Aero Squadron on April 3, 1918, while it was still assigned to a French air group, and after it had begun combat operations. The 141st A.S. arrived in France after six months in England on August 16, 1918,were sent to the Air Service Concentration Barracks at Saint-Maixent on August 20, where 1st Lt. Baker took command. At the time it was without pilots or airplanes, but began to receive both when it reached Colombey-les-Belles on September 16.--Reedmalloy (talk) 08:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Infobox mess
Is there any particular reason why this article needs to have two infoboxes, the second of which repeats some of the information given in the first and also makes it appear that he won the Croix de Guerre with the Princeton Tigers? BencherliteTalk 10:37, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I would suggest just using Infobox person instead of multiple boxes like this. Course, I tried doing that on a similar article in the past and had another project rush in and basically take over the infobox. Resolute 04:10, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Good idea, I've done that. I've not included height/weight (as these aren't given in the article and so were unsourced) and I've not included the list of squadrons with which he served (but if someone thinks they should be added, go ahead). BencherliteTalk 10:21, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

HHOF Banner
Just a recommendation, but the Hockey Hall of Fame banner should be displayed at the top of the info bar, as seen in any other HHOF member. Tried myself but for some reason could't get the code to work — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spilia4 (talk • contribs) 07:24, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
 * While that would be ideal, Baker was notable in multiple fields, so his infobox is a more generic one that can accommodate this. That does, unfortunately, preclude the use of the HHOF banner, which is limited to the ice hockey infobox. Likewise, it eliminates the usage of any banners the college football project uses.  A similar case would be Lionel Conacher.  Thanks! Resolute 21:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

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