Talk:Homosexuality in American football

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 January 2019 and 17 March 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): TracyTyler919.

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Notability
Is this topic sufficiently noteworthy to merit an article?Royalcourtier (talk) 03:19, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it does, since it passes the general notability guideline, as it has reliable sources, and is featured in non-trivial coverage.  Zappa  O  Mati   03:33, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

While the topic of homosexuality in sports is a valid one, the specific homosexuality in football" article does not meet the standards for its own article.  This belongs has a part of the main topic. "Homosexuality in Sports"  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.92.162.13 (talk) 23:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Though the Sports page is a page discussing the general topic of homosexuality in sports. This page provides more in-depth coverage of homosexuality in football, which appears to be more controversial than usual. Same could also apply to Homosexuality in English football.  Zappa  O  Mati   23:19, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Per WP:SUMMARY, large topics are broken up into smaller topics. Thus, Homosexuality in sports could deal with the subject at a high level, and individual sports can be dealt with in a more detailed article.  With the number of sources that deal with football-specific  issues, WP:GNG is satisfied for a standalone article.—Bagumba (talk) 04:39, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Goodell on sexual discrimination
There was a recent revert on Goodell's statement, changing "sexual discrimination" to a generic "discrimination." His exact quote was "Discrimination and harassment based on sexual orientation is not consistent with our values and is unacceptable in the National Football League." This is a specific statement on sexual discrimination, not a blanket statement on all discrimination. The edit summary on the revert was "Rv. It's not about sexism. Why would you revert to it being about sexism?" Perhaps the confusion was due to the Sexual discrimination page currently being a redirect to Sexism? I would suggest the wording be changed back to "sexual discrimination" to accurately reflect Goodell's statement. Any issues with the redirect should be handled at Sexual discrimination, not by altering the statement here.—Bagumba (talk) 00:12, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I've updated Sexual discrimination to redirect to Sexualism instead of Sexism, which should address the original concern. I'll change this article back to "sexual discrimination" per Goodell's actual statement.  Feel free to discuss any further concerns.—Bagumba (talk) 00:38, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

publicly out
We have several statements about the "first publicly out" player. I don't object to the inclusion of these players, but I am not sure we should be qualifying them that way. Just because they may be the first players to get coverage for being gay, does not mean they are actually the first "publicly out" players. others may have been publicly out before but just not attracted notice. The gendraeu source specifically discusses that that was his situation, so who is to know there aren't others. The articles are making no claims as to "first" but merely "first noted". We should no be adding with WP:OR Gaijin42 (talk) 15:56, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe all the "firsts" in the article are reliably sourced. If and when new sources report a new fact, the article would be updated.  If there are other minority opinions or theories on who is "first", they are handled via WP:NPOV.  Note that the "firsts" are regarding "publicly out" players i.e. those that have been publicly reported in reliable sources.  It does not include people that might be out to their family/friends, but have not been reported to the public.  I believe this is the case with Alan Gendreau that you were worried about.—Bagumba (talk) 19:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * What source defines "publicly out" as getting reported in reliable sources? Thats notability which is not the same thing as public. If everyone in the town or school knows, but nobody called a newspaper about it, its still "public". Perhaps it is being confused for "publicized" or "published" but that is an entirely different idea. Frankly Gendreau is getting the short end of the stick here as he very well seems to have been publicly out while playing at the college level - but nobody cared. Ironically, isn't that somewhat the long-term goal? That his orientation is not a factor - just how he plays. Gaijin42 (talk) 20:05, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * We can only write about what is in sources; WP is not here to right great wrongs on what has not been reported. See baseball player Glenn Burke's story.  He wanted his story public, but allegedly nobody wanted to report it.  Thus, the majority opinion currently is that Jason Collins is the first male American in a major sport league to be publicly out. We can't change that the general public did not know about Gendreau or Burke.  Perhaps you can offer suggestions on specific changes you are proposing in the article.—Bagumba (talk) 20:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm not trying to right great wrongs. I'm saying that we are making up the definition of "public" to mean "notably widely publicized" which is not the same thing. "Gendreau has been openly gay since high school in Apopka, Fla., and he did not disguise his sexuality when he arrived at Middle Tennessee State — which might have led to notice as the first out player in major college football, had anyone noted the historic cultural relevance." The article says nobody noticed, not that it wasn't public.  In fact, the article states he was the first out player. Public does not mean "talked to the media". Us adding that bit in is WP:OR. Gaijin42 (talk) 20:43, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding OR concerns, "Mizzou's Michael Sam says he's gay" from ESPN says "Conner Mertens, a kicker for Willamette University, last month became the first active college football player in the U.S. to come out publicly." That implies that Gendreau was not publicly out, just out. Also consider "In Historic Pick, Rams Take Michael Sam in Final Round of Draft" from The New York Times, which wrote that Michael Sam "was also the first publicly gay player waiting to be drafted." This seems to accurately reflect that others may have been out in the past that the general public was unaware of, but Sam is the first one drafted whose orientation is public.  The use of "public" in the WP article seems consistent with the ones identified in these aforementioned sources. —Bagumba (talk) 21:01, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Notability
I'm having trouble figuring this out, and I hope this is the right place for it.

Theodore Lisoski, who plays Cornerback for the Portland Pit Bulls, came out recently. However, that seems to be the only article about this, and there are no articles about the Portland Pit Bulls, nor their league, the Pacific Football League. The league is Semi-pro, which may be part of why.

My big question is, can Theodore be added to the "have come out" list, or is he "not notable enough"? Farfromunique (talk) 05:15, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

I think he is notable, he may not be an NFL player, or play for NCAA D1 teams,but he does play semi-pro football for at least 4 years. Mattman0726 (talk) 22:49, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Plus he does have a YouTube blog with ~5000 subscribers. Mattman0726 (talk) 22:50, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 19 external links on Homosexuality in American football. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/os-george-diaz-kicker-alan-gendreau-0428-20130427%2C0%2C6684488.column
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9315650/former-offensive-tackle-kwame-harris-opens-six-year-nfl-career-spent-closet-espn-magazine
 * Added tag to http://gawker.com/former-pro-football-player-reflects-on-brokeback-romanc-1506826397
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://nfl.si.com/2013/04/23/alan-gendreau-trying-to-make-nfl-as-openly-gay-kicker/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--chris-culliver-s-remarks--manti-te-o-episode-make-it-hard-for-active-gay-athlete-to-go-public-194711778.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9400228/nfl-rookie-symposium-include-speakers-issue-sexual-orientation
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10232522/chris-kluwe-former-member-minnesota-vikings-says-was-cut-due-views
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2013/12/two-members-of-1993-oilers-were-gay-teammates-knew-didnt-care/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.outsports.com/2011/8/24/4051720/moment-43-brian-sims-tells-his-story-nine-years-later
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/10364727/conner-mertens-willamette-university-bearcats-comes-tells-teammates-bisexual
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/otl/world/day2_part1.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-03-02/sports/37384385_1_sexual-orientation-first-openly-gay-player-nfl-teams
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/mike-freeman/22097516/team-knew-of-gay-nfl-player-last-season-and-didnt-care
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9137573/brendon-ayanbadejo-says-four-players-considering-coming-gay
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/24/n-f-l-will-advise-teams-on-discrimination-policy/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/11/sports/football/michael-sam-picked-by-st-louis-rams-in-nfl-draft.html?_r=1
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/michael-sam-is-1st-openly-gay-man-to-play-in-cfl-regular-season-game-1.3183929
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090217172249/http://www.outsports.com/difference/gallagher.htm to http://www.outsports.com/difference/gallagher.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8892463/kwame-harris-former-san-francisco-49er-charged-former-boyfriend-beating
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130115104425/http://www.outsports.com/os/index.php/component/content/article/43-2009/228-former-college-football-captain-was-openly-gay to http://www.outsports.com/os/index.php/component/content/article/43-2009/228-former-college-football-captain-was-openly-gay

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Title change
I think the title: "LGBTQ+ Community Within American Football" would be a more accurate title for the article. Zach arias 777 (talk) 20:24, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There's also other similar titles at Category:Sexual orientation and sports that could be discussed together.—Bagumba (talk) 02:46, 21 April 2022 (UTC)