Talk:Homeostasis/Archive 1

Backwards Definitions?
The sentence "Examples of exothermic animals include mammals and birds, examples of endothermic animals include reptiles and some sea animals." contradict the definitions here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endotherm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotherm

which one is wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.170.123.249 (talk) 22:08, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Answer: Sorry I am new to wikipedia editing, so sorry if I don't conform to standards. I tried to reply to this, but this is they only space that I can find out how. The homeostasis page was incorrect and I corrected the page. Endotherms (hot-blooded) regulate their heat internally - exotherms (cold-blooded) must regulate via behavior such as basking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.54.109 (talk) 21:22, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Requesting picture !
Picture: The up, the down, the too far down I saw a graph of how stress affects the body, the body tries to compensate and bring it back to equilibrium, but if the stress remains it goes off the other end continually until it's effect is illness and then death. I'd really love to see that picture included in this article. I saw it in Health class, it's a central theme to the health system.Nastajus 02:03, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

homeostatis
Is homeostasis identical to homeostatis? See http://www.hyperdictionary.com/medical/homeostatis (anon)
 * "homoeostasis" and "homoeostatic" are both words, and both can be spelled with "homeo-" or "homoeo-". "stasis" is a noun, while "static" is an adjective.  I have never heard of "homeostatis", and suspect that there's a typo in that entry at hyperdictionary.com.  &mdash;AlanBarrett 20:52, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

homeostasis
Mammals maintain a thermal homeostasis, but they do it only be expending considerable amounts of energy. Would you consider this a handicap?

--203.51.251.130 08:47, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)ella

Repeated Vandalism
This topic has been subject to repeated vandalism by 148.234.56.74. Please consider deleting any posting by this author. Thanks. --Alphachimp 00:37, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Cogito umberto eco homo
The opening paragraph states that "the term was coined in 1932 by Walter Cannon from two Greek words (to remain the same)". I believe this would be better expressed as "from the Greek words homeo (to remain) and stasis (the same)", but I'm not an expert on Greek. As it stands, it reads like a bluff. -Ashley Pomeroy 11:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)


 * It's the other way 'round, but other than that, I agee. I went ahead and made the change.Jmeppley 17:28, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I thought that homeostasis = homeo (body, as in homo sapiens) + stasis (as in stationary). So it means keeping the body static, the same. Maintaining balance. Just a thought. 117.102.157.35 (talk) 12:22, 17 June 2008 (UTC) - The Latin homo (= 'man', as in homo sapiens) has nothing to do with the Greek homos (= 'the same', as in homogeneous), or homoios (= 'similar'). I guess that Cannon, if he knew Greek, formed the word homeostasis from 'homoios' and 'stasis', to mean something like 'staying similar'. 109.158.46.66 (talk) 23:43, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Clarification
On this article, the terms 'infradian' and 'ultradian' are defined, but they seem counterintuitive.

Now it may be that the author's use of "period = x" is actually correct in much the same way that frequency and period in a physics sense are respective inverses. The trouble is, this lends confusion.

It's also quite possible that the author has made a mistake and has accidentally transposed the two terms. I'm not certain enough to make an edit, but anyone who is could refer to the link below and ascertain the exact definition.

http://www.biology-online.org/dictionary/infradian


 * From MeSH at PubMed:
 * Periodicity: The tendency of a phenomenon to recur at regular intervals; in biological systems, the recurrence of certain activities (including hormonal, cellular, neural) may be annual, seasonal, monthly, daily, or more frequently (ultradian) [i.e., several times per day].
 * That is, e.g., 1 hr ~ ultradian; 1 day ~ circadian; 1 week ~ infradian.
 * Jclerman 17:07, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Enantiostasis
Anyone knowledgeable about this field, could you please help expand the article on Enantiostasis? I've been asked to create it, but I don't know much beyond the definition, so if any of you can help, I'd be very grateful. 99of9 05:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I am not sure what Enantiostasis is, but I would luike to see a definition of heterostasis go up as a companion to this entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.35.1 (talk) 00:26, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It is semen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.245.37.116 (talk) 21:34, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Ecological homeostasis - opposition
I'm not sure if it's worth including, but there's some opposition to the credibility of existence of ecological homestasis. Michael Chrichton's novel State of Fear is a an example (claiming the idea of homeostasis to be scientifically disproved in the 90s, but surviving as an idea for majority of the population). --82.139.47.117 22:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the above statement but would also add that the idea of homeostasis above the level of organism (e.g., an ecosystem) has also been challenged by many ecologists - not just pop science fiction writers like Crichton. Discussion on this began back in the 1970s. One example of a book by an ecologist on this topic is a 1990 book by Daniel Botkin: Discordant harmonies : a new ecology for the twenty-first century. Botkin challenges the "balance of nature" concept that has been embedded in Western thought (and perhaps other cultures but I haven't read widely outside that of Western scientists and historians of science).

how
Q: how is  body  weight controlled?

A: (Amusing) In Alberta, in the spring, the body weight of eagles is maintained by flight requirements. They eat all the newly emerged groundhogs (Richardson Ground Squirrels) they can until they can't fly anymore but have to waddle, and don't eat again until they lose enough weight to get airborne and chow down some more.

Oxygen levels in blood - by detecting CO2 buildup if I remember correctly.

Most homeostasis is by internal mechanisms - we probably don't know enough about Leptin (released by fat cells) and Ghrelin to say precisely how that works yet. Ndaniels 17:38, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Two possible definitions of "risk homeostasis"
Two apparent definitions of "risk homeostasis" - can someone clarify - (and applying that term to ecology)

Apparently one, maybe the original, was the idea that safety features actually result in riskier behavior and substantially more accidents. I believe this was asserted a generation ago, but in what I've read, this doesn't seem to be the present common usage of "risk homeostasis" - this previous assertion seems not to be true, at least not over the long run.

Nowadays I keep seeing "risk homeostasis" used to indicate the homeostatic maintenance of a given level of risk. This latter meaning is, I believe, very consistent with the original concept and continuing research - and pretty much unobjectionable whether you want to discuss balding tires, putting five-year-olds on horses for a parade (recent news story of a death in Texas) or CO2 buildup. On this reading, risk homeostasis isn't dramatically different than any other kind of biologically maintained homeostasis. Ndaniels 17:39, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

i dont know
i dont know what this conversation/argument has turned in to, but it is my belief that this is arguing weather we should combine 2 articles, i am a student that is searching for homeostasis info. and would probly find it easier if they stayed seproite, just my opinion so dont take it to seriously —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tri-edge of the azura flame (talk • contribs) 15:31, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

ok, never mind
i went to reactive homeostasis to see the article, i dont think its big enough to really be alone, so i NOW think it would be fine to merge, its soo small! so forget the last comment by me —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tri-edge of the azura flame (talk • contribs) 15:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

Editing Homeostasis page
Hi All, There are 3 of us college students in Anatomy and Physiolgy that have the project of editing this page. We have never< done this before and will do the best we can, but any help, advice or comments will surely be appreciated. Thanks, --Omurphy 05:01, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Homeostasis
A moderate point of physical and psycological stability. To acheive homeostasis one must consider also the importance of motivation. Not only is it neccessary to fullfill basic needs for saeity and replenishment it is also nesseccary to equalize levels of energetic proportion. To regain a renewed homeostatic equilibrium one must either exert or refrain.-Hines2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.218.86 (talk) 18:22, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

OMG
Homeostasis is a comfort zone in which the body is in balance with the mind. Nothing more. Not very complex until you describe the many ways in acheiving HOMEOSTASIS. foreal! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.218.86 (talk) 18:39, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Referance Freuds LIBIDO assertions find the mean existence and you have defined Homeostasis
DORKS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.218.86 (talk) 18:43, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Possibly False Etymology
I believe the explanation of the Greek word 'histemi' as literally meaning 'to stand equally' is incorrect. I think that a physiologist did this using a dictionary and was mislead by the is- part in "istemi" [sic], as isos means equal in Greek. However, it's "histemi", not "istemi", and it's the basic Greek word for merely "to stand", "to put" without any added complexity of "equally" etc. (it possesses reduplication in the present tense, that's why it has an added hi-). I will correct all of this now. --RokasT (talk) 09:58, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Spider picture
Can we please change the picture of the spider to something less creepy like a frog or something? --124.254.77.148 (talk) 13:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Human homeostasis
I propose that Human homeostasis is merged here since all its contents is more general than to any physiology that is specific to humans. Also the associated category of Human homeostasis is not specific in its categorized processes to humans. An alternative idea is that Human homeostasis is deleted as duplicating the content of Homeostasis.--LittleHow (talk) 10:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.203.218.111 (talk) 03:24, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Definition + Walter Bradford Cannon
I'm unclear about what Cannon defined. Did Cannon invent the word, "homeostasis"? Or did he provide the first definition of the concept?

The footnote about the definition links to a 1970 book by von Bertalanfly, not to a work by Cannon. I looked at the van Bertalanfly article and I don't see how it relates to homeostasis. Please explain. NinetyNineFennelSeeds (talk) 02:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Gut homeostatis: too technical
The paragraph that starts with Another homeostatic regulation occurs in the gut reads like the abstract of a peer-reviewed scientific article, it is way too technical and complex and brings nothing to the understanding of the concept of homeostatis. Is there a formal way to flag this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.16.247.154 (talk) 18:13, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 14:58, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

Carbon Dioxide
Atmospheric-magnitude CO2 is sequestered via the carbon-silicate cycle. The 'plants will absorb it' claim is not observed nor supported. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.167.109.26 (talk) 23:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Serious re-work needed
This article is confused and muddled throughout, and contains a number of inaccuracies. I shall start a process of tidying it up and would appreciate additional suggestions for improvement. DaveApter (talk) 14:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

positive feedback?
I think the reference to positive feedback as a possible homeostatic process is mistaken and confused. It is certainly contrary to anything I have read on the subject. Positive feedback drives the system state away from the target value not towards it. So I have removed the comments about this. If anyone has reliable sources which contradict this, please cite them and provide links or exact quotations to back it up. Thanks. DaveApter (talk) 14:50, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I think this section is well enough written that it clearly doesn't imply that. The question is, does explaining nearby terms that could be confused, and how they are distinct from homeostasis, help with a broader understanding of what is and is not within the scope of homeostasis?  That's a much broader and less clear question. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:11, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Revision of article
I have revised and largely rewritten and re-arranged the article, which contained many repetitions and contradictions, as well as matters not pertaining to homeostasis. There were many errors, confusion and misunderstandings. My initial attempts to patch the article up simply led to a very untidy mess of more repetitions, and further confusion. I hope this revision finds favor with the readers (and controllers), who, I hope will tidy up and further correct anything that has been overlooked. Cruithne9 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:57, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You have done an outstanding job of improving this article. It used to be a real mess, and I tried to clean it up a couple of years ago, but you have brought real quality to it. Thank you. DaveApter (talk) 08:38, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the compliment Cruithne9 (talk) 06:06, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

What does the human body use as its absolute temperature reference standard?
What is the absolute temperature reference standard that human bodies use as the target value for the core body temperature hemostat? Phrased differently, how does our body know what 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit is? I understand the body uses homeostasis to regulate toward the ideal temperature set point, but what reference standard is used as that set point? --Lbeaumont (talk) 11:33, 14 December 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure whether you are asking why 98.6°F (37°C) is the preferred core body temperature of most mammals, most of the time, or how that temperature is measured by the hypothalamic and other temperature sensors and then responded to act as a "thermostat".


 * The answer to the first question is an evolutionary one. The first mammals developed this body temperature probably because it provided an acceptable compromise between faster metabolic reactions (caused by a temperature higher than the ambient temperature at the time), and the increased rate of enzyme denaturation at this high temperature; as well as the higher food intake this persistently higher than the ambient temperature, this body temperature requires. By regulating it homeostatically it gave the creature a much greater freedom to move about, hunt, graze, migrate etc. irrespective of the weather conditions. This is in contrast to reptiles who have to spend the hottest part of the day in the shade, and succumb to torpor when it is very cold. They therefore have a much narrower window (of environmental temperatures) to perform the activities that keep them alive. Birds, and probably the dinosaurs, have body temperatures in the mammalian range too - two or three degrees (Celcius) higher than those of mammals in the case of the birds (and maybe of the dinosaurs - though no one obviously knows what their body temperatures were). So it seems that the approximately 37-40°C temperature of the body core evolved a very long time ago, and has proved its worth over 100-200 million years in very many different circumstances, over a vast period of time.


 * The answer to the second question is not known. We have temperature sensors in our skin and we can tell whether the air temperature (or that of an object touching the skin) is comfortable, tolerable or "too hot" or "too cold". That judgement is made in the brain on the basis of the information it receives from the many billions (or trillions) of different types of temperature sensors in the skin. Precisely how the sensors work (i.e. the mechanism of their activity) is not known, neither do we know how the brain evaluates the information received from these sensors. But then how does our brain evaluate any of the information it receives? How does it pronounce a certain painting "pleasing" or fascinating to see, or the difference between a delicious meal and one that is just mediocre (etc. etc.) Our knowledge of neurophysiology has not advanced far enough for us to know the answers to these interesting questions in terms of neuronal activity. I hope that addresses your query and puts it into perspective. Cruithne9 (talk) 08:09, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks! This is helpful. --Lbeaumont (talk) 15:18, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Irregular use of symbols
It is not the norm for symbols used in Gas exchange section to be used in prose. See same concern on Breathing talk page. --Iztwoz (talk) 10:52, 19 June 2017 (UTC)--Iztwoz (talk) 10:52, 19 June 2017 (UTC)

Contrast with heterostasis
A dictionary definition of heterostasis that appears on the web describes heterostasis as motivation of the body in adaptation to change. Could this term be introduced in to this article to show how it contrasts with homoeostasis? Vorbee (talk) 19:27, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Use of term of homeostat
This use introduced on June 2 2016 is used throughout article and needs a clear reference to its use as seems to be OR. All sources that i know of use homeostatic mechanism etc. - homeostat like thermostat seem to be the preserve of technological use - also as per searched definitions. Also its first use on the page is attributed to an already given ref of a 1932 publication and therefore doubt its validity. --Iztwoz (talk) 21:50, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Predictive homeostasis
Page contains more info on Homeostasis than on the few lines relevant to Predictive homeostasis Iztwoz (talk) 06:25, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

image added to blood PH section
Hello, Have added an image to the blood PH section as part of a uni project. Any comments or feedback please let me know. Happy to change or edit based on discussion.

Thank Jacobgriffo16 (talk) 10:40, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Helpful file - thanks --Iztwoz (talk) 13:18, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

how
How fast is evolution on homeostatic relevant genes compared to other genes in organisms? - CooperOfford (talk) 21:57, 26 January 2021 (UTC). how is  body  weight or oxygen tension controlled?

control center
"The control center responds to the signal by determining an appropriate response" In the section containing this part, I need a description of the control center that describes its function. The control center compares inputs to control references (or setpoints; see Control theory) which are the fixed, relevant natural laws or facts that give meaning to inputs, in order to produce outputs (meanings or conclusions, governing which way to act). Again, what is lacking in the article is the identification of the elements of the control center, i.e. the control references and the action of comparing the inputs to the control references to produce the outputs. Rtdrury (talk) 13:36, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Science
Homotasis 136.158.58.72 (talk) 04:41, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Gaia
Lovelock's widely ridiculed "Gaia Hypothesis" is mentioned here as an example. It should be removed. The atmosphere, climate, and ecology of Earth are *clearly* not homeostatic. (If they were, we'd be breathing methane.) I don't have any problem with claims that biological individuals act in such a way as to prolong their lives (in order to reproduce) and that these actions include adapting to *small* changes in their environment. OTOH, many, if not most, species of eukaryotic life have (short) lives which are defined by CHANGES of their physiology and metabolism (i.e. growth, puberty, senescence, pregnancy, desertification, eutrophication, etc.,etc.). Adding a scientifically unsound semi-religious meme as an example is inappropriate.207.155.85.22 (talk) 03:41, 26 April 2022 (UTC)