Talk:Holocaust Memorial Day (UK)

[Untitled]
should be moved to UK Holocaust Memorial Day. dab 22:53, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Date
I know January 27 is the anniversary of the Auschwitz liberation, but I wonder if the date of commemoration wasn't influenced by Yom HaShoah being observed on the 27th of Nisan, the first month of the Hebrew civil calendar. Or, possibly, was the influence in the other direction? Does anyone know anything else about this?--Pharos 02:43, 12 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, I've had the same thought. In some calendars, Nisan is considered to be the first month of the Hebrew year. However, Nisan and January will never coincide: Nisan is a spring month. The Yom HaShoah article says that 15 Nisan was originally suggested (anniversary of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, 19 April 1943), but that is the date of Passover. The article says that the commemoration was moved back to the 27th because it falls eight days before 5 Iyyar, or Yom Ha'atzma'ut. However, I think that this explanation could do with a little filling out. Gareth Hughes 09:01, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Muslim Council
The section on the objections seems to have a non-neutral PoV. Suggest a less biased rewrite. Use of words like "sick" in unencylopedic. The implicit approval of popular opinion is likewise unprofessional.

Muslim boycott
"Many people believe that as a mark of respect the Muslim Council should have kept their comments to themselves"

How bias is this statement!? Where is the source to show that many people think this?

Personally I agree with the idea of it being called Genocide day. The Holocaust often refers to the specific Nazi holocaust of the Jews. The day should recognise all genocides, it is disrespectful not to. Anyone who dies from the result of genocide has an equal right to be recognised, and we have a responsibility to value human life equally. Simon Kantorowicz, Bristol


 * This section is completely inappropriate and unacceptable. As a son of a Jewish mother who escaped Austria in 1943 I deplore such statements, and agree with the institution of a "Genocide Memorial Day" to remember the Shoah, Armenian and Rwandan genocides, et al.  Please can someone edit this entry?

This paragraph has been vandalized. I am reverting it. Zargulon 11:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've just completed a major re-edit. hopefully it is without all the weasel words but still tackling the issues. The issues being; the boycott by the MCB & the controversy that ensued around the motives for the boycott. Veej 15:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Veejs edits
I liked your edits Veej but I thought the page shouldn't be dominated by that interview transcript which is available by clicking the link. Please feel free to continue to edit. Thanks for the sources. Zargulon 15:35, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Removal of egalitarian
I removed the word egalitarian, since it usually refers to parity between people rather parity between genocides. I don't think it's necessary anyway since that sentence is perfectly non-POV without it. There is no implication in that sentence that the Muslim advisors in question had any hidden motives for making the proposal of replacing Holocaust day. It is however POV to suggest that replacing Holocaust day with a Genocide day is intrinsically fair (although that opinion is doubtless genuinely held by those Muslim advisors), so if 'egalitarian' is put back then it should be accompanied by a pov warning (as well as a source that it is the actual alleged reason given by the Muslim advisors).Zargulon 17:09, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Are you claiming that acknowledging genocide in general is intrinsically unfair, and the use of the term egalitarian is inaccurate? Additionally, if it is a view "genuinely held by those Muslim advisers", isn't it's use in that sentence accurate as well? - Beowulf314159

Edit conflict

I'll try to deal with both those points.
 * My belief is that acknowledging genocide in general is an excellent thing to do and very far from being unfair. Replacing Holocaust day to do so is, in my opinion, unfair.
 * I think the sentence is ambiguous.. somewhere between tacitly acknowledging that having a genocide day instead of holocaust day is fairer, and merely saying that that was the opinion of the Muslim advisors. I would prefer it to be more explicit.

I'll be away for about 8 hrs. Feel free to be bold. Zargulon 17:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

As I see it, much space is given to the opinions of others regarding the MCB, but you are carefully keeping opinion out of the MCB's side of the debate in the interests of NPOV? I'm neither Moslem, or Jewish, nor British, so I don't have a vested interest one way or another - but from my perspective, the section as it stands is not NPOV - Beowulf314159 17:21, 27 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd welcome more of the MCB side of the story but it has to be presented as such, in the same way as the various non-MCB opinions (and there were more of them!). Zargulon 17:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Internation
Hey, I heard it's called International Holocaust Memorial Day, how come it's only commemorated in UK? I'm from Sweden, and we here also remember the day and have various events and commemorations. --Shandristhe azylean 22:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Commemoration of the Holocaust (Dates?)
What is the significance of the seemingly random dates following the names of cities in the UK here. I can't quite understand why Manchester has a number like 2452. Are these supposed to be years or are they relating to something else? Whatever they are, I think their purpose could be clearer. P toolan 00:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Muslim council again
An IP editor has inserted (and reverted) the following claim: "They are not against remembering the Holocaust per se, their view is simply that it is unfair to remember one particular genocide, whilst ignoring the many others that have occured thoughout history." Could this be sourced please before re-instertion? Thanks. Jayjg (talk) 04:44, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * No no, please read thier original press relese: http://web.archive.org/web/20010309212038/http://www.mcb.org.uk/news260101.html  it make it clear they objected to 2 things, the exclusion of Palestine, and the inclusion of the Armenian genocide and gay Holocaust victims.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by OktoberSunset (talk • contribs) 20:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Clarifacation!
Is the memorial day just for Jews or can other groups like the Gypsys, gays, lesbians, Freemasons, disabeled and communists join in? I only know of a Jewish and homasexual eliment to the memoial day. I think this should be clarified in the text. --Longend. 02:51, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It's completely clear from the first sentence of the article. Zargulon 10:27, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * In Britain we remember all those that died through the systematic murders the Nazis committed during WWII. Alexsanderson83 19:14, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Clear from the first sentence that The Holocaust involved mainly Jews, but was not a Jewish tragedy alone. It's not 'A Holocaust' that they are talking about it is 'The Holocaust' and that was what the Nazis did in the various camps and other places during World War Two. 194.75.128.200 17:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * It wasn't 'mainly jews' look at the Victims of hte Holocaust page, it was mostly Slavic people killed, thos Jews were the single biggest group, they were not the majority. opps forgot to sign OktoberSunset (talk) 20:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Ownership Issues
I am going to create a page Ownership of the Holocaust as some are claiming it to be a Jewish tragedy alone, and others claming it to be the systematic killing of those the Nazis deemed their enemies. Alexsanderson83 19:17, 21 April 2007 (UTC)


 * @Alexsanderson83 That seems to have been ineffective. I am not sure what we do about this. This is not even a page about the Holocaust in general, it's about a specific memorial event that does include the other victims, see my comment below. I just noticed how old this comment is, I am not sure if you'll still be watching. Irtapil (talk) 01:34, 28 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Re reading it there is a little "and others" near the start, I don't know who else needs adding or where? The main Holocaust page is more of an issue, it fairly actively excludes other groups. Irtapil (talk) 01:57, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

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Focus too narrow, erases many victims
The event's own website prominently includes other victims of the Nazis, including [ https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/nazi-persecution/gay-people/ gay people], [ https://www.hmd.org.uk/news/persecution-roma-varied-across-east-and-south-east-europe/ Roma], and [ https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/nazi-persecution/disabled-people/ disabled people].

My own bias is that I'm a disabled Queer. I am not very knowledgeable about the Roma situation but their frequent erasure and continued persecution worries me.

We definitely should NOT minimise the genocide against the Jews (e.g. the annon above saying the Nazis killed more Christians), but currently this article almost completely erases every other victim (I'm almost surprised that it doesn't skip straight from point 4 to point 6 when it gets to the Holocaust Memorial Day (UK) near the end). Irtapil (talk) 01:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

Re reading it there is a little "and others" near the start, I don't know who else needs adding or where? The main Holocaust page is more of an issue, it fairly actively excludes other groups. I don't know if that is justifiable to the term to refer to just a subset of Nazi war crimes. Is there a broader page that covers the whole thing? Irtapil (talk) 02:03, 28 January 2023 (UTC)