Talk:Hogwarts/Archive 2

In hogwarts there are 4 houses. Giffindor Hufflepuff Ravenclaw and Slytherin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiifit888 (talk • contribs) 16:12, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Style
With the exception of the introductory paragraph, the entire article is written "in universe" style. There's no component of the article that talks about the subject's literary aspect. For example, the name "Hogwarts Academy" is taken from the Thomas Wolfe novel "The Hills Beyond." Moreover, the role of a boarding school in coming of age novels has a long historical tradition, and this example is meaningful in many ways. There's an immense amount of fictional information here, which is fine, but not nearly enough information that is outside of the fictional realm. 75.9.168.191 (talk) 01:29, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Spoiler Alert
"The climactic battle of the book, and the series, however, is set at Hogwarts."

I'd go easy on that bit of information so high up in the article. At least for another few weeks.--Pittsburghmuggle 03:21, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

There needs to be a spoiler alert on this page, because multiple areas talk about after the novels are completed (Defense Against the Dark Arts is one)207.38.14.5 (talk) 23:33, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia doesn't do spoiler alerts. If you don't want to read about a subject, you shouldn't look it up. faithless   (speak)  23:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I find this "we don't do spoiler alerts" to be absurd, lots of people will want to read about some series that perhaps they have finished part of, but aren't going to expect to be told that the butler did it on the last page of the last book. What is the *harm* of spoiler alerts?  You afraid of looking un-PRO-fessional, cause, newsflash, that battle is lost.  Is there some official wikipedia policy on this that can be referenced somewhere?? 76.203.124.48 (talk) 05:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * See Talk:The Mousetrap for a discussion about spoilers. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 06:22, 4 November 2010 (UTC)


 * And here is the official disclaimer on objectionable content: Content disclaimer, and the more spoiler specific sub-article and guideline: Spoiler.  X  eworlebi (talk) 09:46, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Distance learning?
Which ancillary staff member used this method? The textual basis for this statement should be specified or it should be removed. savidan(talk) (e@) 20:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry - missed the question here. Answered on in the article yesterday.  In Chamber of Secrets (ch. 8), Harry discovers Argus Filch the Caretaker was attempting to study KWIKSPELL - A Correspondence Course in Beginners' Magic.  --T-dot 01:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Link to Hogwarts layout
Shouldn't there be a link to Hogwarts layout somewhere within the article? 70.50.174.238 14:57, 12 August 2006 (UTC) HOGWARTS IS REAL! IT'S NOT A FAKE!


 * THANK YOU - I was just trying to find that other Hogwarts article yesterday to link a classroom to an article. Consider it Done.  --T-dot 15:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The website http://www.oddment-tweak.com features architectural models and floorplans which adhere precisely to the textual information about Hogwarts.--Harper09 22:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As of today, the above web-site gives a malware warning when you click the link - approach with caution — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.228.156.179 (talk) 01:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I find people are especially interested in a floor plan of Hogwarts based on the films, rather than the books. One can be found at http://hogwartscampus.com. Can this link be added to the external links? --RWulf (talk) 05:13, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

British spelling
The rest of Wikipedia consistently uses the American spealling, so why are we suddenly using the British spelling here? E946 16:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia does not consistently use American English. Wikipedia has clearly stated guidelines on which styles of English should be used within the Manual of style. Therefore as Harry Potter is set in Britain written by a British author and originally published in Britain, the appropriate language style for Harry Potter articles is British English. Hope that helped, regards. Death Eater Dan  ( Muahaha ) 17:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Though my dictionary says that "enrolment" is a British spelling of "enrollment," I asked two British friends who both said it was "enrollment," so case closed. --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 22:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * ROFL, whilst I'm not really bothered over the enrolment/enrollment issue I find it very funny that on the say so of 2 'experts' that it is case closed. I'm sure that all the compilers of British dictionaries will be most agrieved to know that they are all wrong, according to 2 British friends, i'll look for thier corrected entries in the next editions. Death Eater Dan  ( Muahaha ) 22:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Haha, I'm reading that back and feeling a bit stupid right now… what I tried to say but failed rather amusingly was that "enrolment" was listed as a British spelling of "enrollment." To find out which usage was more common, I asked around some Brits I know and they opted for double Ls. Dictionaries don't always go with the popular vote, they list all the possibilities. So… seems like the anon who was persisiting in it has gone away anyway, so what the hell. --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 01:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Lol no probs, must admit it made me giggle. But like I said i'm not overly bothered by the enrolment/enrollment issue because as far as British/American spelling issues go its a very minor one due to both versions being in general use here in Britain. Death Eater Dan  ( Muahaha ) 01:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

We should at least be consistent. If "enrollment" has been decided upon, I'm changing it in the info box to match. 70.53.0.122 16:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Which dictionary did you check? "Enrolment" is the British English spelling. Verbs ending in "l" double the "l" before a vowel (c.f. traveller) but not before a consonant; "fulfilment" is another example. I'm afraid that when it comes to doubled letters, asking the man on the street is not a reliable substitute for a good dictionary; if you ask ten random people to spell "accommodation" you will probably find many of them get it wrong, but "accommodation" is still the only acceptable spelling of the word in formal written English. 84.70.141.228 15:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In further support of "enrolment" (and "enrol") being the British spellings: American_and_British_English_spelling_differences
 * From my rather non-British (or non-English, as a friend of mine from there would attest), I believe that in a situation of grammatical dispute, we ought to look at the author's preferred (or is it "prefered", haha?) usage. After all, since British dictionaries list both as acceptable, it's really artistic license which should decide, given that that's what's defining the article's spelling norms anyway. T.J. Fuller, Jr. 01:07, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Have to back up T.J. Fuller here. Enrolment is the only accepted spelling, as a quick dip in the OED confirms.User:cmsg
 * I've been reverting this for the past three months to one "l". People ain't listening. Daggoth | Talk 01:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I just reverted an American I.P.'s address change of 'enrolment' to 'enrollment' despite the explicit warning in the edit page... *sighs* Please guys, British related article = British spelling. Scar ian Talk  16:20, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

If you all are so keen on having enrollment spelled in the British way, then why don't you change the entire article to British spelling? The word 'color' is used in the article and it's spelled in the American way. Having just one word spelled differently looks out of place and throws the reader off, so either do it all the way or don't do it at all. *EDIT: I would change the rest of the article to UK English myself, but I am American so I don't want to change things to UK English for fear of doing it completley wrong.* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.227.133.155 (talk) 18:55, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite
After seeing the disorganized state of the current article, I decided that it would be a good idea to completely rewrite this article. I set up a user subpage to edit behind the scenes. i'm more or less done, and I want to make sure nobody has a problem with it before I make the change (Which is why I put in the template)

There's only a few issues right now, including:
 * Bad introduction
 * Bad layout and grounds section

The new article can be found here. Please make any changes you want. In a week, I'll copy everything over to this article if nobody has any major objections.

E946 08:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * E946, if you don't mind, I'm going to make a few changes to your draft. You can of course revert or change them as you like, they're just things which were recently added to the article which are not present. Good work! --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 13:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Something to consider rewriting this article: I think that Wikipedia policy only allows one screenshot on a page, but the draft currently has 3. I haven't seen this anywhere except as a note above the screenshots section under "licensing" on the upload page, and I'm not sure if this is a matter of copyright or of style.  Also, I added a link to the WikiProject talk page to alert the community.  Should the rewriting be noted anywhere else? -Phi*n!x 02:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I've never heard that, actually. I just saw a good picture of the sorting hat in another article so I added it. Where can we go to ask if it's okay? E946 05:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has at least five screenshots or so. I don't know, though, if it's closely monitored. I think, if you go by the reasoning that it's to help illustrate the topic in question, it's considered fair use. The Sorting Hat, then, is fine, because you want to illustrate the Sorting ceremony. To ask, you should probably try the Village pump (technical). --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 13:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * You can to User talk:QuarterZ. This user wanted User:AndyZ to upload an image of Snape (He didn't know how to at a time) and Andy didn't want to because there were to many screenshots there. Another one is the history of Ron Weasley where User:T-dot removed screenshots so there was very little and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film). Any articles having 2 or more screenshots; one needs to be removed. You can see WP:FUC for the violation rule. C  a  rm  el  apple  14:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * From what I see, WP:FUC doesn't specifically say that there should be only one screenshot, but that unfree images should be as limited as possible (rule #3). I agree that the ways the images are being used on the Hogwarts draft are fine and legal, but I am curious if we can figure out what's up with the policy. (On a side note, the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe page has eight screenshots and I have suggested on its talk page that this be changed.)   Also, I have posted this before on this talk page: wouldn't a Hogwarts blazon be an appropriate image for the article?  I'll scan one from a Bloomsbury edition if I can get help with the fair use rationale. -Phi*n!x 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It's pretty much impossible to describe the blazon without a picture, you're not stopping them from selling any books, and you're not making a profit. There's your fair use. E946 09:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If nobody else has any problems with this, then i'll just change it over when I wake up later today. E946 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I really hate people who archive things which are eseentially active discussions, so I have restored the last section which had been archived. Sandpiper 17:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Other Schools
Out of curiosity, where does JKR say that the Salem witches institute is a school. The only hint we get from the books implies the Salem WI is exactly that, a branch of the womens Institute. I don't know if this existsin the US, but in the Uk this is essentially a club for adult qomen, traditionly hot on cooking, household interestes, and giving politicians a bad time. Sandpiper 18:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know entirely. I thought it was some character who were mentioned in passing at the QWC. --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 22:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Rowling never says that it's a school. The only mention of it is in the chapter Bagman and Crouch in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: "...while a group of middle-aged American witches sat gossiping happily beneath a spangled banner stretched between their tents which read: Salem Witches' Institute." The HP Lexicon says that it is "possibly a school." I'd say that this isn't really enough to warrant its inclusion in this article. 67.68.139.97 00:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I rewrote it, saying that it is only possibly a school and that it has not been confirmed as one. 70.53.0.122 16:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Enrollment Book
Where does it say people may appear in this book any time up to age 11? I understood it to be a magical book which records every birth when it happens, though I have no idea where information about it comes from. Sandpiper 18:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed it. The facts were wrong. --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 22:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Fees
I don't recall any mention of anyone paying fees to go to Hogwarts, so why do we suggest that there might be some. The only mention I recall is essentially if the school paying students, never the other way around. Sandpiper 18:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The topic of fees is brought up because fees are paid to go to some schools. For the sake of completeness, we have to mention that nothing is known about paying to go to Hogwarts. --Fbv65 e del / &#9745;t / &#9755;c || 22:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * then I think it needs a rephrase since my reaction was that it casts doubt on whether maybe fees are paid.

AS far as I am aware, there is no mention of school fees at Hogwarts. There is, however, a sort of scholarship available for students who do not have enough money to pay for their books etc, as with Tom Riddle.


 * Hardship fund, rather than scholarship (as far as I am aware, a scholarship gives one free access to a fee-paying school). But since one would expect even a cursory mention of fees from the Weasleys, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that it is fee paying. Michaelsanders 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ironically, that would make it a state (public for the Americans) school.Michaelsanders 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, considering the Ministry of Magic seems to have a certain amount of control over Hogwarts, it's probably not completely impossible for it to be considered at least a school of the wizarding state... Kmenzel 19:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

There are two mentions that come to mind for me. First, in PS, Uncle Vernon says he will not pay for some crackpot to teach Harry magic tricks, or something of that nature. Second, In ch.13 of HBP, the young Tom Riddle tells Dumbledore he hasn't got any money, and Dumbledore says that there is a fund at Hogwarts for those who require assistance to buy books and robes. Why the Weasleys didn't take advantage of this, I don't know. :P As for whether or not there is a fee for attending, I imagine there is, though I think those mentions are the closest we come to learning about it. faithless  (speak)  20:12, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Uniforms
I looked through this article and was quite perturbed to discover that the only mention of the students' uniforms is in the items contained in the acceptance letter to Hogwarts. I also was unable to find any other article about the Hogwarts uniforms. Was this merely an oversight of mine or is there truly no Wikipedia information about this subject? If so, can that please be rectified by a knowledgeable member? 70.107.96.220 20:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think if you were to find anything on uniforms it'd be in this article. If you know any little bits on it, be bold and start a new section on the article, probably under "Student life," and contribute what you know. In the mean time, I'll do a little work and hope some other frequent editors of the page will do something, too. --Fbv65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 05:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I was going to add something on the article about the uniforms, but I'm really confused by them. In the American illustrations, it looks like they just wore jeans and a t-shirt under their robes. But in the movie we see a totally different image (also note that the hats are not in the movies). Yet in the books there is really no intricate explanation. I didn't see a question about this on the F.A.Q. section of JKR's website. Any ideas? --Glimmer721 (talk) 00:47, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Location used for filming?
It would be intersting to know which castle was used -- Lee Carré 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, List of places in the Harry Potter_books has some info, should be a link from this article though, perhaps also adding the box at the bottom of the page for general Harry Potter navigation. -- Lee Carré 08:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I know that the set for the castle was based on a castle in UK, Oxford, I'm pretty sure. And, I think it's now it a university. I'll try to get the name of it. Timeroot (talk) 09:26, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Trivia
If anyone wants this in the article, it should be incorporated into the existing text, not in its own section. John Reaves 22:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
 * The dinosaur Dracorex hogwartsia ("dragon king of Hogwarts"), first discovered in 2004 and officially named in 2006, was named such by young visitors to the Children's Museum of Indianapolis in reference to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

Yes, that really does not need its own section. However, it is true-I saw it in a factual dinosaur pictre book. --Glimmer721 (talk) 00:49, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Discipline
It is my understanding that prefects, in fact, DO NOT have the authority to dock points. The exception to this was when Malfoy was on the Inquisitorial Squad.


 * This got posted by JK on her site and she said that prefects can dock points, Ron simply forgot.


 * Didn't JK mention somewhere that prefects can not dock points from other prefects? (Ron was a prefect at that time.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.141.38 (talk) 18:05, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Percy Weasly docked 5 points from Gryffindor when he caught Harry and Ron either coing out of, or going into Moaning Myrtle's bathroom ( a girl bathroom which is out of order_ in Chamber of Secrets. Lord loss210 (talk) 22:07, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

A mention of the Black Lake, please
Hi. I was just editing Black Lake (Disambiguation) and Loch Shiel (Black Lake in the films), and I'm surprised to see that Black Lake isn't mentioned in Hogwarts. Can somebody please add? Thanks. -- 201.50.248.179 09:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I remember it ever so called in the books. Michaelsanders 09:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not either. :-) I'll try to check what I can. But there's pretty definitely a lake near Hogwarts, at least. -- 201.50.248.179 10:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Mentioned in Wikipedia Grindylow, for whatever that's worth (might help track down a print reference). -- 201.50.248.179 10:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, this article isn't really the place for that. If it isn't properly covered in Hogwarts layout, put it in there; but here, there is already a mention that Hogwarts is situated by a lake, and nothing else is needed. As for the term 'Black Lake' - well, the Grindylow article doesn't source its use. If you can find a canonical use of the name, then cite it and use it where appropriate. Michaelsanders 12:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The Black Lake is not canon, having never been called as such in the books. This stems from a reference to the name in the fourth film and and eponymous song from the soundtrack. See here and search for "black lake." --Fbv65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 18:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. Film pollution (and I didn't realise! Kicking myself, here...) DO NOT use the term anywhere near a canon-based article! And I'm removing it from the Grindylow article.


 * Sorry, but I do get slightly wound up by the film fiddlings. Michaelsanders 18:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I do not believe there is a problem with mentioning that the Loch at Hogwarts is referred to as the Black Lake in the movie(s). If a thing is called one thing in the Books, and something else in the movie, then we give canonical preference to the Books first, and mention, in passing, the alternate name from the film.  While the movies may not be "perceived" to be "as canonical" as the books, they are still a record of the Harry Potter universe, and are worthy of mention.  It is not as if there is an ongoing battle between Warner Bros. and JK Rowling over who "owns" the Potter franchise and who gets "preference" when there are differences in how that universe is portrayed.  I am convinced that if Rowling had a strong objection to the name "Black Lake", due to contradicting her storyline or whatever, then she would have forced them change it somehow "in post".
 * Of course there is the unfortunate matter of the alternative endings of Quirrell in Philosopher's Stone, and consequently whether Potter should then have seen Thestrals afterwards, but that is more of an unusual exception than a common problem between the two approaches to the storyline. To my knowledge, Rowling has ignored the Quirrell problem and only referred to her version of that story, with regards to the Thestrals.  --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 19:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Has the lake ever been called a loch? Michaelsanders 19:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well not in the books. Actually this was another old theory once kicked around, apparently lost to wiki-antiquity.  Hogwarts was theorized to be located to the north, in Scotland, where deep and sometimes mysterious lakes are called lochs (eg: Loch Ness); and what with the Durmstrang ship arriving submerged from afar, it would seem to have needed an inlet as access to the sea, and yada yada yada ... thus a loch.  Anyway in our first introduction to "the lake" in Book 1 near the end of chapter 6, as Harry arrives with the first-years, "The narrow path had opened suddenly onto the edge of a great black lake."  In book 4, the lake is also described as normally having a "smooth black surface", when the Durmstrang ship arrives, so it is not a stretch to imagine the students and teachers referring to it colloquially as "the black lake", if not properly as The Black Lake.  --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 19:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your comments/research. :-) Re lochs/lakes, Loch says "A loch ... is a body of water which is either: a lake or a sea inlet.... This name for a body of water is Gaelic[1] in origin and is applied to most lakes in Scotland and to many sea inlets in the west and north of Scotland. .... Scotland has only one natural water body actually called a lake, the Lake of Menteith." -- Again, people may have the idea that Hogsmeade / Hogwarts are located in Scotland because Loch Shiel (used for the Lake in the films) is in Scotland. -- 201.50.248.179 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, all for intelligent handling of this topic. IMHO (1) We should add a quick mention of "the lake" to Hogwarts (2) We should mention that it's called "the Black Lake" in the films, but not in the books. -- 201.50.248.179 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Hogwarts disipline is bad. Filch hangs students by there toes.

SVG Coat of Arms
I made an SVG version of the Coat of Arms og Hogwarts, and replaced the old jpeg with it. It was soon reverted because John Reaves called it "cartoony", and I must admit, the first version was pretty cartoony. But having improved it to what you see on the above, I don't see why having the old jpeg would be favourable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Rules_of_thumb

''"Use JPEG format for photographic images, and SVG format for icons, logos, drawings, maps, flags, and such, falling back to PNG when only a raster image is available. Use GIF format for inline animations, Ogg/Theora for video." ''

I'm sure there are many pretty low-res jpeg images of the US president's seal, but for some reason, an svg is preferred.

If you think this SVG looks like shit, just (say what to) improve, instead of whining "it's impossible to make it better", because thats simply not true - Hogwarts' logo is a very simple logo. A classic case of a vectorisable jpeg. S. Solberg J. 16:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It still looks ugly. And 'cartoony' is a good word - it doesn't look real, it just looks poor quality. Poor contrast and depth, poor depiction of the details (for example the central 'H'), crude depiction of the animals, over-bold colours - it looks like the central feature of an anime, not the Hogwarts coat of arms (for the record, even svg animals on real coats of arms are given better depictions than here). The jpeg, on the other hand, looks good, is readable, is realistic and tasteful. Progress and compliance with the rules are laudable goals here, but not at the expense of quality - as is recognised by the rules - this replacement coat of arms is entirely inferior and will damage the quality of the article, and therefore we are expected to disregard the rules in that area. Michael Sanders 18:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * "Over-bold colours"? Heraldry traditionally uses only seven colours — black, red, green, blue, purple, yellow and white (sable, gules, vert, azure, purpure, or, argent); so any accurate representation of a coat of arms will probably have "bold" colours. 193.122.47.162 21:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment on British education
The O.W.L.s roughly corresponds to the O(rdinary)-level (now replaced by GCSE), and the N.E.W.T.s to the A-level examinations used in the English state school system. I'm fairly sure they are used in all schools, I went to a private school and took A-Levels. Sabine's Sunbird  talk  06:06, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Troll in Grading System
Are you really sure that when One of the Weasley Twins or Lee Jorden (can't remember who) said that Troll was the lowerest mark that they were being serious? I only say this because I took that as a joke conisdering the twins sense of humour and that Snape always gave Harry D's in Potions lessons. Surely if the grade actually existed, Snape would have given it.Wild ste 22:08, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The "Troll" is definitely an actual grade, as can be seen when Harry, Ron and Hermione receive their OWL grades. The professors are not the ones to administer the OWLs, so Snape had no say in the grades given to students. Faithlessthewonderboy 16:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Professor Charity Burbage
Looking through the Potter pages, before the new book, I saw Professor Charity Burbage as the Muggle Studies teacher, which book was she introduced in? As I don't recall the name and it's not in the HP lexicon.

On Jkr's website

In Deathly Hallows 86.12.251.193 17:05, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

The Latin Motto
I don't see how the Latin motto could be correct grammatically. Dragon and sleeping are in the Nominative case (they should be in the Accusative) and "tickle" here is a perfect passive participle. Unless it is a very rare form which isn't taught until AP Latin courses, it doesn't look right at all. The closest thing I could imagine is the Future Passive Periphrastic (I think I'm meaning that) where the sentence in Latin is Passive must be reversed to be active in English. If I'm not naming it right (a summer without school will do that to you), the most famous example of what I'm trying to talk about is probably "Carthago delenda est," Carthage must be destroyed. I wouldn't be bringing this up really, but I think that the Latin is incorrect might be something to mention. If it is perfectly fine Latin and I've just forgotten the form, ignore this. Millancad 16:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

All I can tell you is that when JK came up with the motto, she actually asked a Latin teacher (or expert, not sure which) to give her the Latin form of it, and thats what he gave her. So she did her research and if it is incorrect, blame the person who gave it to her.Wild ste 11:40, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Draco and dormiens nunquam titillandus. Here dragon and sleeping are indeed in the nominative, and titillandus is a gerundive: a verbal noun meaning "a thing which should be x" where x is the original verb. The phrase itself contains no finite verb. This is a permitted idiom in Latin, and the appropriate form of the verb "sum" is assumed. As "sum" is a copula, or linking verb, Draco (and hence dormiens) does indeed take the nominative. The whole is then, literally, "The/A sleeping dragon (is) never a thing that should be tickled". "Never tickle a sleeping dragon" would be a quite reasonable translation. cmsg

I might add that given the meaning of the gerundive, a good translation which is both literal and natural would be, A sleeping dragon oughtn't be tickled. The verb ought best describes the mild, subtle implications of necessity of the gerundive + implied sum. I don't agree with the given translation, as there is no actual command in the latin, but rather a stated suggestion. You could say, "they're more like guidelines, than actual rules." However, the english is, as per Wild Ste, probably just what Rowling gave the Latin expert, who did do a good job rendering the phrase succinctly in Latin, and it is a proper, though very liberal, rendering of the Latin translation. While the linguistically minded might notice that Noun number doesn't match between the two, nor the choice of verb case, time or aspect, a non-linguistically minded Harry Potter fan could excitedly map the pair Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus to Never bother sleeping dragons, never noticing that they don't really match up. By the way, Millancad, "Carthago delanda est" is a good example of this, but in that case the est was stated, instead of implied. (More like the HP motto, you could say, Carthago delanda). Remember, this usage is rather like the english saying, "Sleeping dragons are not to be disturbed" or "Carthage is to be destroyed". The confusion is brought in when translators try to be more modern. The is to be -ed construction is english, if a bit more literary. As a point of interest, search "is to be" with the quotes in google. You will find many results, showing that it is indeed good grammar. You will also see a wikipedia article concerning an old Soviet pamphlet called, "what is to be done", translated from Что делать?, literally, "What to do?" which one also hears in english.

There is no source for the motto! Is it from an interview, a website..? It's certainly not in any of the books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.66.57.98 (talk) 19:40, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I know it's seen with the crest in the movies and the related official memorabilia. I'm trying to find a properly sourced image of it now; Wikia wikis aren't as good about providing paper trails... I also seem to recall some official source or another stating that it was "Never Tickle a Sleeping Dragon". I do believe the word "tickle" is included intentionally for its Potteresque absurdity, so it's probably not best to translate it away into a generic phrase like the current English version. Again, I'll find proper sources for this before I change anything. payco —Preceding undated comment added 04:17, 5 October 2011 (UTC).

"Parallel universe"
This article began with the words "In the wizarding world, the parallel universe created ...". This is a problem. "Wizarding world" is a phrase from fandom, and should not be used in the same tone an marterial from the books, without explicitly distinguishing the two. Secondly, Rowling has in no sense created a "parallel universe". She has written books. This is not an aspersion on the depth of the world she has described, but the phrase is inapporpriate. It would be equally so in the imagined worlds of Tolkein or Lewis.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmsg (talk • contribs) 17:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

"Hogwarts: A History" to "History"
Hogwarts: A History is the name of a fictional book about a fictional place. To use it as a title in an article seems out of place to me. History seems more apt, since it is a history of the place. 89.241.168.99 01:30, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Question
Is there any explanation of why Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw and Slytherin would have chosen the name "Hogwarts" (was it a historical name for the castle, an honorary name for a famous wizard-teacher of history? etc) --Dystopos 15:58, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think JK once said something about the hogwort plant inspiring her, perhaps it grew wild where they built the school. Jcatgrl (talk) 23:38, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Curiously, it appears exactly in Molesworth quotations. Whether this is incidental, or possibly JK Rowling read the Molesworth books and (subconsciously) copied it, I have no idea. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicodemus13 (talk • contribs) 19:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Minerva McGonagall
Should Minerva McGonagall be listed as the present head of Hogwarts? I would say no, but I am unsure as to whether 'present' refers to the present day in relation to the beginning of the series - making 'present' mean just after the battle of hogwarts - in which case it is correct, or if it refers to the epilogue, i.e. 19 years from now, in which case it is wrong. The One 16:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Minerva became Acting Headmistress by default when Snape did a bunk and was killed by Voldemort, but from JKR's interview on the Today show, there is an implication that she never became full Headmistress (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323) as she was "getting on a bit". The article is written too definitely, and I've therefore added a "fact" (citation needed) tag. AndyB 17:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Hats/caps
do hogwarts students wear hats? theres 2 references in philosopher's stone book and 1 in film, but i cant really see them wearing hats all the time.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.202.47.43 (talk) 06:48, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

gray lady
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't they gray lady helena ravnclaw, the daughter of rowena, who stole her diadem and hid it in albania? The article says it is rowena.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.117.241 (talk) 12:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of Template:HP School
Template:HP School has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Fbv65 e del / ☑t / ☛c || 21:29, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Head of Slytherin
I've just reverted an edit that involved someone changing the 'dates' that Severus Snape was head of Slytherin at Hogwarts from HP1 to HP 6 to HP1 to HP5. The reason I changed it back was because Snape was still head of slytherin in HP 6 until running away from Hogwarts and being duly preceeded by Horace Slughorn. I am right in doing this aren't I?  Lra drama 14:09, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You're absolutely right. faithless   (speak)  21:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Merge in OWLS
Does the Ordinary Wizarding Levels have any notability outside of its relation to Hogwarts? No. This article is just a reexplanation of the plot of the various harry potter books, and as such, should be merged into Hogwarts. Judgesurreal777 05:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. asyndeton 17:28, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose This is it's own thing and it shouldn't be merged. --MacMad (talk · contribs) &#xF8FF; 07:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Explain how it is its "own thing", MacMad. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  20:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * well, it does make sense to merge, in a way, becasue, for one, the grades are the same, and fleur said Beauxbatons doesnt have them so...... --Storytellershrink 02:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Also agree. - Lemonflash (do something)  00:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Fleur said that at Buabatons,(or however it's spelled) they take their examinations, so we might not want to merge if it's an aspect at other schools. However, we don't know if they're called the same thing in France, so I dunno what to do with it...... Maybe merge it here, but make a little note at the bottom that other schools may or may not have a similar system? Yeah, I think that's a good idea. Keyblade Mage 21:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC) Keyblade Mage

Residents
How is this infobox category at all noteworthy? - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  19:48, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Possible 'Popular Culture' reference
At the beginning of the opening credits for 2005 movie "Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit" the camera pans over a photograph of Gromit graduating from "Dogwarts University." Should this be mentioned as a 'popular culture' reference to Hogwarts? John 210.246.6.33 13:45, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Prolly not. however, if you can cite a reliable reference, please post it here. :) - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  02:49, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

"Well-Known Students"
Can someone explain how this listcruft is actually useful? I am tempted to yank it. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  20:37, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes
I think it looks unbelievably tacky, having all these infoboxes on the same page, when most of them have two pieces of information in the, which could easily be covered in the accompanying text. Is anyone else in favour of getting shot of them? asyndeton 21:40, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. Someone merged an article like "Places in Hogwarts" or something, but just dumped the whole thing into this one, and no one has bothered fixing it yet. faithless   (speak)  00:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree too. There is no need to repeat information from the section in an Infobox. Lord Opeth 01:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Classrooms
Is there really a need to mention all classrooms? For example, the description of the Ancient Runes classroom is ridiculous, the teacher was not even mentioned, neither the classroom, and the location is "unknown". Same with Arithmancy and some other stuff. Lord Opeth 01:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Republic of Ireland
Can anyone tell me where it is mentioned in the book that citizens of the ROI also attend hogwarts? --Camaeron (talk) 15:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure JKR confrmed it during an interview, though I can't find it at the moment. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that Seamus Finnigan is Irish. faithless   (speak)  20:58, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Bear in mind part of Ireland lies in the UK. --Camaeron (talk) 21:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but Northern Ireland has less than half the population of the Republic of Ireland. So if someone is from Ireland, chances are they're from the ROI, based strictly on the numbers. But your point is taken. faithless   (speak)  21:22, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

numbers-
since at hogwarts there are 4 houses,with 10 kids per year,out of a 7 year enrollment.5 boys,5gils,10x70=2,800 stundents..clause i'm making a lego hogwarts to scale,soo this is it. 70 ppl per house,4 houses,10 ppl in each year.plus the techears..round 20,plus 100 elves,plus like 50+ ghosts....that puts the total ppl at hogwarts like-3000..and owls to,...so studnets should be 2,800,not counting the rest,not 600- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.190.21.237 (talk) 02:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I think you need to check your math. If there are indeed ten students per house per year, then there are seventy students in each house. Since there are four houses, there would be 280 students total. faithless   (speak)  02:40, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

ahh yes,sorry bout the other 0s...96.224.176.40 (talk) 00:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * J.k Rowling has noted that due to the lack of number of students in Harry's year that she imagines Hogwarts to have about 600 students. --Jammy (talk) 22:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Well-known students
I think that this list is completely needless. The article is already large and has lots of information repeated within itself. Lord Opeth (talk) 03:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The Actual Building.
What's the name of the actual castle the film is shot in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.122.193 (talk) 00:32, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

try Alnwick CastleCheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.30.184.9 (talk) 02:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The Castle is made of different parts of Castles all around Britain, filming is just about the same. As with the comment above, I know Alnwick Castle was used for quite a few scenes. Durham Cathedral was used to film the Forbidden Corridor and the Transfiguration Courtyard in the first two films, it was later replaced by Oxford University Courtyard as the Transfiguation Courtyard. There are many other scenes shot in various buildings around Britain. --Jammy (talk) 22:55, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Technology
I added a little section on this topic, which I think is quite notable considering the books are supposed to take place in the 1990s. If anyone can find a better place to put it, or if it can be incorporated into one of the other sections, please feel free. 23skidoo (talk) 15:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Lyrics deleted
I have removed the lyrics to the school song as copyvio. WP:LYRICS and other Wikipedia copyright policies prohibit the use of copyrighted song lyrics beyond one or two lines. Even though created as part of a book, the lyrics to the Hogwarts school song are still considered to be copyrighted lyrics. 23skidoo (talk) 15:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Speculation in "Arrival" section
The first paragraph of the section named "Arrival" currently reads :


 * Students can travel to Hogwarts and the neighbouring all-magical village of Hogsmeade in many ways. One such method is the Hogwarts Express that students take at the start of each school year in the books. It is not clear if this is compulsory even though other methods have been used. Presumably, other methods would be available to preclude the need for pupils from Scotland or the North of England to make an unnecessary journey all the way to London (some of these pupils may wish to travel by Hogwarts Express merely for the experience). Harry and Ron arrived by flying the Weasley's family car in their second year after missing the train.  Other methods of travel include broomsticks, Thestrals, a one-time connection to the Floo Network, as well as the Knight Bus. On the other hand, Apparition is not possible within the premises of the castle. Hermione Granger, quoting from Hogwarts, A History, multiple times throughout the series, states this.  There is nothing written or implied, however, that might exclude the possibility of apparating to a location just outside the premises of the castle (such as Hogsmeade village) and entering the grounds from that location.

I have highlighted the problematic areas in bold

The sentence beginning "It is not clear if..." is speculation. We speculate that traveling on the Hogwarts express may be compulsory although this question is never addressed in the books or the films.

The sentence beginning "Presumably" is also speculation. That's what "presumably" means.

The following sentence is also speculation:
 * There is nothing written or implied, however, that might exclude the possibility of apparating to a location just outside the premises of the castle (such as Hogsmeade village) and entering the grounds from that location.

It's speculation because, again, it introduces a novel idea by appeal to the absence of anything to contradict the statement.

These three items of speculation are original research and I propose that they be removed, resulting in the following:


 * Students can travel to Hogwarts and the neighbouring all-magical village of Hogsmeade in many ways. One such method is the Hogwarts Express that students take at the start of each school year in the books. Harry and Ron arrived by flying the Weasley's family car in their second year after missing the train.  Other methods of travel include broomsticks, Thestrals, a one-time connection to the Floo Network, as well as the Knight Bus. On the other hand, Apparition is not possible within the premises of the castle. Hermione Granger, quoting from Hogwarts, A History'', multiple times throughout the series, states this.

--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 06:54, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Grand Staircase
After making an addition to the Order of the Phoenix game I noticed that the Grand Staircase is missing from this article, I think it's quite a important location and should really be mentioned. But I'm not the one who can do such a thing and thought it's best to note it should be mentioned and leave it to the people who can do it best. --Jammy (talk) 21:14, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What makes you think you're not qualified to do it? Why don't you draft it here or in a Sandbox (you can use mine if you want) and let others help you fix it up? (: AshleyScripter {talkback} 22:40, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm more into correcting, I've always had a curse on me meaning whenever I create a article or something similar, it always gets deleted as it's not good enough. It first happened on a fansite for a game I once played and the curse has followed me onto Wikipedia as with the Greg Benson article. I'd just prefer it that other people did it instead of me. --Jammy (talk) 22:52, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you're really not feeling up to it, how about if you just help everyone else get started by listing what you think it notable about the Grand Staircase? Ashley {talkback} 22:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * All I can really think of to add to a section about the Grand Staircase is a picture of it which I'm fairly certain can be used from the first movie. That's really all I can think of. --Jammy (talk) 23:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have a picture already, I'm sure it would be useful in the section about the Entrance Hall; maybe that would be enough. (:  Ashley {talkback} 23:27, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Classrooms, offices, and stuff
Is the list of all classrooms and offices really needed? I think that for encyclopedic purposes, that information is not important at all. Some Hogwarts locations played an important roll in the series, for example the CoS, Room of Requirement, Forbidden Forest, the PS hiding place, or even the dormitories, Hagrid's Hut, or the Library, but the list of all classrooms and most of the offices (except the Headmaster's Tower) should be removed. Same with some locations like Kitchens, Great Hall, Hospital Wing, Trophy Room, Prefect's Bathroom, Owlery, and White Tomb are useless and make this article extremely large. --Lord Opeth (talk) 14:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hogwarts houses
The Hogwarts houses article was moved into this one as it failed to meet Notability. Only a trimmed version of it was merged in here as that article also listed the founders and the ghosts, which were moved to Hogwarts staff. I also removed the section about "History" as it was a re-tell of plot and almost all the info in there was repeated (for example the opening of the Chamber). --Lord Opeth (talk) 00:20, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Staircases
In the books, do the staircases really move around as they do in the first film? Thanks. 98.27.163.42 (talk) 19:22, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do. Read Book 1, there is definitely a reference to moving staircases. - plau (talk) 17:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Tonk's school house.
Rahaka, Andromeda was listed in Slytherin. She is Tonk's MOTHER. Tonk's herself was in Hufflepuff, I'll edit it back for you.A Prodigy (talk) 09:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Peter Pettigrew
the remark about him should be removed, because of statements from last couple of chapters from DH

dumbledore has noted that they are "sorting too soon", and harry has stated in the epilogue that snape was "probably the bravest man he knew", as such wouldn't fell into slytherin, by far. sorting of the sorting hat is permanent, but it occurs at only 11 years of age.-- P rim E vi L 13:30, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Length?
Has this been discussed? This article is HUGE can't something be done about it's length?--Sugarcubez (talk) 15:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh, I wouldn't call 66k HUGE. I'm sure it could use a good ce, but it's not that big of an article. faithless   (speak)  23:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I think that this article is too long. Zappo123456789 (talk) 08:53, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Strange coming from someone who just added to the article. ;-) faithless   (speak)  09:10, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Could anyone get a sound file with the pronunciation of this word? I have no idea how is it done - probably someone records a sample and uploads it. I have no idea how to pronounce it. It looks like one of the "old English" words with the "ths" 93.105.146.121 (talk) 01:33, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's pretty easy to pronounce, just the way it's spelled - Hog-warts. Hogwarts. faithless   (speak)  03:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Battle of Hogwarts
I come with this proposal but there is actually no article to merge in here. With the sub-sections of the plot section of Deathly Hallows removed, the page of the Battle of Hogwarts (BoH) redirected nowhere, as it previously redirected to a sub-section named "Battle of Hogwarts". I created a temporary page to decide where to merge it, but an admin decided to delete it, and then protected the page.

A page named "Battle of Hogwarts" was deleted in the past, but the deleted versions refered to the battle of the sixth book (the one in the tower, Dumbledore's death, etc.) The page I recreated for further merger had completely new content, refering to the actual Battle of Hogwarts (the one of the final book), however the admin deleted it. I asked him to let us create a section in the Hogwarts article about the BoH, but he decided that such section shall not exist, and redirected the Battle of Hogwarts to the Hogwarts article and protected it again.

The Battle of Hogwarts may have no outside notability, however there are some other battles about other fictional stories such as Battle of the Morannon, First Battle of Beruna, Battle of the Line, and many more. Even with this, I am not asking to restore the page, but only to have a small section in this article (Hogwarts) giving basic information about the Battle of Hogwarts, and then maybe protect it again to avoid further recreation of the page. This is because the page is linked in several articles, and the event was crucial in the climax of the series.

Any thoughts? -- LoЯd  ۞pεth  03:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe it's worth mentioning, as it is a major event in the Harry Potter books that I often just skip to whilst reading the book as it's an exciting chapter. I do believe it is notable enough to be in this article. Jammy (talk) 20:13, 10 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it should definitely have a page, or at least a section. It's an important event in Potterverse. I mean, think about it: The Horcruxes are destroyed. House rivalries fall. For crying out loud, it's the chapter where Voldemort dies, effectively changing the course of history in the Wizarding World forevermore. If not a page, then a section is deserved, especially if other fictional battles have pages and sections of their own. SMARTALIENQT (talk) 02:49, 12 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Combining the Battle of Hogwarts with the article on Hogwarts is a massive spoiler where one wouldn't necessarily be expected. I believe information on the battle should be split to a "Battle of Hogwarts" article, with an appropriately clear link (something like "The Battle of Hogwarts is the climactic battle at the end of Deathly Hallows."). As the resolution of a widely-read series it is surely notable enough to warrant its own article. –  7 4   11:33, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

School Motto
The english translation of the motto should be changed to, "A sleeping dragon ought never to be tickled," as Titillandus is a gerundive.Captain Gamma (talk) 22:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
 * You may well be correct (I've never studied Latin, and therefore have no idea), but Rowling has specifically said that it means "Never tickle a sleeping dragon" so there's really no argument. She might have gotten her Latin wrong, but we can't presume to tell her what the motto is of a fictional school she made up. :-) Cheers, faithless   (speak)  23:14, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

OkCaptain Gamma (talk) 02:28, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * They're both correct. One is the literal translation, one is the common-syntax translation. Here's a similar example to help you understand: In Spanish "Tengo tres anos" literally means "I have three years", but the common syntax translation would make it "I'm three years old".
 * 76.250.232.91 (talk) 23:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Some notes!
I noticed just that this article is in a big MESS. So lets begin with the basic. First of all are you sure that Care for magical creatures is a optional subject in year three. Lets remind you that Harry attended this subject in his first year. The lessons are described as prety boring because they were studing about little bugs and stuff, also that there is some old proffesor who teaches this subject and he retired in book three. Than I'll suggest that we should add more details about the uniforms. I mean please, plain work robes in black, plain black hat, a pair of protective gloves and a black winter cloak with silver fastenings??? What is this? Than I am quoting "Each uniform must contain the wearer's nametag". Are you serious? Ok I am not saying to go to details and to write about the scarvs, but where are the classic uniforms, trousers for boys, skirts for girls, with the color of the their house and where the hell did you read or see a NAMETAG on their uniforms? I have a lot more stuff that I want to discuss but I really have to go now. Just think about the stuff I mentioned. ---Max(talk) 22:17, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Read the books. -- spacealientomorrow 22 April 2012 (EST)

Battle Of Hogwarts - Commanders
Harry Potter was not a commander at this battle. He did not give orders or lead troops. He just showed up at the castle in need of time to search for the diadem, and the battle was hastily arranged by others to buy the time he needed. I will remove it after a while if nobody has any objections. Jaimeastorga2000 (talk) 21:39, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I beat you to it. No characters were referred to as "commanders" as far as I can remember. faithless   (speak)  23:40, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

"Enrollment" vs "Enrolment"
Some editors have been sparring over "Enrollment" vs "Enrolment", citing the MoS National varieties of English section. This debate seems to date from 2006 (see British spelling, above). Quite apart from the spelling, "Enrolment" is a doubtful title in this context: the section is talking about the school's admissions procedure but in British educational usage "Enrolment" often means parents' applications for places (|countryGB google.co.uk search). For example, Filch's parents could have enrolled their little darling at Hogwarts, but the school would not have admitted him as a student. The MoS also says that editors should try to find words that are common to all varieties of English (see Opportunities for commonality). In that spirit I've changed the section title to "Admission", which apparently has the same meaning and spelling on both sides of the Atlantic and in South Africa, Australia, New Zealand etc. - Pointillist (talk) 09:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Slytherin House
Tom Riddle was a half-blood. Perhaps this should be mentioned for historical reasons so as to confirm that the sorting hat has not always placed pure bloods into Slytherin house. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshuagay (talk • contribs) 20:53, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Foundation
The article claims that Hogwarts was established "c. 10th century". Whence was this information found? It ought to be referenced. Fouls (talk) 19:00, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Vanishing Cabinets
The article says Peeves destroyed it, after being persuaded by Nearly Headless Nick. I don't recall this - I thought it was destroyed when Montague inexpertly Apparated out of it after being trapped inside by the twins? Dbutler1986 (talk) 19:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Nearly-Headless Nick convinced Peeves to smash it in Chamber of Secrets to distract Filch from Harry (Harry had just come back from quidditch practice and had trailed mud through the castle). Montague had to apparate out of the cabinet in Order of the Phoenix because it was broken, so didn't send him either way but trapped him in limbo between Hogwarts and Borgin & Burke's. »  Coo per Kid  (Blether · Contreebs) 02:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Armerica/British Consistancy
I don't have the time to go through the entire article changing it to British (or American, for that matter) but since it is a British book by a British author I've changed a couple of sentences to say Philosopher's Stone not Sorcerors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prokhorovka (talk • contribs) 12:14, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Edited a bit, McGonagall is headmistress after DH
I edited this page a little bit. In the most recent Rowling publication (Tales of The Beetlebard), it states McGonagall takes over as Headmistress of Hogwarts. I didn't do it right so if someone could help me out here?

173.29.159.168 (talk) 16:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

the grim
Sorry if this sounds a bit snappy, it's not ment to be, but i don't think the Grim lives in the Forbidden Forest. Even if we do assume the Grim to be real (in the harry potter series, not in real life), I still remember that it was in fact Sirius Black who was hiding in the Forest, in his dog form. This does get confusing as several times Harry saw Sirius and thought it was the Grim. If some-one agrees with me on this, d'you think you can change it, as I don't want to do it myself incase i am wrong. Thank you Lord loss210 (talk) 21:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

hidden swimming pool
At the Hogwars page is says: " According to Albus Dumbledore there is a hidden swimming pool located somewhere on the grounds". very amusing... I didn't erase it all together because I'm and new(and I may be wrong?), but I added a "citation needed". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.196.107 (talk) 20:40, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I removed it. In my knowledge, there have never been a mention of a pool at Hogwart : especially not said by Dumbledore. -- Stroppolo talk 15:46, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The only reference to one is in A Very Potter Musical, in the song Going Back to Hogwarts. Demosthenes2k8 (talk) 14:47, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Unless you count the extra-large bathing pool in the Prefect's Bathroom (Harry did a couple of laps of the pool before attempting to solve his 'egg'). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.220.67 (talk) 07:51, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

teona
harry potter —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.129.218.83 (talk) 10:16, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Hufflepuff Information
"The entrance is found behind a still life painting somewhere near the kitchens..." This painting is the entrance to the kitchens. Either Fred or George (don't remember which one) tells them to tickle the pear...thats how they find dobby in the kitchen :) 121.159.143.124 (talk) 13:30, 10 March 2010 (UTC)(4th book i believe)

I have changed the incorrect information given under Hufflepuff. Though the common room is near the kitchens, it is not behind a painting, nor does it require a password. -- spacealientomorrow 22 April 2012 (EST)

Edit request
On this page, loyalty is listed as a Gryffindor trait. In fact, it is NEVER stated in the books that loyalty is a Gryffindor trait. There are also many examples of disloyal Gryffindors. The idea of loyalty being a Gryffindor trait is a fan invention and was never stated in any of the books or movies. Loyalty IS a Hufflepuff trait (I see that's already mentioned under Hufflepuff...and that's is another point, why would two houses share the same specific trait?) The word "loyalty" should be deleted from the Gryffindor section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.227.250 (talk • contribs) 17:37, 29 March 2010

Also, honesty, patience and a sense of justice are named as Hufflepuff traits in the books, but those traits aren't listed under Hufflepuff on this page. Please add "honesty, patience and a sense of justice" to the list of Hufflepuff traits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.237.227.250 (talk • contribs) 17:39, 29 March 2010

Not done: Welcome. For each of these requests, you need to supply a reliable source. Assuming that is one of the Harry Potter books in each case, just specify which book and page numbers. Clearly for the second request, that would be the page which lists those three traits. For the first request, it should be a page which lists the Gryffindor traits, showing that loyalty is not among those traits. Read cite book to see what information is needed. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 18:13, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

I have edited the values under these two houses. Though loyalty is a popular trait among Gryffindors, it is never stated to be a trait or value to be a Gryffindor. As for Hufflepuff, the traits were changed to be more accurate.

HP1 Sorting Hat song:

You might belong in Gryffindor, Where dwell the brave at heart, Their daring, nerve, and chivalry Set Gryffindors apart; 

You might belong in Hufflepuff, Where they are just and loyal, Those patient Hufflepuffs are true And unafraid of toil;

-- spacealientomorrow 22 April 2012 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Spacealientomorrow (talk • contribs)

What about Dolores Jane Umbridge?
She's not mentioned once in the wee side bit about headmasters, though she does become head for a short period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luca01324 (talk • contribs) 08:28, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

so where is
the argentina 4rt1cl3? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brasil 2000 (talk • contribs) 21:39, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Pig on desk
The text refers to a "pig" on a desk. This seems not relevant enough to link but if linked then I suggest linking to Domestic pig ( change pig to pig ); surely it was not a Wild pig. If the scene is in a movie perhaps someone could identify the breed of pig? 69.3.72.249 (talk) 01:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Changed to pig . Thanks, Stickee (talk)  02:58, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Americangirl2187, 16 November 2010
The word "enrollment" is misspelled. There are two L's

Americangirl2187 (talk) 19:04, 16 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Rejected. Article is in British English. Carl Sixsmith (talk) 19:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Ireland
Ireland should be removed from the intro as the quote is not even a direct quote from JKR, I believe. Even if it were a direct quote, this should not be seen as cannon, in the same way that the Dumbledore article does not describe him as gay, simply because JKR stated so in an interview. It has been made clear in the book that not every country has its own wizarding school hence the need for wizards for foreign countries to join other schools. If somebody could edit it for me as I cannot.Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.49.44.152 (talk) 12:39, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Thejewosh, 15 February 2011
The second paragraph refers to the origins of the name Hogwarts. An addition is that "Hogwart" was the first of many misnomers given to the character Hoggle by Jennifer Connelly's character Sarah in the 1986 movie Labyrinth.

Thejewosh (talk) 07:29, 15 February 2011 (UTC)


 * What does that have to do with anything? Carl Sixsmith (talk) 07:54, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Not done: That has nothing to do with the subject of this article. Per WP:TRIVIA, we don't add random trivia to articles in almost all cases. Qwyrxian (talk) 14:47, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Article Picture
Shouldn't the article's main picture be the most famous shot of Hogwarts (as depicted in the film)?

http://www.google.it/imgres?imgurl=http://hpland.altervista.org/hogwarts1a.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hpland.altervista.org/index2.php%3Fhp%3Dlu&usg=__rLyXDcz6iksMskKDntmumAoaq4Q=&h=600&w=800&sz=63&hl=it&start=0&sig2=NxzvCExYbUJKhMUeIqwPWA&zoom=1&tbnid=JUpZPcrr7wBYnM:&tbnh=136&tbnw=185&ei=89JyTcXpHMmKswar15WIDg&prev=/images%3Fq%3DHogwarts%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dit%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D596%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=324&vpy=116&dur=2568&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=135&ty=110&oei=89JyTcXpHMmKswar15WIDg&page=1&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.13.28.25 (talk) 00:22, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
 * How is this "the most famous shot of Hogwarts"? When it comes to images here, we are limited by our image usage policy. I think you need to make a much better case than that, although I'm not an expert on the topic. Rodhull  andemu  00:26, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Wsboyette, 21 March 2011
Regarding an error in the article "Hogwarts" in the section "Hogwarts Express": The model of the Hogwarts Express train made by Lionel Trains is O27 gauge, not O gauge as the article now reads. This fact is verifiable by Lionel Trains corporation, and I personally own one of these train sets.

It now reads: "Lionel has released an O gauge set in their 2007 catalogue and a G gauge set for 2008."

It should read: "Lionel has released an O27 gauge set in their 2007 catalogue and a G gauge set for 2008."

Wsboyette (talk) 07:10, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Bility (talk) 08:42, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

This article is wrong
This article begins with the statement: "It is a fictional boarding school of magic for witches and wizards between the ages of eleven and seventeen." This is wrong. Hogwarts is a seven year institution not a six year one.

It's basic math. If you start School at age eleven and attend for seven years then you finish at age eighteen (11+7=18). Just because Harry chose not to attend his final year and left doesn't mean Hogwarts wasn't teaching. Submitted April 29, 2011. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.3.24.30 (talk) 14:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Coat of Arms
What is the source for the rendering of Coat of Arms here? I have looked for other sources, and there seems to be an inconsistency with the lion either being Or or Argent, is there a blazon in the book, or a depiction from the movies? 71.194.44.209 (talk) 22:49, 3 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I have just written a blazon for the arms used in the article but I have noticed that there is some deviation with the one used in the books' image. The Serpent in the books seem to be 'langued Gules' but the image has the tongue in Argent. Also, the Lion is 'armed Gules' in the image but in the book it doesn't seem to be (the detail isn't clear enough but it is heraldical trite to put gules on gules.) In my opinion, the Lion is Or. The arms used in the films is debased in its use of colours anyway so we have to ignore that. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 09:46, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Attributes of Slytherin House
The word 'cunning' is perjorative and would not form part of an aspirational statement. Should be replaced by 'shrewdness' and inserted after 'leadership', and probably after 'resourcefulness'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.178.235 (talk) 12:09, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

The thing is that "cunning" is a word that is actually used in the books, by the sorting hat. And I'm not sure "cunning" is pejorative. I would however request to remove the "most of all" before purity of blood. That's not true, it might be one cultural aspect of the house, but it's not an attribute of character that makes you sorted into that house. It is pejorative to use only carater traits for the other houses and then write that this house values most of all a "genetic" trait, which is not the case (half bloods have been put in Slytherin, so it cannot be the most valued trait.). "most of all" should be removed. Or replaced by: "The members of the house highly value "purity of blood" and consider that an essential trait making them superior to the other students" for example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.57.67.241 (talk) 10:46, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Jakovche, 21 July 2011
Could you replace the image and the thumbnail representing hogwarts' coat of arms with a more accurate version that is closer in description to the one that can be found as an illustration in some versions of the books. image links in commons: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Hogwarts_coat_of_arms_color.svg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Hogwarts_coat_of_arms_color.svg

Jakovche (talk) 14:24, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Since you should be autoconfirmed now and can make the edit yourself I am closing the edit request. From the looks below I would suggest that at this point just replace it and see if anyone complains. Jnorton7558 (talk) 05:33, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Replacing the current Hogwarts SVG coat of arms with an alternative version
I believe the current SVG coat of arms for Hogwarts is not accurate enough in its representation.Here is a preview of the version i find more accurate.

I have also uploaded an alternative version with added shading effects, although I'm not sure shading is appropriate for heraldic symbols.

Anyway, here's a preview of the original and the shaded version:

Consider both pictures, and feel free to comment.

If anyone got confused by the crosshatching lines, their colors along with the background colors should represent color patterns of each Hogwarts house:)


 * I would remove the lines and crosshatchings in the background as that makes heraldical difference. They should be plain. As for the charges, I would make the Badger more black as it looks like silver (Argent) rather than black (Sable) which makes a difference (white/silver cannot be placed on gold and vice versa). The background of the Lion must be made more red. The Eagle should be more gold in the body inc. talons. Actually, you should strive to make each creature one colour with minimal shading as any other different colour used makes heraldical difference. Also, outline the serpent's tongue and keep it red. After all this it should be correct, figuratively and heraldically. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 09:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Well done that man! When drawing the COA, bear in mind the Rules of Heraldry, which are helpfully summarised here DBD 10:37, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * TBH, the Hogwarts COA is heraldically trite and since it wasn't granted by the College of Arms it is classed as false arms but there should be at least some adherence to the rules! --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 17:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, actually, there is a correct way to do the cross hatching in heraldry: see Hatching_system. As it is on the current image used, it is incorrect for the colours. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 12:14, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Contradiction in article
In the introduction, it says "for witches and wizards between the ages of eleven and seventeen". Then in the School location and information section it says "taking children from ages eleven to eighteen". The Cake 2 (talk) 16:43, 30 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, that citation (on which the particular value of "17" is based) only talks about Harry, and not about the Hogwarts school and the ages of its students. I think this should be corrected and the reference removed. -- Jokes Free4Me (talk)

I've found a source that clarifies this and added it: I've said that it is eleven to seventeen throughout the article. —Tom Morris (talk) 19:06, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Enrolement compulsory?
Is enrolement compulsory then? Can it be turned down? 92.20.169.134 (talk) 18:29, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Students do not have to go to Hogwarts. Draco even mentioned in HP4 that he may have gone to Durmstrang, but his mother thought it was too far away. It was going to be required by Voldemort when he took over, but he obviously died before he could make that happen. -- spacealientomorrow 22 April 2012 (EST)

Hogwarts arms
Regarding File:Hogwarts_coat_of_arms_colored_with_shading.svg used in the Houses section: The image is on Commons and the author says 'their' is released work under CC-A-SA-3.0. Isn't the Hogwarts coat of arms under copyright? which would make that picture an infringement? Diego_pmc Talk 07:46, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It depends. If it is an exact copy of the image used in the book then it might infringe copyright. But it isn't. It is rather a redrawing of the one in the book with some differences. If it was a real coat of arms granted by the College of Arms then it would be more clear but since this isn't it goes under a different jurisdiction of law. However, with COAs, it is the blazon that is the most important rather than the actual illustrative depiction so the arms could be redrawn completely differently and look nothing like the one in the book. Of course, Rowling never gave a proper blazon and all we have to go by is the COA on the book. Of course, people do not know this and think that a different depiction is incorrect or not 'screen accurate', etc which is besides the point. --Charlie Huang 【遯卋山人】 17:23, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Who is Hogwart?
Is there a 'historical' Hogwart that the institution was named after? If not, is there any information on how it got it's name? Pdarley (talk) 17:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Rowling conceived the name from the plant Hogwort, as it says in the article. Glimmer721  talk  23:59, 16 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I was more wondering if there is an explanation for where the name came from in the fiction. Pdarley (talk) 14:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Dogfreak594, 21 August 2011
As you can see, your information says the mascot of Ravenclaw is an eagle. Where it clearly is a raven.

Dogfreak594 (talk) 23:37, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Unless you can find a different quote from the book, stating it's a raven. This is from chapter three of Harry Potter and the Philospher's Stone. — Bility (talk) 06:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

The mascot of Ravenclaw is not a raven, any more than the mascot of Slytherin is a slyther, or the mascot of Gryffindor a griffin, or of Hufflepuff a huffle Darkkelf99 (talk) 08:44, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

EDIT request -- Slytherin house values and Harry Potter himself -- September 13, 2011
The article states that slytherin house values "most of all, pure wizard blood". This seems to be contradicted by the epilogue of the series, where Harry Potter tells his son that it is ok to get chosen as a Slytherin. The concept of pure wizard blood was championed by the most evil wizards in the series, namely Voldemort and his ancestor Salazar Slytherin. It is the antithesis of everything the "good guys", including Dumbledore, Harry, Sirius, and the rest, value, something stated and emphasized many times throughout the books. This is in fact one of the central themes of the series.

If Harry Potter, a symbol of good in the books, told his own son that it is ok to be in slytherin, it is impossible that the highest value of slytherin house was the evil concept of "pure wizard blood". Yes, it was a value of its founder, and it led to the creation of the sinister chamber of secrets. Yes, it is a value held by many of slytherin house (malfoy and his cohorts prominent among them). But it cannot be the highest value, or even a value at all, of Slytherin House, in light of what is said in the epilogue. And it isn't because the house of slytherin changed after the defeat of Voldemort, because Harry's proof that not all Slytherins are bad is from Severus Snape, who was sorted long before voldemort's demise.

There are no references cited here, and i think that i am going to change it. Cheers

I see that this page is protected. So i ask you to remove the statement "and most of all, pure wizard blood" because it is incorrect. Harry Potter would not advise his son to be evil and embrace the twisted values of Voldemort.

Darkkelf99 (talk) 06:18, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Bility (talk) 06:12, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to the anonymous administrator who did the edit Darkkelf99 (talk) 19:43, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Also, Voldemort was a half-blood but he was in Slytherin!
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done Mdann52 (talk) 16:05, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit request from 24.98.242.53, 27 September 2011
For the Hufflepuff section-
 * In Pottermore.com designed by J.K. Rowling, it states that the Hufflepuff common room is on the corridor of the kitchens. It also states that a stack of barrels guard the common room and, in order to enter, the student must tap a series of barrels. Finally, it is the only house with a defensive entrance. Anyone who did not tap the correct barrels are doused with vinegar.

24.98.242.53 (talk) 00:33, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * No reference.  Chzz  ► 04:18, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

I changed it before reading this, and Pottermore was given as a reference above. JKR herself wrote that and now Pottermore is open to everyone, anyone to be Sorted into Hufflepuff can see it, and it's probably elsewhere on Google. Not adding it and giving the wrong information is not okay.

"What else do you need to know? Oh yes, the entrance to the common room is concealed in a stack of large barrels in a nook on the right hand side of the kitchen corridor. Tap the barrel two from the bottom, middle of the second row, in the rhythm of ‘Helga Hufflepuff’, and the lid will swing open. We are the only house at Hogwarts that also has a repelling device for would-be intruders. If the wrong lid is tapped, or if the rhythm of the tapping is wrong, the illegal entrant is doused in vinegar."

✅ -- spacealientomorrow 22 April 2012 (EST)

Edit request from 163.151.15.210, 21 October 2011
New request: in the Defense Against the Dark Arts section, it should say that no DADA teacher has stayed AT THAT POST for more than a year (during the series). Snape, while DADA for only a year, of course remains at the school for the year following his term as DADA instructor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.151.15.210 (talk) 15:43, 21 October 2011 (UTC)


 * ✅ Good point. Technically, Snape abandoned his DADA post and then later returned the next year, so you could say he did not "remain" at the school, but I've changed it to say no DADA teacher "has retained the post". Hope this is an improvement. Princess Lirin (talk) 02:25, 22 October 2011 (UTC)