Talk:Home Alone/Archive 2

Kevin's family is Scottish
Happy New Year. Marv is Jewish as in "Home Alone 2" he said, "Happy Hanukkah Marv." when he and Harry robbed "Duncan's Toy Chest". Kevin's family is Scottish. If somebody's last name begins with Mc it's an indication that they're Scottish American. The neighborhood that Kevin's family lives in is a hint that they're Upper Middle Class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.68.211.187 (talk) 02:46, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Correction. Mc is also found in Irish last names e.g. McGuire and McGuinness. (Tk420 (talk) 19:49, 28 September 2013 (UTC))
 * I have removed these additions. They constitute WP:OR.  We can't speculate about fictional character's backgrounds.  It is also trivial, if the writers didn't think it was important enough  to mention that they were Scottish why should we mention it here? --Leivick (talk) 23:28, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * There is an Argentine football player whose name is Kevin McAllister, and he is subject to many jokes related to "Home Alone". You said that a family name starting with "Mc" is an indication that they're "Scottish American". In the case of the Argentine football player, he is Scottish "American" in the sense of Argentina being one of the 35 countries in the continent called "America"; but there are also Scottish people in areas of European settlement other than the USA or Argentina. There are Scottish in Canada, Australia, and Scotland too! So, I would simply state that "Mc" is an indicator of a name being of Scottish origin, regardless of the continent they live in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.76.122.180 (talk) 15:24, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Highest Grossing Live Action Comedy?
I recall reading somewhere that Meet the Fockers was the highest grossing live action comedy. Box Office Mojo seems to support this theory. Home Alone on BOM and Meet the Fockers on BOM DanielDPeterson (talk) 09:17, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
 * With a little more research, the article that claims it is the highest-grossing comedy of all time says it made $533 mil, more than Meet the Fockers (at $516 mil). However, BOM (which I would consider a much more reliable source) says that Home Alone made $476 mil. DanielDPeterson  ( talk ) 04:46, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

According to Guinness World Records 2007 the highest grossing Christmas film was How the Grinch Stole Christmas (2000 film) which grossed $340 million. That is also a live action comedy so in other words the record held by Home Alone has been beaten whether it is for live action comedy or Christmas film. I remember seeing Home Alone listed as the highest grossing comedy film in the 2001 edition of GWR but it went to press before the Grinch was released. Tk420 (talk) 21:28, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Home Alone - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 22:01, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

List of films featuring home invasions
I added a "See also" section containing List of films featuring home invasions to the article but was reverted by, who said it is not a home invasion. In the list article, this film is backed by this among other home invasion films. I think that the interpretation here is too strict; even if one Googles for "home alone" "home invasion", one sees incidents labeled as home invasions even with just kids home alone. Even this says, "For one sequence, the movie becomes a cat-and-mouse cartoon and a lampoon of home-invasion thrillers." I excluded it from the list before, but that and The Ref are both referenced as humorous takes on the subject matter. I think it should be included here and on the list article. Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 01:29, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Per our article, home invasions are crimes in which someone enters an occupied house to commit some kind of violent crime against the occupant. This is clearly distinguished from burglary, for example, where someone enters a house, occupied or not, with the intention of stealing something from the house. The Wet Bandits' modus operandi is to enter vacant homes, not even occupied homes. However, even after they realize the home is occupied, the reason they enter anyway is because they know Kevin is alone and a child. However, there is no indication that their intent is to commit violence. Those people who call this home invasion are using the term very loosely, and I don't think it applies. However, I don't feel strongly about this, and if there's a consensus to restore the See also, that's fine. Thanks, Erik, for bringing it to the talk page.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:29, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * , I restored the "See also" section and referenced The Baltimore Sun to explain the lampooning. Per WP:SEEALSO, we can include links to a tangential topic. In addition, at List of films featuring home invasions, I added a note using the same reference, identifying Home Alone as a kind of special case. Would that setup work? Any suggestions to change to something else? EDIT: It's possible that the Sun is referring to the end of the film where the burglars chase Kevin into another home? Erik (talk &#124; contribs) 16:04, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
 * At this point, Erik, these are mushy judgment calls. As I don't feel that strongly, I'd rather let others decide the issues. If no one objects, then your latest edits will stand. Mostly I watch this article because it's a magnet for disruption, and your edits, of course, don't fall into that category.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:29, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

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Harry's last name is Lime
Daniel Stern lists Harry's full name as "Harry Lime" in the description of his video here in his new viral video where he "reprises" his role: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSmGxRGut6w — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.96.204.95 (talk) 12:34, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

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Larry Hankin in the opening credits of Home Alone
Larry Hankin, who portrayed Larry Balzak in Home Alone, was in the opening credits of that movie. It maybe a minor role, but with him listed in the opening credits, he should on the cast section of that movie. BattleshipMan (talk) 14:57, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement of Home Alone cast list
Because issues have been raised regarding the listing and positioning of cast members and their character names, the list (linked here and again below), depicting the film's exact on-screen credits, serves as a reference tool for resolving any uncertainties. As an example, the character portrayed by Anna Slotky, although listed, as of this writing, in the article's cast list as "Brooke", appears in the credits as "Brook".

I reduced the cast list from 19 names to 14 names by adding 11th-billed Larry Hankin, but deleting 15th-billed Daiana Campeanu, 16th-billed Jedidiah Cohen, 17th-billed Kieran Culkin, 18th-billed Senta Moses, 19th-billed Anna Slotky and 20th-billed Terrie Snell. I also arranged the list per on-screen credits since, other than the first three names, the other cast members appeared to be in random order. It may be also noted that, among the 52 credited cast members, there are, as of this writing, 7 others with Wikipedia entries — 23rd-billed Matt Doherty, 24th-billed Ralph Foody, 27th-billed Billie Bird, 28th-billed Bill Erwin, 29th-billed Gerry Becker, 37th-billed Alan Wilder and 38th-billed Hope Davis.

As a follow-up, I appended, within the cast list, the sub-section header, "Selected cast list in closing credits", listing the 10 cast members — mentioned above — who are subjects of Wikipedia articles and have their names listed solely in the closing credits. The revised list also includes John Candy, who is not listed in the opening credits and holds 11th place in the closing credits where Larry Hankin, who has 11th billing in the opening credits, is moved to 12th place. A complementary discussion of Home Alone's cast credits is also at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film/Archive 14.

It may also be noted that had the cast list been confined to the first 14 names, it could be considered as a complete listing up to that point. However, as of this writing, the list omits the 15th-billed and 16th-billed cast members, but includes the 17th, 18th and 19th-billed names, thus qualifying for placement under section header "Selected cast list". &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 19:17, 8 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The only "issues" were raised by you, and you have repeatedly disrupted both the article and the talk page in pushing your version. Please stop.  You have no consensus for the changes you are seeking. ---  The Old Jacobite   The '45  01:21, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your taking the time to respond, however briefly, to my comments. You had previously deleted my comments, which were aimed at improving the cast list, not once, not twice, but four times --- 1, 2, 3, 4, all with the use of WP:TW vandal revert, in clear violation of Talk page guidelines.
 * It should be noted that in three of your four TW reverts of my posts, you deleted not only the complete cast list that I posted, but also the separately-posted replies that I gave to the editor who initiated this discussion and who pointed out that the name of 11th-billed Larry Hankin, which appears in the opening credits, was missing from the cast list, while names much further down the list were retained.
 * The same editor had raised the deletion of Hankin's name at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Film/Archive 14, thus your contention, addressed to me, above, that "The only "issues" were raised by you" is unsustainable.
 * Ultimately, I am baffled that a longtime editor such as yourself who has made what may be thousands of film article edits should be so insistent upon retaining a clearly disfunctional cast list in which all the names, except the first three, are in random disarray and, furthermore, to accuse another longtime editor, who has attempted to put the cast list in order, of having "repeatedly disrupted both the article and the talk page in pushing your version".
 * As you well know, we do not create our own cast list versions on Wikipedia. The on-screen version is the one that prevails, not "my version" or "your version".
 * The currently existing cast list version is obviously unacceptable under any circumstances --- a number of the character names do not reflect their on-screen form, and the name order, other than for the top three names, is completely random.
 * There are only four possible forms that this cast list can take:
 * 1) The complete 52-name cast list as it appears in the closing credits --- probably unlikely
 * 2) The 11 names in the opening credits (all 11 have Wikipedia articles), plus the 13 cast members who have Wikipedia articles, but are only listed in the closing credits --- a total of 24 names --- more likely than the 52-name list in form 1, but probably still unlikely.
 * 3) A streamlined version of form 2, consisting of the 11 names in the opening credits, plus the next 3 names listed in the closing credits --- for a total of 14 names (all of whom have Wikipedia articles) --- the likeliest version and the one that I posted today after reverting a vandal's name additions to the cast list and the infobox cast.
 * 4) The last possibility is the most streamlined cast list, simply consisting of the 11 names in the opening credits. Of course, if you feel that even the 11-name list includes minor names, the list could be cut down to the first six names, the only ones who have a separate on-screen name card, but I suspect that other editors would object to such brevity.
 * It is crucial to note that I am not presenting various forms of "my version", but simply the same version, progressively diminished, so as to avoid the accusation of listing "minor roles".
 * Regarding the question of "minor roles", you inexplicably objected to the addition of 11th-billed Larry Hankin as "minor", but have continued to protect the unsustainable 19-name out-of-order jumble that is the current cast list and which includes such redlinked / unlinked minor players as 15th-billed Daiana Campeanu, 16th-billed Jedidiah Cohen and 20th-billed Terrie Snell.
 * Your final words: "Please stop. You have no consensus for the changes you are seeking" seem to indicate that you feel you have consensus for keeping the cast list in a jumble, while I have no consensus to list the cast in on-screen order. I presume you wouldn't have spent all those past years editing Wikipedia if you didn't feel that you were working for the advancement of knowledge. Don't you think you should take a closer look at your behavior here? &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 03:56, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

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Further suggestions for improvement of Home Alone cast list
For the record, I was the one who added under "Cast" *Daiana Campeanu as Sondra [McCallister, Kevin's cousin] *Jedidiah Cohen as Rod [McCallister, Kevin's cousin] *Senta Moses as Tracy [McCallister, Kevin's cousin] *Anna Slotky as Brook [McCallister, Kevin's cousin] and *Terrie Snell as Aunt Leslie [McCallister, Uncle Frank's wife]. No one is proposing "removing the names of the entire cast of actors on that section" since those are the names that appear in the on-screen credits and thus belong in the cast list.

Also, there is no "common mistake" regarding "Brook" — the character is named "Brook" in Home Alone and named "Brooke" in Home Alone 2 and the name should appear in Wikipedia's credits in the same form as it appears in each respective film — we do not second-guess the film's own credits as to which name form is the "common mistake". There is no need to endlessly repeat "" for each family member, or to describe both Harry and Marv by the unwieldy "", or to describe Marley as "" or to describe Gus Polinski as "". All of those descriptions are already in the cast list.

Perhaps someone will decide that Officer Balzak needs to be described as "" or some such. To avoid having to include descriptions in the cast list of Uncle Frank, Aunt Leslie and Officer Balzak are, they can easily receive brief mentions under "Plot". Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 04:36, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, Roman. That's a credit error on Home Alone regarding and it should not be "Brook" on Home Alone. Don't you go second guess it. If you problem with that, you can forget about it. How it should be credits as seen in closing credits DOES NOT matter. We have cast sections and concise character descriptions for reasons and how you did so was poorly constructed. It best to leave it as is. BattleshipMan (talk) 07:05, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Just dipping in, but is someone saying that the actual film incorrectly credits an actress as "Brook", when it should be "Brooke"?   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  13:59, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That's correct. This movie's end credit incorrectly credits her as "Brook", while The second film correctly credits her as "Brooke", just like Air Force One, which General Ivan Radek (who was mentioned in the movie itself) was incorrectly credited as General "Alexander" Radek, and Olympus Has Fallen, which Admiral Joe Hoenig (who was mentioned by that name in the movie itself) was incorrectly credited as Admiral "Nathan" Hoenig. I thought I should let you know that. BattleshipMan (talk) 14:50, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, BattleshipMan, while some portions of articles describing individual films, particularly the content under section header "Plot", consist of WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH, editors should not insert their own researched content in place of existing on-screen text without an explanation. Thus, the on-screen credit "" should be rendered in Wikipedia's cast list as "". In the same manner, Wikipedia's cast list for Air Force One should indicate "" and Wikipedia's cast list for Olympus Has Fallen should indicate "".
 * WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH is also used, of course, in the construction of many Wikipedia cast lists since numerous films, including such major titles as To Kill a Mockingbird, do not contain on-screen cast lists with character names. Thus, in many instances of films based on books, editors tend to add various cast list details not found in the film, such as "" instead of "".
 * For editors with further interest in the topic of credits, it should be noted that a more-general version of this discussion, which started on September 25, 2018, may be found at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film.   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 18:09, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * No, closing credits name errors don't count as official names mentioned in-universe. They are considered out-of-universe and it's a error on their part. Therefore, they will not count as official name credits and it should have the names mentioned in-universe like General Ivan Radek instead of General Alexander Radek in Air Force One as seen here and like Admiral Joe Hoenig instead of Admiral Nathan Hoenig in Olympus Has Fallen. BattleshipMan (talk) 03:41, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Ok, so in those other instances we're talking about a name change, not a spelling issue. Is there a reliable source that says the end credits misspelled her name? If we're going by Home Alone 2, the simplest counter argument is that Home Alone 2 spelled it wrong. Unless there is a reliable source (that would have to come from the writer/director/etc. because they made the film) then this page should reflect "Brook" (while Home Alone 2 would say "Brooke").  BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  18:13, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * An observation which puts the matter into perspective. Since "Brook" is a legitimate name form — Miss Universe 1997 Brook Lee or Miss Oregon 2004 Brook Roberts — and is pronounced the same as "Brooke", the form that is used in the on-screen cast list should be accepted as the correct form for each particular film in which it is credited.    Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:39, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * That doesn't count as official source of name material of the character. BattleshipMan (talk) 03:41, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * What could be a more "official source", that is easily accessible to the entire public, than the film's own on-screen credits?   Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:24, 29 September 2018 (UTC)


 * As of right now, there is no other reliable source saying that this film incorrectly spelled Brook's name. Thus, this page should be "Brook" and HA2 should be "Brooke". You cannot argue, unless you have a reliable source stating such, that this film was the one in error and not Home Alone 2 that was in error.   BIGNOLE     (Contact me)  15:28, 1 October 2018 (UTC)