Talk:Home Improvement (TV series)/Archive 1

Untitled
What secret is revealed in "E: True Hollywood Story?"

Was Wilson's face really exposed in the final episode? If I remember correctly, he showed it after the show while bowing in front of the audience. – Torsten Bronger 00:17, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes it was. I saw the final episode, it was great.  Too bad the actor has passed away. Jokem (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

MC Hammer (TVography: Tool Time)
Can someone explain this for me? Golden Husky WMC 19:40, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Years Home Improvement took place
While viewing the date Home Improvement aired, my brother, a big fan, noticed that the date this website has as the start of Home Improvement (September 1,1991) varies from another web site (www.http://www.morepower.com/homeimpr.html) which has the beginning date as September 17,1991. The ending dates, however, are the same.
 * The actual date IS in fact September 17... September 1 is wrong of course. May 25 1999 is the finale airing of the show. 65.7.58.44 04:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Subliminal message
Somebody should add a line about the (quite unknown) subliminal message showing in each episodes intro when Heidi/Debbe Dunning is introduced. For a few frames you can clearly see a "Watch Tool Time" screen for a split second. If you have an episode on your PC you can check it yourself with frame-to-frame skipping. Story/Proof here (in German): 87.193.15.109 00:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Mixed up Intro
Anyone else feel the intro is sort of mixed up?

"Home Improvement was an American television sitcom starring actor/comedian Tim Allen, and loosely based on his stand-up comedy routine that ran on ABC for eight seasons from September 1991 to May 1999."

doesn't that imply that his stand-up comedy ran for eight seasons?

--Pongles 21:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yea, it does sound like that.Peter Tangney 23:00, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The Great US TV on UK DVD Retreat!

 * "Buena Vista will no longer release the show in Region 2 or 4 due to poor sales. Buena Vista also discontinued The Golden Girls in those regions, this is considered a part of The Great US TV on UK DVD Retreat."

You know who's responsible for this, don't you? The government! 138.69.160.1 16:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Issues
The article has two issues I noticed - the tenses flipflop throughout the article from past to present. Since the show is wrapped, I suggest any present tenses be changed to past tense.

Secondly, the heading 'history' is really very little to do with history - it's more of a longer plot synopsis. I suggest it be reworded or removed. In fact, I think I'm going to do that now - If anyone has a problem with it, feel free to respond. TheHYPO 12:23, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The article could do with a bit of condensation IMO, as some of it is basically written twice. I reckon we could drop some of the running gags (some of them aren't even "gags" let alone running ones), or move them somewhere else.  Some parts of this article jumps about from section to section, it doesn't seem to "flow" properly.  Hmm, I'll think about that.  Some of the premise content would be better elsewhere on the page though. NKTP 23:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Just thought I'd mention that at one point it states that Tim knocked out Bob Vila with a 4x4. Now that is a large car I suggest someone changes it to 2x4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.107.222.124 (talk) 21:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

cleanup
I did a biug cleanup on teh article, removing dead weight sections, re arranging some sections, adn trimming off the useless gab in teh sections. I will add references later. Karrmann 20:25, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * What did you say? Anthony Rupert 15:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Kinda scary that he'd edit stuff eh? Icarus&#39;sNewBag (talk) 02:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Show Cancellation
THE RATINGS FOR HOME IMPROVEMENT IS HOUSEHOLDS NUMBERS AND NOT VIEWERS. The article says that, per a 1999 Time Magazine story, Jonathan Taylor Thomas's departure cost the show 3 million viewers "which was probably a big factor in its subsequent cancellation." Is this "big factor" per Time or a personal opinion? According the the E! Hollywood Story piece on Home Improvement, the leads felt the show had become stale, and Tim Allen announced in January 1999 that he would not renew his contract for a ninth season, despite being offered twice what he was currently getting ($1.25 million per episode). It would appear, therefore, that the show ended while it was still in the Top Ten in US ratings, and was not "cancelled" by the network. Signinstranger 16:33, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't believe the show was "cancelled" by ABC, more rather Tim Allen had decided that the show had run its course and therefore there wouldn't be a 9th season. Mind you Jonathan Taylor-Thomas leaving the show at the beginning of the 8th season may well have contributed to this decision, as a lot of people feel the show fell apart after he left. NKTP 22:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Taylor family
In this section, apparently the birthdates are listed for the characters rather than for the actors that play them, but it's written in such a fashion that it causes for confusion. Anyone agree? Anthony Rupert 14:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Although Jonathan Taylor Thomas is older than Zach Ty Bryan, his Randy character is younger than Brad, with Brad being born in 1981, and Randy being born "13 months" later, as Randy himself said, which would be 1982. There was also a transition graphic in one episode that showed a tombstone that said "Randy Taylor, 1982-1994." It would be best to just give the charcters' birthdates, not the actors'.

Giving Jill's birthdate would be more difficult, since it changes during the show. In one episode, she goes to her 20th high school reunion; the class of 1973, meaning she would be born in 1954 or 1955. Later on, however, her birtdate changes to 1956. (131.183.101.3 19:16, 30 December 2006 (UTC))


 * I've just moved the D.O.B's along a bit to make it a lot more clearer that the dates are the birthdays/months of the characters in Home Improvement, not the actors. The transition mentioned above can be seen in Season 3, its the "Reality Bytes" episode.  You can't miss it. NKTP 21:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
I added the cleanup tag because there are several dead links, some poorly written sections, some mixed up spelling, some bad information. FrozenPurpleCube 17:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

is vs. was
This is a comment about recent edits to this article. Many pages say was, because many unexperienced editors keep changing it to was. That doesn't make it correct. see also Talk:The O.C.. The show is a "work" and the work still exists (ergo, use present tense "the show is a sitcom"). A broadcast run is an EVENT that has past (ergo, use past tense "was originally broadcasted by Fox from date to date" --TheDJ (talk • contribs • WikiProject Television) 21:56, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

which episode
Which episode is it that at the end has J.T.T holds up a little lion and Tim Allen holds up Buzz Lightyear and "inpersonates" him? (71.188.156.187 (talk) 03:07, 2 May 2008 (UTC))

in which episode does one of the boys smoke pot and the parents are trying to find out which one? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 217.86.92.33 (talk) 08:27, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

>> Season 7 Episode, "What a Drag." You can buy Season Seven on August 7, 2007 in the United States!!! GreysAnatomyFan8894 05:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

kids
just something that slightly annoyed be for ages is why to all three child actors have to have three names e.g zachary ty taylor? whats wrong with zachary taylor, or is this just some american rule i don't know.--Pinknoise 14:23, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No American rule that I know about! Actually, that's Zachary Ty Bryan, not Taylor (but who cares? lol). However, in the final two seasons of the show, Taran Noah Smith was credited as just Taran Smith.

nonsense sentence
"Some might also conclude that there were similarity with this show and the 1960s sitcom My Three Sonssimilarities are common for this show who's writers are known for stealing ideas and passing them off as their own. "

This sentence doesn't make sense. 81.108.103.145 23:43, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

This line is also hostile and if there are not any facts to back it up, it should be removed. Apollo729 15:40, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Didn't Patricia Richardson replace another actress?
I seem to remember there being some controversy shortly after the show debuted about the orignal actress playing Tim's wife being fired after the pilot episode due to lack of chemistry. The pilot was reshot after Ms. Richardson was hired. Does anybody remember who the other actress might have been? And is the original pilot episode available somewhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.64.156.41 (talk) 14:46, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The original actress was Frances Fisher, who went on to portray Rose's mother in *Titanic.65.7.50.44 (talk) 03:48, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Theme Song
It would be a major gaffe to allow this article to go on neglecting to mention what was probably the most interesting aspect of this show, the theme song--most notably, the bizarre grunting/singing noises Tim made at the beginning and end of the song (sounded like "huuueeaaarrhh"). Chalkieperfect 22:09, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Home Improvement cast.jpg
thumb|right|This piece of discussion is about this picture. Image:Home Improvement cast.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 17:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I have now added what I think is a bit more substantial specification of the image.Spitfire (talk) 21:20, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup Of Intro
Intro needs tons of work. "home improvement is a great show" is hardly neutral —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icarus'sNewBag (talk • contribs) 02:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

# of DVDs in season
It says in the article that the region 2 DVDs consist of 4 discs. I guess this is true for seasons 1-3, but my Season 4 set has only three discs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.63.8.145 (talk) 16:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Looking for help writing an article about the spin-offs and crossovers of this series
I am writing an article about all of the series which are in the same shared reality as this one through spin-offs and crossovers. I could use a little help expanding the article since it is currently extremely dense and a bit jumbled with some sentence structures being extremely repetitive. I would like to be able to put this article into article space soon. Any and all help in writing the article would be appreciated, even a comment or two on the talk page would help. Please give it a read through, also please do not comment here since I do not have all of the series on my watch list. - LA @ 16:52, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Toy Story
I recall in this film there was a toolbox which had the name 'Binford' on it. Nice touch... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jokem (talk • contribs) 15:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I'm currently working on the Toy Story Article, and I'm trying to get the Trivia section facts sorted out to where they need to be. Here are some that pertain to Home Improvement. I'll leave it to y'all to decide whether or not they should go somewhere in a Home Improvement article.


 * This movie was referenced five times on Tim Allen's sitcom Home Improvement. The first time, two trick-or-treaters come to the door of Tim's house, one dressed as Simba from The Lion King, and the other dressed as Buzz Lightyear. Randy answers the door, and gives the Simba more candy than the Buzz. Note :Jonathan Taylor Thomas, who plays Randy, voiced young Simba in The Lion King. The second time, Tim's niece Gracie plays with a Buzz Lightyear action figure. Another reference occurs in one of the outtakes during the credits, where Tim repeats Buzz's built-in phrases. Another reference is in one episode when Tim says to his brother Marty I'll love you for infinity and beyond. The last reference is in an argument between Tim and his brother Marty when Tim says, "I'm not talking to you for 'infinity and beyond'".


 * Conversely, Toy Story makes at least one reference to Tim Allen's sitcom. Sid's tool box, which Buzz and Woody struggle to remove from the milk crate which imprisoned Woody, was adorned with the Binford Tools logo on its side, alluding to the fictional tool manufacturer that sponsored the Tool Time program on Home Improvement.

Cheers! SunDragon34 (talk) 22:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Most-Watched Sitcom
The intro says this show was the most-watched sitcom of the '90s, but that seems strange to me; weren't shows like Seinfeld much more watched? Metsfanmax (talk) 17:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how one can say that any show the THE most watched show of a decade. However, since Home Improvement never fell out of the top ten, it could certainly make a stake to that claim. It would probably be better to say, though, that Home Improvement was one of the most popular shows of the decade.--Mulder8281 (talk) 13:55, 24 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I took out the claim that the show was the most watched sitcom of the 90s. From the figures in the Seinfeld article and its citations, it appears that Seinfeld (if not other sitcoms) had higher ratings. Boubelium (talk) 17:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Tool Time
Tool time should be merged into this article, it has no business on its own.  JAGUITAR    (Rawr)  17:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup
This wiki article makes Home Improvement fans look foolish. It's written as if a high school student put it together. I would be willing to help clean up...but it's a big job. Anyone else willing to join in?

One thing I think that needs to go is the "running gags" section, which is about the only area that users add to nowadays. This belongs on a fan page, not a wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mulder8281 (talk • contribs) 14:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The "running gags" section needs to go, IMO, outside a brief mention. Most of is fancruft, which is not permitted per Wiki standards. Modor (talk) 19:22, 13 January 2009 (UTC)Modor

Local references
Can anyone make a section about how the show frequently references things local to detroit? For instance Tim often wears shirts of local (with in an hour or two of detroit) universities and mentions cities around detroit as well as near Toledo and Windsor. For instance in the episode I'm watching now he says "the boys at motor city flathead in ypsilanti sent that over" not sure if that is a real business or not, but ypsi is certainly a real placeMwv2 (talk) 04:55, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Season 7 Region Four Release Date
Since I cannot edit the page I will ask if someone who can to put this up.

The Complete Seventh Season (Region 4) will be released 18/3/2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshm1995 (talk • contribs) 09:19, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Source? Can't add it without a source. JeremyWJ (talk) 09:32, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

http://www.sanity.com.au/product/product.asp?sku=2120501 http://www.dvdorchard.com.au/ProductS1TV.asp? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshm1995 (talk • contribs) 05:23, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I have added it. JeremyWJ (talk) 06:47, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Typo
In the section "The departure of Jonathan Taylor Thomas", the first sentence "In the show's eigth season" has a clear typo. The article is semi-protected right now, so I'm unable to fix it. Burninfire251 (talk) 02:33, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. Thank you. JeremyWJ (talk) 13:20, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Jettisoned?
The second sentence in the second paragraph has the word "jettisoned" in it.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jettison?qsrc=2886, jettisoned basically means to throw away.

With that definition in mind reread the sentence fragment in question: "It jettisoned family programming into a new era" - It just doesn't feel right.

I suggest changing it to "catapulted".
 * I removed that part from the paragraph as its not really appropriate. At least not without a source.  I also merged the first two paragraphs together and reworded them.  JeremyWJ (talk) 04:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Cast members not on the show
Masiela Lusha is listed as if she was one of the main cast members of the show. I don't think she was ever on it, nor does her own Wiki page make any mention of ever being on Home Improvement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.166.34 (talk) 16:46, 24 May 2009 (UTC)


 * Good find, I did some research and couldn't find anything about her being on it either. Removing it. JeremyWJ (talk) 16:06, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Title
If home improvement is an article then Home Improvement must be an R from other capitalisation to it, or vice versa. In this case I am concerned that there seem to be about three times as many incoming links relating to the show than to the activity. I propose: (Note the moves require admin rights. Please do not use copy&paste.) &mdash; RHaworth 18:32, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * move home improvement to home renovation
 * move Home Improvement (TV series) to Home Improvement
 * tidy up hat notes, redirects and the disambig page.
 * I disagree. I think how the two articles are currently named is the best.  Also, this has already been discussed in the past and it was voted on to make it how it is today. You can see this by looking at the "Requested Move" section above.  Also it appears you previously moved this article without getting consent on it earlier and someone reverted it back.  Please be aware that is not really a good thing to do, you should get consent before moving. JeremyWJ (talk) 18:59, 17 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for pointing out the discussion. Please note that the real sinner was with this move. &mdash; RHaworth  22:13, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Excuse me? "Sinner"?  Powers T 14:16, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, "sinner" may be too emotive a term but you cannot deny that your move was flagrantly contrary to the clear consenus reached above. Also at fault was for doing the move and failing to change the resulting redirect. But more importantly, why is it that the five people who supported the move seem to have shown absolutely no interest in fixing the 500 links which still point to Home Improvement? &mdash; RHaworth  06:05, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It was, although at the time I moved it, I was unaware of the discussion. It seemed to me totally unnecessary disambiguation, so I never even questioned that there might be opposition.  Powers T 13:46, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Cleanup
In "The Relationship between Tim and Al":

"Al is reserved, though had much more knowledge, skill, and audience popularity than Tim." Somewhere, probably after this, needs to be pointed out that, "Although, as seen in [episode name], it is Tim's jokes that keep the show running, and Al's expertise and skill by itself results in a very unpopular show." or some words to that effect. Because there was an episode in which they switched places, due to Al's superior skill and knowledge, and Tim's habit of joking and ranting about his personal life, but the audience didn't like it.

In "The relationship between Tim and Wilson":

"Wilson broke his character's golden rule of not showing his full face in only one episode." 1. That doesn't belong in this section. It has nothing to do with Tim and Wilson's relationship. 2. It should end in, "in only one episode, [episode name]." for clarification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wind of Tomorrow (talk • contribs) 02:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Running Gags
Couple months ago, there was a section with the running gags of the show! Now I couldn't find it anymore! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.2.22.211 (talk • contribs)

I'm confused about this sentence in the Show Backgorund section....
"The cold opens in each episode that included one, which began being used in all episodes starting in season two, often opened with the show's main title logo within the teaser scene; from season four onward, the show began using an anthropomorphic version of the logo in the opening scenes, using various different animations."

Has something got a little lost there through some accidental editing? Or is it just my normal state of confusion showing through? HiLo48 (talk) 04:38, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
 * In either case it strikes me as being rather trivial unless this received third-party coverage... Doniago (talk) 14:41, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's probably trivial, but I can't be sure of that until I figure out what it actually means. Can anyone explain even the first part - "The cold opens in each episode that included one,..."? HiLo48 (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I think that part means that not every episode includes a cold open. Possible rephrasing (given I never watched the show on a regular basis and can't fact-check - "Beginning in season two, each episode begins with a cold open, often featuring the show's title logo within the teaser; from season four onward, an anthropomorphic version of the logo was used in the opening scenes, featuring different styles of animation." Doniago (talk) 17:27, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * You may well be right, but I feel I'm being confronted with some complicated TV production jargon that means little to the uninitiated masses (like me). Bits that bother me include cold open, title logo, teaser and anthropomorphic. To me they are not plain enough English. HiLo48 (talk) 23:05, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Ahhh...well, cold open is linkable and essentially means teaser...both mean the show essentially starts before the opening credits. Teaser leads to a DAB page so I wouldn't recommend linking it. Instead of title logo, perhaps opening intertitle where the latter term is linkable. Anthropomorphic means having human characteristics...the term redirects to anthropomorphism here. I understood it, but I'm a bit of an English snob, so a third opinion on whether it's too much jargon might be useful. But then, I'm still more concerned that without proper sourcing it's just trivia anyway. Doniago (talk) 03:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

rating
I do not understand why the article is showing in Category:Nielsen Ratings winners. I added a link to 1993–94 United States network television schedule, but the article does not support the claim that the show is a former number 1 show.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 08:28, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Please comment at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:12, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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syndication section cleaned up, 'refimprove' tag removed & references added
FYI: the syndication section was recently cleaned up with as many relevant citations added as possible. Accordingly, the 'refimprove' tag was removed. Some factual assertions without inline citations remain unchanged, because undoubtedly, they will continue to be unverifiable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueman90s (talk • contribs) 04:38, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Michigan college and university apparel
I have concerns that the table here essentially amounts to cruft and indiscriminate information. A table noting instances that specifically drew attention from third-party sources would be much more appropriate, I think. Can I please get additional opinions on this? DonIago (talk) 16:44, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Auto-archiving?
Anyone have an objection to my setting up auto-archiving for this page, say for threads that are over five years old? If I don't hear anything within a week or so I'll take it as tacit consent to do so. Thanks! DonIago (talk) 16:46, 15 June 2018 (UTC)